[tomwed]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Agree with width of SUV----my Enclave is 89 inches edge of mirror to edge of mirror

Agree with 3 feet to pass

agree 36 + 90 =126 or 10 1/2 feet

but 10 1/2 + 1 1/2 is 12 except in common core math

But we still need to know the actual width of the lanes on BV and Morse

I went to Eisenhower, parked and paced BV. The both lanes together including the stripe in the middle is 20 ft.
Won't anyone else like to measure it?

[alzjr]

The lanes have been measured and they are only 11 feet wide. Not enough room for a car and bicycle at the same time

[golfing eagles]

Just measured Morse opposite Sarasota range---each lane, white line to center line is 12 feet. But this is absolutely the bare minimum width, IMHO, for safety. And that assumes a "good" driver and a "good" cyclist, which may be far and few between here. So, with all the FACTS in, even though the lanes are not "substandard", I think cyclists who are going to ride 25+ mph should exercise their right to "own the lane" as it is called. Might not need to do this if you see a mini-cooper coming up on you, but anything larger would put their safety at risk. If you are going to ride 15 mph, do the motorists, and your serious cycling cohorts a favor and stay on the MMPs. So in summary, my opinion would be that 14 feet and wider lanes, wherever that may be, follow the law and stay right. 12 feet and under, obey the law and "own the lane". Perhaps the Florida legislature could clear up section 5 posted above. Mia culpa to my cycling friends, they were right all along, even if it might have been for the wrong reason. Happy Trails!!!

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by alzjr

a majority of auto drivers comply ---- Wrong

bike riders do violate every rule of the road and intentionally most of the time ------ Wrong

Prove it if it's wrong, saying it does not make it so, bike riders especially older ones wobble all over the place and it's hard to miss a moving target. They don't even stop coming out of tunnels, have had 2 near misses and both because the bicycle did not stop for a posted stop sign where they were coming out of a tunnel.

[perrjojo]

As a former cyclist I can tell you why they often don't stop at traffic lights and stop signs. It's for the same reason that many in golf carts don't stop. When approaching an intersection at a low rate of speed you can easily see if there is traffic coming. Yes, I know the law says stop but......well, there you go.

Maybe instead of share the road a sign should say...Be Kind to your neighbors. Didn't your Mother teach you that sharing is the right thing to do?

[biker1]

Like clockwork, this issue keeps reappearing every couple of month. Thanks for your post.

Originally Posted by alzjr

The lanes have been measured and they are only 11 feet wide. Not enough room for a car and bicycle at the same time

[biker1]

Look people, this is not that difficult. Most serious riders are about 1-2 feet inside the white line on the side of the road. You can't hug the extreme right side of the lane because it is dangerous to be there. The roads in the The Villages are not wide enough for a car, a bike, and the required 3 feet of clearance. This requires cars to pass in the other lane as a car and a bike cannot coexist in the sub-standard width lanes with the required 3 feet of clearance. Again, most cyclist are in the right third of the lane but cars need to move into the other lane to pass in a safe, lawful manner. You will often see cyclist move from the right most third of the lane to the center of the lanes. This is for safety reasons. This will often occur near the roundabouts and on two lane road on a curve with a double solid line. Again, this is for safely reasons. This is not rocket science. Give cyclists a wide birth and pass in a lawful manner (move to the left lane).

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Just measured Morse opposite Sarasota range---each lane, white line to center line is 12 feet. But this is absolutely the bare minimum width, IMHO, for safety. And that assumes a "good" driver and a "good" cyclist, which may be far and few between here. So, with all the FACTS in, even though the lanes are not "substandard", I think cyclists who are going to ride 25+ mph should exercise their right to "own the lane" as it is called. Might not need to do this if you see a mini-cooper coming up on you, but anything larger would put their safety at risk. If you are going to ride 15 mph, do the motorists, and your serious cycling cohorts a favor and stay on the MMPs. So in summary, my opinion would be that 14 feet and wider lanes, wherever that may be, follow the law and stay right. 12 feet and under, obey the law and "own the lane". Perhaps the Florida legislature could clear up section 5 posted above. Mia culpa to my cycling friends, they were right all along, even if it might have been for the wrong reason. Happy Trails!!!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by biker1

Look people, this is not that difficult. Most serious riders are about 1-2 feet inside the white line on the side of the road. You can't hug the extreme right side of the lane because it is dangerous to be there. The roads in the The Villages are not wide enough for a car, a bike, and the required 3 feet of clearance. This requires cars to pass in the other lane as a car and a bike cannot coexist in the sub-standard width lanes with the required 3 feet of clearance. Again, most cyclist are in the right third of the lane but cars need to move into the other lane to pass in a safe, lawful manner. You will often see cyclist move from the right most third of the lane to the center of the lanes. This is for safety reasons. This will often occur near the roundabouts and on two lane road on a curve with a double solid line. Again, this is for safely reasons. This is not rocket science. Give cyclists a wide birth and pass in a lawful manner (move to the left lane).

and given what I just posted, you are 100% right. So all motorists, please watch out for you neighbor

Originally Posted by outlaw

A bit of biased misinformation. In FL, I think the laws state that a cyclist is required to ride as far to the right of the lane as safely as possible. It does not say that the cyclist is supposed to force passing autos into the other lane by riding near the center line. If you want courtesy from drivers, be a courteous rider.

A cyclist with common sense.

