[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

..."Substandard" roads refers to roads like Morse and Buena Vista that are narrower than wider "standard" roads. These narrower roads do not have enough room for a bicyclist to be passed by a car with at least three feet of clearance...

Maybe that is way some bicyclists look at it, but I assure, Morse and Buena Vista are not substandard roads.

Some roads...especially interstates and some other high-level roads...may have slightly wider lanes, but that does not make Morse and Buena Vista substandard. Morse and Buena Vista are arterial roads, most likely considered minor arterial roads compared to urban areas. And their cross-section...lane widths, shoulders, etc....easily meet and exceed minimum standards.

Minimum lane width to meet the three-feet-of-clearance criterion is roughly...
* Width for operation of a bicycle = 4 feet (FDOT NHWA)
* Width of average full size sedan = ~6.5 feet (Some are wider)
* Safe clearance criterion = 3 feet
* Total = 13.5 feet minimum lane width

Few roads satisfy this requirement.

Roads do not have to be 13.5 feet to be considered standard by any accepted road design measure. Twelve (12) feet is a very standard lane width for arterial roads, with lanes down to 10 feet considered standard under many conditions.

While I haven't measured them, I'm confident Morse and Buena Vista easily meet these requirements.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by billethkid

golf cart paths are on the golf courses which are not played at night!!

Thought about it...NO!

Would you be willing to be assessed a special fee per month for the small town look....say $100 per month or more?

Maybe I just responded to a bait post

1. Do you even own a golf cart?
2. It is about the money!

[billethkid]

[alzjr]

Morse, Buena Vista, El Cameno, Stillwater have been measured and the lane is only 11 feet wide. Substandard in Florida.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

Misunderstandings often interfere with communication. The biker knows where he lives. "Substandard" roads refers to roads like Morse and Buena Vista that are narrower than wider "standard" roads. These narrower roads do not have enough room for a bicyclist to be passed by a car with at least three feet of clearance. That is why the bicyclist needs to ride in the middle of these narrow lanes to stop cars from trying to squeeze by. To pass the bike the car would move over to the other lane.

My guess is you've never driven much on 2 lane country roads which tend to be narrow yet have high speed limits. I seldom had difficulty riding a bike on them (back when I rode a bike) and would never have thought of riding in the middle of the lane to stop cars from squeezing by. Just another example of entitlement ideology. We share, you own.

[biker1]

Reread my post. I referenced the width. "Substandard" does not refer to the condition of the road, only the width.

Originally Posted by dbussone

PB - I suspect biker is unable to remember which villages in which country he is discussing. The roadways here are better than most in the US, except for the rotaries, of course, which few properly use.

[biker1]

Actually BV and Morse are substandard with regard to width. A car and a bike, with the required 3 feet of clearance, cannot coexist in the same lane.

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Maybe that is way some bicyclists look at it, but I assure, Morse and Buena Vista are not substandard roads.

Some roads...especially interstates and some other high-level roads...may have slightly wider lanes, but that does not make Morse and Buena Vista substandard. Morse and Buena Vista are arterial roads, most likely considered minor arterial roads compared to urban areas. And their cross-section...lane widths, shoulders, etc....easily meet and exceed minimum standards.

Minimum lane width to meet the three-feet-of-clearance criterion is roughly...
* Width for operation of a bicycle = 4 feet (FDOT NHWA)
* Width of average full size sedan = ~6.5 feet (Some are wider)
* Safe clearance criterion = 3 feet
* Total = 13.5 feet minimum lane width

Few roads satisfy this requirement.

Roads do not have to be 13.5 feet to be considered standard by any accepted road design measure. Twelve (12) feet is a very standard lane width for arterial roads, with lanes down to 10 feet considered standard under many conditions.

While I haven't measured them, I'm confident Morse and Buena Vista easily meet these requirements.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by biker1

Reread my post. I referenced the width. "Sunstandard" does refer to the condition of the road, only the width.

Reread Polar Bear's post above. I'll rely on the expertise of a professional engineer, thank you.

[biker1]

The term is "owning the lane", not "owning the road". This is necessary under some circumstances to prevent a car from squeezing you into the curb. The classic example is when riding on a 2-lane road with a double solid line on a curve. Some people will try to pass you if they think they squeeze into the lane with you as opposed to swinging out into the other lane. This is a dangerous situation and is typically avoided by moving left so anyone attempting to pass you has to move into the other lane - something they will hopefully not do on a curve with a double solid line. Riding to the extreme right of the lane is a dangerous way to ride under certain circumstances.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Every year, Auburn hosts "The Great Race" which is essentially a mini triathlon. (Trivia---it is named after Captain Miles Keogh, a native Auburnian who is buried at Fort Hill Cemetery about 500 yards from my house. His horse, Commanche, was the only US Army survivor of Little Big Horn.) Anyway, I digress. For about a month prior to the race, our streets are loaded with cyclists practicing/training. I have no problem if they want to own the road, I'm in a better position to look out for their safety than they are. However, not everyone feels that way. I wish they did, because I occasionally ride a bike as well, but they don't. So consider this before getting too committed to "owning the road"
1) Cars have to SHARE the road, golf carts have SHARE the road, so a lot of drivers don't think a cyclist should OWN the road
2) When push comes to shove, they am driving a 4600 pound SUV, you are driving a 20 pound bicycle, so who REALLY owns the road

[biker1]

Call law enforcement and ask whether those roads are substandard with regard to width and whether a car, a bike, and the required 3 feet of clearance can coexist in the same lane. Here is a hint: they can't.

Originally Posted by dbussone

Reread Polar Bear's post above. I'll rely on the expertise of a professional engineer, thank you.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

I ride with the bike club occasionally on the roads and feel safe on these excursions. When alone I tend to stay on the MM paths. I do take the lane on occasion to ensure my safety. I do this when I am riding around blind curves and also coming to gates. I found if I rode to the far right in these situations some carts would attempt to pass me even though they couldn't see around the curve or had time to pass me before a gate. Taking the lane by riding in the center of the right lane blocked golf carts from passing me in these unsafe situations. All the rest of the time I ride to the far right so carts can easily pass me. I also slow down when the path divides into separate lanes so a cart can get ahead of me as I don't move over once in these narrow lanes. I move at a fast pace of 16 to 25 mph. I have no problems with cart drivers when I follow this program. When it is safe I always let the carts pass me if they want to and are going fast enough to get by me safely.

Good common sense. Most bikers and cart drivers appreciate your sharing of the lane. I find the more room I give a cart, the more room they give me when they pass. It's about sharing, not in your face owning.

[Moderator]

Reminder....topic is striping of Villages multimodal paths. Please stay on topic and do not post personal comments directed at other members.

Moderator

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by billethkid

As long as residents or more likely representatives find a way to pay for something that is all that is needed to not follow the decisions made?

The consistency we have enjoyed these many years is now a neighborhood by neighborhood decision?

It was nice while it lasted these many, MANY years!

I believe the pro-striping folks are being telepathically manipulated by aliens who want to use the paths as runways for their space craft and so does that Chicken fellow.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by tomwed

I believe the pro-striping folks are being telepathically manipulated by aliens who want to use the paths as runways for their space craft and so does that Chicken fellow.

Now, that was funny, and it didn't even go over my head.
Oh yeah, I was shutting up

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Now, that was funny, and it didn't even go over my head.
Oh yeah, I was shutting up

Thank-you
I replied to Bullit's post which was #3 by copying Village Chickens response which was #4. It seemed like the groundhog thing to do at the time. We're up to #435.