[nhtexasrn]

Originally Posted by Kelevision

Lucky that you’ve never encountered them on Morse or any other major road. I wish I were so lucky. I literally see a large group of bikers on the main roads daily. I don’t even go out much either.

Cyclists have the same right to the road as cars.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by nhtexasrn

Cyclists have the same right to the road as cars.

Not according to the law of physics.

[Switter]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

... and the bicyclists wish they would ban the carts and the carts wish they would ban the pedestrians..

lol. Isn't that the truth.

I don't own a golf cart but ride bike every day on the multi modal paths. I've learned some lessons for biking:

Helmet. I hate them but on a path shared with motorized vehicles it's kind of important.

Blinking LED lights on front and back of the bike, even in daylight.

Bike mirror. It's very helpful to know what's coming up behind you, especially with battery operated golf carts which are very quiet.

Stay in the center of the lane, don't move over to the right when a golf cart is approaching from behind. I find when I do that, they don't get all the way over into the other lane when they're passing me and I've had a number of incidents where they were way too close, like inches from my handlebars.

I never wave people past me. They need to figure out if it's safe to pass. I don't want to be responsible for waving someone past when it's not safe. I have enough to do just watching out for myself.

If someone insists on passing you on a blind corner, which is quite frequently, be prepared to slow down because if there is a cart coming, they're not gonna think of you when they swerve back into the lane.

It's good to have a bell to warn walkers you're coming, even if they're on the correct side of the path. I found sometimes they'll walk side-by-side and drift into your lane.

Always use arm signals when turning, even if there's no one around you. It forces you to get into the habit of using them. It seems kind of silly but you're letting everyone around you know your intentions. I'm even going to start pointing forward when I'm crossing roads on the paths. I had an incident a couple days ago where a lady on a golf cart didn't signal that she was gonna turn left onto the road that we were crossing. I assumed she was going straight back onto the path but she turned right in front of me at the last second when I was halfway across the road. I don't know what she was thinking, she looked right at me. I don't make assumptions anymore because I see a lot of people on golf carts not using their turn signals. I decided it's in my own best interest to tell them where I'm going, whether they signal or not.

With tunnels that allow for multidirectional turns when they come out, if you are on the path don't assume the people coming out of the tunnels are gonna stop. I almost got creamed by a golf cart that came flying out of a tunnel down by Lake Sumter Landing.

Stop at stop signs. The human brain is kind of funny, you might take a quick glance thinking it's clear then all of a sudden there's a car there. I'm not sure why sometimes you don't see stuff like that, especially when you're looking right at it, but it happens.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by nhtexasrn

Cyclists have the same right to the road as cars.

Yes, they absolutely do, that is the law.
They also have the same RESPONSIBILITIES as do cars, which they frequently ignore---some of those include blowing through the yield signs at RBs cutting off the cars that have the right of way, and often ignoring that yield sign as a group, so while the first cyclist may have had enough room to enter, the car has to jam on his brakes as the last cyclist just blows on through with the group. Then there is both the group and individual mentality of blowing through stop signs at full speed. The most egregious and dangerous cyclist violation of the law is blowing around a gate at full speed. Carts crossing often have no view of vehicles approaching the gate since the gatehouse blocks their view; they must rely on the gate being down. Several times a cyclist has almost hit me as they IGNORED the stop required at the gate. At then there is the "holier than thou" attitude of some cyclists---memorizing every little law that applies to how cars must interact with bicycles while all the time ignoring the laws that apply to them. Then there's a pet peeve of mine: cyclists on an MMP that wave me to go past. I will pass that cyclist when I feel it is safe and after I have assessed the situation. I do not need their permission , some think this is a courtesy, but I find it is arrogant for them to think they have the right to control my movements.

Lastly, the above rant only applies to a small percentage of cyclists---most are courteous and safety conscious. But the same things applies to both cart and car drivers, it is the minority that gives them a bad rep.

[ElDiabloJoe]