I've tried to ride as close to the curb as possible but I almost got knocked off my bike too many times.As stated previously Buena Vista & Morse aren't wide enough to have 2 cars & a bike abreast of each other.There are way too many motorists that feel they have to stay in the right lane no matter the situation. So for my safety I force them to use the left lane to pass.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Well, it is section 5, right above section 6 that you are citing:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Read it again. Per your own link, what I highlighted in BOLD is not.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by biker1

Figure it out yourself, unless you are challenged.

Busted!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

This isn't the first thread along these lines, so at risk of incurring the ire of cyclists, let's bring some clarity to this thread:

First of all, bicycles are vehicles and have the right to use the roads, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW. I'm all in favor of safety, cyclists are much more at risk for injury than a car. However, in the spirit of sharing the road, there are RESPONSIBILITIES that go along with cyclists RIGHTS.

The link provided is to a cyclist association page, the "information" is NOT THE LAW, it is the author's OPINION and INTERPETATION of the law. So lets look at the actual Florida law:

316.2065 Bicycle regulations.—

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The law is vague, it does not give a specific lane width or separation of motor vehicle and cycle. This is likely because the distance is relative to speed. The author in the link has interpreted subsection 3 to mean bicycles can ride in the middle of the road at any speed any time they want and "own the lane". This is NOT what the law states. The bicycle association itself advocates a minimum distance of 3 feet. The lanes on BV and Morse, at least south of 466A are 12-14 feet. My full size SUV is 6 feet wide, so hugging the center line, it allows 6-8 feet for the cyclist. Therefore, UNDER THE LAW, the cyclist has NO RIGHT to ride in the middle of the road at less than the speed of traffic, except as noted in subsection 1&2. It does not matter what the bicycle association has to say, only what THE LAW states. If you are riding in the middle at 35 mph, go for it. There is no reason for anyone to pass you. But if you are riding at 15 mph, you are IN VIOLATION of the law and can be cited.

Also:

(6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.

How many times do we come up on 3-4-5 cycles abreast in the middle of the lane so they can chit-chat?? They are also VIOLATING THE LAW. I also agree with Rubi---there are some (not all) cyclists who are loathe to stop at stop signs or lights because of the inconvenience of toe clips. Here's news--it is also "inconvenient" to stop a car as well, but it is THE LAW.

All that being said, motorists need to realize they are much safer than cyclists and act accordingly. But that does not excuse cyclists from taking over a lane when the LAW clearly forbids it.

Now I'll retreat to the bomb shelter.

Originally Posted by outlaw

Read it again. Per your own link, what I highlighted in BOLD is not.

above is my post, copied onto this one, and below is the copy from the link. Please see your ophthalmologist first thing Monday morning

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

above is my post, copied onto this one, and below is the copy from the link. Please see your ophthalmologist first thing Monday morning

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

OK Doc. Here is what I posted in response to Tom's post, and what was in bold type that I was contesting as being in the statute: (5)(a) 3. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The unsafe condition of substandard-width lanes is that drivers may unlawfully and dangerously attempt to pass within the lane or use the adjacent lane when there is conflicting traffic. Although that practice subjects the overtaking motorist and the on-coming motorist to some danger, the bicyclist is the one most likely to suffer harm in those circumstances.

The provision in the Bicycle Regulations allows bicyclists to protect their space for their own safety.

The way they do that is to control the lane. They are not required to keep right. It is legal and it is the safest cycling practice under many circumstances.

Now, if you can show me where that is in the statute, then I will go see my ophthalmologist. If not, please see your psychiatrist.

[biker1]

I figure 7 feet for a car, 2 feet for the bike, a minimum of 3 feet clearance, most cyclists are at least 2 feet inside the white line (as they should be because you can't hug the curb), and most cars are a couple of feet inside the center line. Add it all up and you are looking at about 16 feet. Even if the driver was hugging the center lane, you are looking at 14 feet. None of the roads are that wide.

Originally Posted by tomwed

well done

12 ft makes a road

Would you agree that the width of a car or minivan with mirrors is 90 inches

Would you agree that the law indicates you need to give a bike 3 ft to pass?

36+90=126 10 1/2 ft

You bike. How far is your front wheel to the curb? 1 1/2 ft?

Oh sh.., That's 12 ft. [i'll go away now,,,]

[biker1]

There are few cyclists who can maintain 25 MPH for any period of time (unless they have a tailwind and/or are going down a hill). Maintaining an average of 18 MPH is a pretty good clip. Hills and headwinds bring the average down further.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Just measured Morse opposite Sarasota range---each lane, white line to center line is 12 feet. But this is absolutely the bare minimum width, IMHO, for safety. And that assumes a "good" driver and a "good" cyclist, which may be far and few between here. So, with all the FACTS in, even though the lanes are not "substandard", I think cyclists who are going to ride 25+ mph should exercise their right to "own the lane" as it is called. Might not need to do this if you see a mini-cooper coming up on you, but anything larger would put their safety at risk. If you are going to ride 15 mph, do the motorists, and your serious cycling cohorts a favor and stay on the MMPs. So in summary, my opinion would be that 14 feet and wider lanes, wherever that may be, follow the law and stay right. 12 feet and under, obey the law and "own the lane". Perhaps the Florida legislature could clear up section 5 posted above. Mia culpa to my cycling friends, they were right all along, even if it might have been for the wrong reason. Happy Trails!!!