[justjim]

Originally Posted by Gerald

I have a trained service dog. He is small only 6 lbs. his job is to help people and kids in the hospital. He wears a service dog I'd and jacket when in service mode. He is trained to be playful or be held and petted for long periods of time. Giving comfort to those that need it. Could I bring him with me everyplace. Yes I could, of course I don't. Out in the sun on that hot floor with a bunch of drunk people at the square, LOL

Also people should not be asking questions about what a service dog is for. Both the dog and owner have privacy laws . All stores know this as does the airlines. To fly with a service dog you must also have a signed paper showing that the service dog has been approved by a doctor.

You can get into a very big legal issue if you start doing what you did. People normally do not tell others what the function of a service dog is. That is why they have a tag and service dog jacket. When you see it. You do not have the right to challenge if the dog is or is not a service dog. There will always be some who take advantage. That is part of life.
The same thing goes for handicap stickers for cars. Stop judging others so much and you will enjoy life a lot more.
You can't tell if a person is handicap just by looking at them.

The problem (real or not) is being able to determine if the dog is a trained service dog. The local government entity (partially why we pay taxes) should issue a tag ,following proof by the owner, that the dog has indeed been TRAINED as a Service Dog. I'm sure restaurant management would like this as it takes the pressure off them with other restaurant customers. It's unfair to put them (management) in the middle.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by borjo

Many reasons the dog may be needed in Ace Hardware. They may be used to sense low or high blood sugars, detect seizures before they happen, help their owner get up after a fall etc. It's hard for us to judge why they are needed, but is it our business?

Detect blood sugar??----a 15# dog in a pouch on your chest or a 3 oz. glucometer in your pocket---which makes more sense??

Detect a seizure in advance----not possible, the dog is just sensing the very early start of a seizure already underway, and you'll know you're having one about 10 seconds later

How does a 7# rug rat help someone get up?????

If there is legitimate training for these dogs and evidence that they are superior to standard methodology, I'm all ears. But I am willing to bet 90+% of dogs that supposedly perform these tasks are just along for the ride. I think the exception in public places for service dogs should be restricted to TRUE service dogs, lest the tide turns and the people who really need these animals come up short.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Detect blood sugar??----a 15# dog in a pouch on your chest or a 3 oz. glucometer in your pocket---which makes more sense??

Detect a seizure in advance----not possible, the dog is just sensing the very early start of a seizure already underway, and you'll know you're having one about 10 seconds later

How does a 7# rug rat help someone get up?????

If there is legitimate training for these dogs and evidence that they are superior to standard methodology, I'm all ears. But I am willing to bet 90+% of dogs that supposedly perform these tasks are just along for the ride. I think the exception in public places for service dogs should be restricted to TRUE service dogs, lest the tide turns and the people who really need these animals come up short.

[duffysmom]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Well, let's take them in order.

1. MY Beagle doesn't bark when someone comes to the door. I can't speak for anyone else's dog.

2. You assume things that are not in evidence. That is that with the Service Dog vest they can take the dog all of the places that you list. The fact is that the vest is not an automatic pass. The various businesses can inquire whether or not the dog is a service dog and what the service is that the dog provides. (That's about all that can be asked.) And, if, as you observe, the service is only performed at home, the service dog does not get service dog protection at the businesses.

3. How is taking the dog to the Squares wearing its vest "gaming the system?" Any dog on a leash is allowed in the Squares.

4. It is possible that your wife is correct. The owners did not want the dog to be the target of well intentioned people who would want to pet the dog.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by justjim

The problem (real or not) is being able to determine if the dog is a trained service dog. The local government entity (partially why we pay taxes) should issue a tag ,following proof by the owner, that the dog has indeed been TRAINED as a Service Dog. I'm sure restaurant management would like this as it takes the pressure off them with other restaurant customers. It's unfair to put them (management) in the middle.

First, note that the general public has no standing to challenge whether or not a dog is a "true service dog." Nor is there anything in the federal ADA law, or in Florida law that provides for (or requires) any sign, tag, harness, or vest, to indicate that a dog is a service dog.

Only the operator of an establishment has standing to challenge whether or not a dog accompanying a person is a service dog. And only two questions may be asked. 1. Is this a service dog? 2. What service does it provide? There can be no in depth inquiry into the disability of the person who has the dog. If the service provided does not seem to apply to the situation, the operator can ask the person to remove the dog.

