[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

A "reasonable person" in this case would think..."hm, gunshots out there, this guy comes in asking who called the cops on him - I think I'll just exit, stage left. REALLY FAST."

That is the only "reasonable" response I can think of.

I'd agree, unless "exiting stage left" was not an option...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

He took someone's life. He should be damn sure of the threat before using lethal force. I am not seeing any reason for doing so. The Pulse Night Club had an armed man come in and start shooting people. Lethal force is very justified in that scenario by anyone who could hit the shooter.

Were you there? I didn't think so. Therefore, you have no idea what the shooter though, saw or what the deceased had or didn't have in his hand, nor how he acted towards the patrons in the restaurant...

Hence, the continued investigation...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

There is no evidence that shows the victim at Applebee's was a bad man. He shot into the air. Not at a person. And even that sounds fishy unless there was gun residue on his hands.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The police were coming he was probably going for a cell phone. Very little of this makes much sense. Why would he pull a gun in that situation? Except maybe he needed his cell phone to try to call the people in the car who left to come get him before the cops came.

Apparently, he "pulled a gun" outside the restaurant, so...

And you actually think he was calling the people who left amidst gunfire just a few minutes earlier?

That ranks up there with the, "Let's have some pie" scenario...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Florida is "stand your ground". He had no obligation to flee.

True. But the "let's get out of Dodge" option certainly involves less paperwork in the aftermath...

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

In my opinion - a reasonable person would flee. I have no obligation to do a lot of things that I do anyway, because I consider myself to be a reasonable person.
.

Can a reasonable person outrun a bullet? Maybe superman could but not me...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I disagree. We do not know enough facts.

Someone is dead. And I do not see a reasonable cause here to kill another person. How does the shooter even know who was shooting outside of Applebee's? Where was the killer sitting and how far was that from the victim? The victim is the murdered man.

And I have a law degree from the U of MN. Class of 1989. The current Attorney General of MN is Class of 1990.


We did go over how FACTs were important in cases. An angry man walks into Applebee's carrying a gun in his hand. That is reasonable cause.

No one was murdered, as of yet...

There was a homicide. The question will be: Was it justified or was it Murder?

Someone with a law degree would know that...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Just curious how this will play out and why the media has done next to nothing with it.

Because there is still an investigation going on and they are possibly actually trying to be responsible journalists?

I know... I laughed when typing that...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Good questions. You see a guy running into a bar with an assault type weapon. Probably would create imminent danger in almost any situation.

Nice non sequitur...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by JGibson

My understanding of the law is if a person points a gun at you it doesn't matter if he says nothing it is assumed he is going to pull the trigger.

The law realizes you don't have to wait to be shot at and possibly killed before you can pull the trigger.

Pointing a gun at anyone is playing stupid games and gonna win stupid prizes like your life.

Exactly...

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Exactly...

Or you lost an eye.
If you have to wait to actually see the gun, it is likely already being fired. Bad things happen very quickly.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Or you lost an eye.
If you have to wait to actually see the gun, it is likely already being fired. Bad things happen very quickly.

Opinion based on professional experience or just backside?

If you don't wait to actually see a gun then unarmed individuals wind up dead. Bad things did happen very quickly.

How does it go .... It is better that ten armed men live than one unarmed man be killed ... or something like that.

[Taltarzac725]

I seem to be less tolerant of smartasses than earlier in life so I am adding to my Ignore List.

[Ecuadog]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

In my opinion - a reasonable person would flee. ...

About 50 years ago, I worked for Art Shamsky and Phil Linz in a bar that they owned in Queens, NY. I was behind the bar late on a slow night when a couple came in. After about a half hour, the male half of the duo got annoyed because his female partner was paying too much attention to the DJ. He left the bar. He reentered minutes later, carrying a lever action rifle, and yelled, “Are you coming with me?” She didn’t move. He fired a shot into the ceiling and asked, “Are you coming with me now?” No one in the bar moved. He then tried to put another round in the chamber, but he was having trouble. Again, no one in the bar moved. While he’s trying to figure out his problem with the rifle, she walks to him, grabs him and they leave. I went to the front door, locked it, and went back behind the bar and started serving drinks on-the-house. Nobody called the police. There must have been someone in the joint that was heeled given its location near Pep McGuire’s, a nearby bar that was frequented by cops and crooks. It was almost like nothing happened. Nobody fled.

Theorize all you want. Whatever happens... happens.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Ecuadog

About 50 years ago, I worked for Art Shamsky and Phil Linz in a bar that they owned in Queens, NY. I was behind the bar late on a slow night when a couple came in. After about a half hour, the male half of the duo got annoyed because his female partner was paying too much attention to the DJ. He left the bar. He reentered minutes later, carrying a lever action rifle, and yelled, “Are you coming with me?” She didn’t move. He fired a shot into the ceiling and asked, “Are you coming with me now?” No one in the bar moved. He then tried to put another round in the chamber, but he was having trouble. Again, no one in the bar moved. While he’s trying to figure out his problem with the rifle, she walks to him, grabs him and they leave. I went to the front door, locked it, and went back behind the bar and started serving drinks on-the-house. Nobody called the police. There must have been someone in the joint that was heeled given its location near Pep McGuire’s, a nearby bar that was frequented by cops and crooks. It was almost like nothing happened. Nobody fled.

Theorize all you want. Whatever happens... happens.

Looks like a clear case in 2023 of defense of others up to the point his rifle jammed unless he then would have turned it around and used it as a club.