Originally Posted by kimgarwel12@gmail.com

This whole subject makes me nuts!!! Carts are designed to go 20 mph (if you don't fiddle with the governor). They are not allowed on most public roads, where bikes are allowed. Cart paths were designed/created for golf carts. Now they've been renamed MMPs to accommodate/allow anything that moves. There are numerous walking/biking paths throughout TV where carts are not allowed. Yet, on the cart paths/MMPs that were designed for them to go 20 mph, carts get a bad rap for even being on the MMPs and "going too fast." There's not a walker or biker (not on an E-bike) that can move 20 mph. The tunnels, bridges and round-abouts, IMO, were not designed to accommodate bikers and walkers. My husband and I have kept the governor on our cart and keep our speed at 19-20 mph, give walkers/bikers wide berth whenever possible or slow down to accommodate their speed when we have to. Yet despite that, we're always getting yelled at to "slow down," "get off the path," and a multitude of other unmentionable comments!!! We've had them purposely step or pull their bikes out in front of us when they see us coming. We had an entire group of bikers (about 15) fan out in the lane in front of us from single file as we approached from behind, trying to make it impossible for us to safely pass around them. When we were able to pass them in the oncoming traffic path lane, we were heckled, cursed at, and yelled at. I no longer have any sympathy for these people on the very paths originally built for carts.....and yes, I know, not all bikers/walkers are like this. There just seem to be more and more of the nasty ones as TV grows. There are approximately 75k golf carts on the cart paths and villages streets that were designed for them. The bikers/walkers need to stop whining!!!

There is an entire philosophy within the cyclist community regarding "Taking The Lane." I don't mean the Mom or Dad who take their kids out for a ride, or the guy on a beach cruiser tooling around town. I mean the large pelotons of spandex-covered Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who can hardly be troubled to stop at a red light because of the inconvenience of unclipping their little clickety-clack ballet shoes from their pedals.

"Taking The Lane" is their defensive response to cars, wherein they do not move to the right, they will not share a lane - their practice is to take the entire lane because they feel entitled to it and because they feel it enhances their safety. Not sure what studies support that if any.

They are not interested in "Sharing the road," they are interested in making the road theirs entirely.

Well, they should use the road then, and stay off the MMPs. Those are for dad and the kids on a bike or the beach cruiser guy tooling around to share with golf cars and pedestrians of all sorts.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

There is an entire philosophy within the cyclist community regarding "Taking The Lane." I don't mean the Mom or Dad who take their kids out for a ride, or the guy on a beach cruiser tooling around town. I mean the large pelotons of spandex-covered Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who can hardly be troubled to stop at a red light because of the inconvenience of unclipping their little clickety-clack ballet shoes from their pedals.

"Taking The Lane" is their defensive response to cars, wherein they do not move to the right, they will not share a lane - their practice is to take the entire lane because they feel entitled to it and because they feel it enhances their safety. Not sure what studies support that if any.

They are not interested in "Sharing the road," they are interested in making the road theirs entirely.

Well, they should use the road then, and stay off the MMPs. Those are for dad and the kids on a bike or the beach cruiser guy tooling around to share with golf cars and pedestrians of all sorts.

Taking the lane is a legitimate thing for cyclists to do according to Florida law. The law requires leaving at least three feet of space between you and the bicycle when passing. Most automobile lanes are not wide enough to "share the lane" and MMP lanes aren't even close. Taking the lane by riding in the center of the lane helps avoid close calls by a driver who mistakenly thinks there is enough room in the single lane.

HOWEVER, taking the lane means the lane closest to the shoulder, it DOES NOT mean the entire MMP or both lanes of a road with two lanes in the same direction. If they fan out across the entire MMP then they deserve all the criticism they receive.

[BigSteph]

I use these engagements to remind myself to clean my front and rear windows with washer fluid. Sometimes when I pass them, I find I have drained my entire reservoir, but my windows are spotless -- enabling me to see other hazards on the road with clarity.

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

There is an entire philosophy within the cyclist community regarding "Taking The Lane." I don't mean the Mom or Dad who take their kids out for a ride, or the guy on a beach cruiser tooling around town. I mean the large pelotons of spandex-covered Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who can hardly be troubled to stop at a red light because of the inconvenience of unclipping their little clickety-clack ballet shoes from their pedals.

"Taking The Lane" is their defensive response to cars, wherein they do not move to the right, they will not share a lane - their practice is to take the entire lane because they feel entitled to it and because they feel it enhances their safety. Not sure what studies support that if any.

They are not interested in "Sharing the road," they are interested in making the road theirs entirely.

Well, they should use the road then, and stay off the MMPs. Those are for dad and the kids on a bike or the beach cruiser guy tooling around to share with golf cars and pedestrians of all sorts.

[jimmy o]

Originally Posted by ltcdfancher

I’m a casual bicyclist living in Well Point. The route that I pedal follows the MMP nearly exclusively. On several occasions, I have come up behind someone walking along the right-side of the path. I ring my bell several times to alert them of my approach. I give them a wide berth, of course, and note that they are wearing earbuds. Did they even hear my bell, my approach, or my “good morning” greeting?

Wasn’t it common practice to walk facing oncoming traffic? The cyclist (or golf car driver) and the pedestrian can each see the other’s approach. The pedestrian can be sure that the approaching ‘vehicle’ is giving them ample clearance.

I think that MMPs have room for everyone that chooses to use them.