Alas, I don't foresee any changes in these long established laws just because retirees in The Villages are lying or confused about what constitutes a genuine service dog..........or just don't care.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by wisbad1

what service does a mini horse provide? Mini manure? I've been in Publix at deli counter when some idiot carries her ankle bitter in and stands by open food,they don't say anything to her,don't wanna make a scene, I find it sickening, I love dogs,wouldn't bring my dog in a food store.

How about your horse? As you apparently know, miniature horses can also be official Service Animals. They work in much the same manner as Guide Dogs for the Blind.

City Faces Lawsuit Over Girl's Mini Horse Service Animal | HuffPost
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.Yeah, the photo below is a service horse on a commercial airplane.
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[KakiOmmm]

I believe some people use the system to keep their pets with them when they go somewhere...if that makes them feel better then maybe that's a good thing. Shouldn't we all be able to feel better? Why not give everyone a break and live and let live? I help with service dog training and they are real service dogs. I suppose I could be questioned about any dog I am working with, since I don't have a disability and am not a veteran, but I continue to hope for the goodness of humanity and less judgement of other people's lives.

[Bonny]

Originally Posted by KakiOmmm

I believe some people use the system to keep their pets with them when they go somewhere...if that makes them feel better then maybe that's a good thing. Shouldn't we all be able to feel better? Why not give everyone a break and live and let live? I help with service dog training and they are real service dogs. I suppose I could be questioned about any dog I am working with, since I don't have a disability and am not a veteran, but I continue to hope for the goodness of humanity and less judgement of other people's lives.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by KakiOmmm

I believe some people use the system to keep their pets with them when they go somewhere...if that makes them feel better then maybe that's a good thing. Shouldn't we all be able to feel better? Why not give everyone a break and live and let live? I help with service dog training and they are real service dogs. I suppose I could be questioned about any dog I am working with, since I don't have a disability and am not a veteran, but I continue to hope for the goodness of humanity and less judgement of other people's lives.

Surely you don't mean to imply that people should be able to do things that make them "feel good".
Maybe someone would feel good about swimming nude in a family pool, or getting drunk in a bar and starting a brawl, or driving 90 mph on 466.

True service dogs like the ones you train are an invaluable asset to those in need, and thank you for doing this. But pawning a little rug rat off as a service animal is a disservice to those with legitimate needs. Even people with allergies to dogs are willing to tolerate a seeing eye dog, but why should dozens of people in the vicinity have to tolerate the behaviors of others that "make them feel good"?

[tikigal]

Service dogs can be used for a multitude of reasons. Although it's only an opinion, if an animal is used for hearing, why would you take it to the square, where the music is so loud, it is 50 times louder for a dog. This could contribute to not only hearing loss in humans but in dogs. But again, it's only a question, or is it a red flag to let them know that dogs hearing can be impaired with constant loud noises. Maybe they truly never thought of that, and just don't know any better, but it is Better discussed with a licensed Vet.

I never understood why people always ask what someone's service dog does, as it isn't really there business and can be very embarrassing for the person owning the service animal. How many times a day do you hear this from people. Just try sitting down next to one having coffee outside with their dog sometime, it doesn't stop. I have nothing but empathy for the disabled human berated by people asking them personal health questions. If a person is in a wheelchair, do you ask them what is wrong with you? Of course not. Best to be polite, and just smile and be compassionate of others with a problem they may not want to discuss with the general public.

Most service animals accompany their humans every where they go, as they are part of the "package", so sometimes, it isn't a good idea to criticise, they may be on vacation and just visiting the Villages. Most service dogs are constant companions of their humans, regardless of where they go, but it is also the owner that must understand the limitations of a dog or the risk you may put it in, such as walking your dog in the middle of the afternoon on hot pavement. There are people we know that don't go places, because they do have a service dog, and need it full time. Life is full of adjustments.

Sometimes, it's just best to close the book on other people's disabilities. as our job is really to love our neighbors as ourselves. The "why's", we just have to let go of sometimes.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Surely you don't mean to imply that people should be able to do things that make them "feel good".
Maybe someone would feel good about swimming nude in a family pool, or getting drunk in a bar and starting a brawl, or driving 90 mph on 466.

