[billethkid]

Originally Posted by tomwed

Bikers taking the lane is a rub for some Villagers in carts. That's too bad. That's not too much to ask. Carts should get used to their presence and wait until it's safe to pass. Eventually they will. Bike riding has been gaining in popularity for years and the MMP's are so smooth and litter free.

I think the MMP's are currently dangerous and stripes will not change that for walkers. I would look for a sidewalk. If you don't feel safe walking with a child on an MMP, why would you feel safe walking without one? Can you jump out of the way as quickly as a child? Land on your feet? Or if you do hit the ground not break anything?

On a bike most seniors can maneuver almost as quickly as they always have. The MMP's feel safe to me on a bike.

I think the dialogue should be about why would a walker or biker need to jump out of the way?
We need to at some point recognize the issues being addressed or not is the small perecetage of golf cart drivers behavior is the root cause.....and until and or if that is changed the safety efforts will have little or no impact as it is the major unsafe contributor.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by biker1

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

I ride at 19 mph. I have a pedal assist ebike. I feel safer the faster I go. Carts don't pass me very often because I don't hold them up. I'm uncomfortable on BV even at 19 mph when I get squeezed by a car or truck going 35 mph.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by tomwed

...I feel safer the faster I go. Carts don't pass me very often because I don't hold them up...

Originally Posted by tomwed

...The MMP's feel safe to me on a bike.

Agree on both counts.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by billethkid

I think the dialogue should be about why would a walker or biker need to jump out of the way?
We need to at some point recognize the issues being addressed or not is the small perecetage of golf cart drivers behavior is the root cause.....and until and or if that is changed the safety efforts will have little or no impact as it is the major unsafe contributor.

I was playing in the men's tourney about 3 months ago. I hit a 30 foot putt and as it was about to drop, I jumped in the air in excitement. I pulled a calf muscle. How pathetic that I now need to stretch before putting. How dumb can I get? I'm not young enough to spontaneously jump anymore so now I don't when I putt. I'm not going to stop putting.

I'm afraid to play pickle ball. I think I will instructively do something stupid trying to return a ball that would be routine for me before. I'm growing into my deteriorating body.

You are not going to change the dumb things people like me do. Just look at the gate videos. Some older people more easily panic under pressure.

I pick and choose what's safest for me. It's not a matter of rights or expecting someone else's behavior to change.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by billethkid

I think the dialogue should be about why would a walker or biker need to jump out of the way?
We need to at some point recognize the issues being addressed or not is the small perecetage of golf cart drivers behavior is the root cause.....and until and or if that is changed the safety efforts will have little or no impact as it is the major unsafe contributor.

Based on your thesis of personal responsibility, there would be no need for safety belts in cars because we all drive responsibly. There would be no need for traffic signals or lane markings on the highways. There would be no need for warning labels on products because we are do the right thing and use products correctly. But we don't.

Safety devices, warning labels, traffic lane markings, etc. are there to protect us from others, as well as ourselves.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Mleeja

Based on your thesis of personal responsibility, there would be no need for safety belts in cars because we all drive responsibly. There would be no need for traffic signals or lane markings on the highways. There would be no need for warning labels on products because we are do the right thing and use products correctly. But we don't.

Safety devices, warning labels, traffic lane markings, etc. are there to protect us from others, as well as ourselves.

My post is/was/has been with/about driving golf carts in The Villages.
I do believe there are differing personal responsibilities for the various conveyances. There may be some commonalities but I do not think one would extrapolate that what is appropriate one is therefore applicable to all the others...i.e. planes, trains, automobiles and golf carts. That is me.

You are obviously free to assume what you will except for assigning/assuming my intents.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by billethkid

My post is/was/has been with/about driving golf carts in The Villages.
I do believe there are differing personal responsibilities for the various conveyances. There may be some commonalities but I do not think one would extrapolate that what is appropriate one is therefore applicable to all the others...i.e. planes, trains, automobiles and golf carts...

I think the comparisons are absolutely valid, especially the ones related to markings and other safety features on our road systems.