You are correct, one should walk facing traffic. Its safer and even written in all “rules of the road”.

[Switter]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Taking the lane by riding in the center of the lane helps avoid close calls by a driver who mistakenly thinks there is enough room in the single lane.

You explained it better than I did in my post. As you said, this applies to the MMP as well. A lot of the things that we think are "courtesies," like moving to the right of the lane and waving people past, actually create more safety risks.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Switter

You explained it better than I did in my post. As you said, this applies to the MMP as well. A lot of the things that we think are "courtesies," like moving to the right of the lane and waving people past, actually create more safety risks.

Absolutely. I try to avoid creating post that read, "yeah, what he said," but yeah, I agree with what you wrote in your earlier post. I do think some cyclists confuse "taking the lane" with "taking the entire MMP" which is a shame.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Yes, they absolutely do, that is the law.
Then there's a pet peeve of mine: cyclists on an MMP that wave me to go past. I will pass that cyclist when I feel it is safe and after I have assessed the situation. I do not need their permission , some think this is a courtesy, but I find it is arrogant for them to think they have the right to control my movements.

I've done this on my bicycle. My reasoning has nothing to do with your assumption though. It IS a courtesy. It's my way of saying:

"I know I can't go close to the 20mph speed limit, and this might frustrate you. So I'm informing you now, that if you wish to pass me, I am prepared to pull over and stop so you can pass safely. Or I can slow down further, or move closer to the edge of the road, depending on where we happen to be at the moment. I also would like for you to pass me sooner rather than later, so I can pay all my attention to what's ahead of me, and not worry about someone tailgating me in a vehicle that can flatten me to the pavement should I need to stop short for any reason. This is a symbiotic relationship, and I want you to know that I am actively doing my part, and see you, and acknowledge you."

I mean, if this is a problem for you, let me know which golf cart you drive and send me a picture of yourself. I'll just stay in the middle of the lane, doing my 8-12mph, until I get to my destination and you can just deal with having to cross to the other side of the road into oncoming traffic if you want to pass me. I'm fine with that too. I have good brakes, I can stop on a dime if you and oncoming traffic have an argument and you end up flying through your windshield onto my side of the road.

[bragones]

Anyone who chooses to walk in the direction of/with traffic flow might want to know about an incident that happened here a few years ago. Two walkers were walking in cart/bike lane in the direction of traffic flow. Two carts were following behind the walkers. The cart directly behind the walkers decided to pull out into the road to pass the walkers. The cart directly behind that cart didn't have enough time to react and consequently plowed into the pedestrians, killing one of them.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by bragones

Anyone who chooses to walk in the direction of/with traffic flow might want to know about an incident that happened here a few years ago. Two walkers were walking in cart/bike lane in the direction of traffic flow. Two carts were following behind the walkers. The cart directly behind the walkers decided to pull out into the road to pass the walkers. The cart directly behind that cart didn't have enough time to react and consequently plowed into the pedestrians, killing one of them.

Shouldn’t have been tail gating and watching road.

Why you walk on edge facing traffic ready to step or jump off in case of close encounter. When walker walk two and three abreast and won’t fall in single file when Traffic approaching THEY are creating safety hazard no different than golf cart driver brazing speeding down road and passing on blind curves.

[Runway48]

If you're not a golfer, why bother with a golf cart and all the nonsense of MMPs? If you need wind in your hair, you can get a used Miata or Mini Cooper convertible for the price of new golf cart. They're easy to park, will go further and last longer and have creature comforts for the times when the weather is not cooperating with open air driving and with TV expanding you won't need to pack provisions to travel from one end to the other. I get the fun factor of golf carts but when I've driven them, they remind me of a homemade go-kart I had as a kid except they handle worse but stop better. Both provided a heavy dose of exhaust fumes.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Runway48

If you're not a golfer, why bother with a golf cart and all the nonsense of MMPs? If you need wind in your hair, you can get a used Miata or Mini Cooper convertible for the price of new golf cart. They're easy to park, will go further and last longer and have creature comforts for the times when the weather is not cooperating with open air driving and with TV expanding you won't need to pack provisions to travel from one end to the other. I get the fun factor of golf carts but when I've driven them, they remind me of a homemade go-kart I had as a kid except they handle worse but stop better. Both provided a heavy dose of exhaust fumes.

Over 2,000 miles/year on the cart (actually growing) and never touched a golf club.

- Cheaper to operate (50mpg for gas, about $0.01/mile for electric)
- Easier to park (four carts to one parking spot vice one car per parking spot)
- Cheaper to insure

For me, the cart is more fun for short trips and a larger car is more comfortable for longer trips. The Miata would be a toy but not very practical.