True service dogs like the ones you train are an invaluable asset to those in need, and thank you for doing this. But pawning a little rug rat off as a service animal is a disservice to those with legitimate needs. Even people with allergies to dogs are willing to tolerate a seeing eye dog, but why should dozens of people in the vicinity have to tolerate the behaviors of others that "make them feel good"?

Well said!

[borjo]

Originally Posted by wiotte

i'm not sure when this happened, i guess i wasn't paying attention. At what point in our society did the distance between man and beast become blurred. I love my dog and i keep a definite boundary between the dog and me, it's master. I do not tolerate my dog on furniture which includes the bed, uggh. Any business that needs to be done is done outside. None of that wee wee pad nonsense, really ? Only human pigs allow this. When it comes time to put my dog down, he goes down. I will not spend $15k to extend it's life for another 6 months. At the end, i will dig a hole 6' deep and place my beloved companion wrapped in his favorite blanket and place him at the bottom of his final resting spot. Along with his favorite toys. As i backfill his new home i'll think of all the good times we had together knowing that the distance we kept between us was healthy for both of us, for i'm his master and he the dog.

like

[borjo]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1434146]Detect blood sugar??----a 15# dog in a pouch on your chest or a 3 oz. glucometer in your pocket---which makes more sense??

Detect a seizure in advance----not possible, the dog is just sensing the very early start of a seizure already underway, and you'll know you're having one about 10 seconds later

How does a 7# rug rat help someone get up?????

If there is legitimate training for these dogs and evidence that they are superior to standard methodology, I'm all ears. But I am willing to bet 90+% of dogs that supposedly perform these tasks are just along for the ride. I think the exception in public places for service dogs should be restricted to TRUE service dogs, lest the tide turns and the people who really need these animals come up short.[/QUOTE]

#1. A brittle diabetic gets fluctuations very quickly and often cannot recognize when he's too low with the brain fog they get. Grandson was offered a dog.
#2. The seizure service dog alerts the owner of his impending seizure so the person can lie down, protecting them from injury in a fall.
#3. A 7# rug rat wouldn't be able to help someone get up of course, but a full grown lab could. Saw one.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by borjo

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1434146]Detect blood sugar??----a 15# dog in a pouch on your chest or a 3 oz. glucometer in your pocket---which makes more sense??

Detect a seizure in advance----not possible, the dog is just sensing the very early start of a seizure already underway, and you'll know you're having one about 10 seconds later

How does a 7# rug rat help someone get up?????

If there is legitimate training for these dogs and evidence that they are superior to standard methodology, I'm all ears. But I am willing to bet 90+% of dogs that supposedly perform these tasks are just along for the ride. I think the exception in public places for service dogs should be restricted to TRUE service dogs, lest the tide turns and the people who really need these animals come up short.

#1. A brittle diabetic gets fluctuations very quickly and often cannot recognize when he's too low with the brain fog they get. Grandson was offered a dog.
#2. The seizure service dog alerts the owner of his impending seizure so the person can lie down, protecting them from injury in a fall.
#3. A 7# rug rat wouldn't be able to help someone get up of course, but a full grown lab could. Saw one.[/QUOTE]

And for every service dog that TRULY fits category 1 & 2, there are how many frauds?????.
The training required would be truly amazing----let's see, get a bunch of people with seizure disorders, hold their meds, induce seizures and then train the dogs as to early signs that the dog, and only the dog can sense??? Induce hypoglycemia in an insulin dependent diabetic just to train dogs??? Maybe it is possible, but I have my doubts. Anyone remember "facilitation"????

As far as falls go, I've fallen, maybe you've fallen, and millions of us have fallen. So I guess we all need a big dog wherever we go. Oh, wait, there are OTHER PEOPLE around to help in those places. The only time the dog is needed is when the owner is ALONE---like at home, which is where they should leave the dog

I've already posted how valuable TRUE service dogs are; I am concerned over some "fringe" uses and the frauds negatively impacting those with true need

PS. Please feel free to "educate" me about diabetes and seizure disorders any time you like

[graciegirl]

One should always try to be considerate of others. We can't expect people to love our children or our pets like we do, but many find that hard to understand or even consider. The world can't always revolve around our needs and our loves and our passions and our interests.


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