[biker1]

You need to "own the lane" in order to avoid being squeezed by cars. That is part of cycling 101. I ride BV and Morse regularly and don't have issues. The one time I rode the MMPs I had concerns. Again, the majority of serious cyclists prefer the roads for safety reasons and the quality of the ride. I am sure you like your motorized bike but the majority of serious cyclists are their own engines, are clipped in to their pedals, and having to stop and unclip at every Village entrance is not something most people want to do. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by tomwed

I ride at 19 mph. I have a pedal assist ebike. I feel safer the faster I go. Carts don't pass me very often because I don't hold them up. I'm uncomfortable on BV even at 19 mph when I get squeezed by a car or truck going 35 mph.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by billethkid

My post is/was/has been with/about driving golf carts in The Villages.
I do believe there are differing personal responsibilities for the various conveyances. There may be some commonalities but I do not think one would extrapolate that what is appropriate one is therefore applicable to all the others...i.e. planes, trains, automobiles and golf carts. That is me.

You are obviously free to assume what you will except for assigning/assuming my intents.

Let me make sure I am clear on what I am reading. It is your position that someone who speeds on the highways, used power equipment in an unsafe manner, drinks and drives, on-and-on, should/will change up all of their bad habits/attitudes when they get behind the wheel of a golf cart and becasue they should/will do this, extra safety measures are not needed?

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by biker1

You need to "own the lane" in order to avoid being squeezed by cars. That is part of cycling 101. I ride BV and Morse regularly and don't have issues. The one time I rode the MMPs I had concerns. Again, the majority of serious cyclists prefer the roads for safety reasons and the quality of the ride. I am sure you like your motorized bike but the majority of serious cyclists are their own engines, are clipped in to their pedals, and having to stop and unclip at every Village entrance is not something most people want to do. You are comparing apples to oranges.

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

Unless I am riding an e-bike at 19 mph. Is that correct? As a serious biker you probably experienced taking over a lane in the villages and still having someone pass you on your left and getting too close to your shoulder just to make their point.

[biker1]

You are not a cyclist so I have no clue what you should be doing. I am a cyclist and the MMPs is not a place where most serious cyclists ride. The reason is because of safety and it is not a quality ride. You can try to be clever and parse this any which way you want but it is true.

Originally Posted by tomwed

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

Unless I am riding an e-bike at 19 mph. Is that correct?

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by tomwed

I ride at 19 mph. I have a pedal assist ebike. I feel safer the faster I go. Carts don't pass me very often because I don't hold them up. I'm uncomfortable on BV even at 19 mph when I get squeezed by a car or truck going 35 mph.

I am not a serious biker, but do ride my bike for exercise. I do not use the MMPs because I feel they are to dangerous for bikers, especially at night or early mornings. To many blind curves and you can't see the edge. Seems like a good place for some edge markings

I would much rather use the residential streets. I have my routes mapped out where I can get my rides in without using the MMP.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by biker1

You are not a cyclist so I have no clue what you should be doing. I am a cyclist and the MMPs is not a place where most serious cyclists ride. The reason is because of safety and it is not a quality ride. You can try to be clever and parse this any which way you want but it is true.

I think you two are arguing the same side of the coin. The MMPs are not a safe place to bike.

[biker1]

Exactly. There are too many places where head on collisions can happen, with carts, walkers, and other cyclists. The tunnels and the Village entrances are problematic if you are clipped into your pedals. The residential streets are good as well as the roads with bike lanes. If you are a strong rider, BV and Morse are fine but a rear facing flashing light and rear view mirror are really needed. The roundabouts require caution as people sometimes merge into the circle without looking.

Originally Posted by Mleeja

I am not a serious biker, but do ride my bike for exercise. I do not use the MMPs because I feel they are to dangerous for bikers, especially at night or early mornings. To many blind curves and you can't see the edge. Seems like a good place for some edge markings

I would much rather use the residential streets. I have my routes mapped out where I can get my rides in without using the MMP.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by biker1

You are not a cyclist so I have no clue what you should be doing. I am a cyclist and the MMPs is not a place where most serious cyclists ride. The reason is because of safety and it is not a quality ride. You can try to be clever and parse this any which way you want but it is true.

I agree with everything you just said.