[Topspinmo]

Please, lots of money wasted on planting Perennials. Three time year in and around roundabout. Talking about unsafe and waste of money when planting low growing less maintenance annual would be just as pretty and hundreds of thousands cheaper. Now for my opinion, side striping seems overboard center line striping not bad idea. But it won't make difference with DS drivers.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by Farmay

I think if stripping is done properly then there is no problem in it. What do you have to say about it?

What the consulting engineer was saying in "terms" we understand: You can spend $300,000 and it won't hurt anything but it won't improve safety on the multi-modal paths in my expert opinion. In others words, you are throwing away $300,000 plus you will have a continuing maintenance issue down the road. 300,000 here and 300,000 there and soon it adds up to real money.

Sound like a committee decision similar to the committee that was designing a new breed of horse and came up with the camel.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by justjim

What the consulting engineer was saying in "terms" we understand: You can spend $300,000 and it won't hurt anything but it won't improve safety on the multi-modal paths in my expert opinion. In others words, you are throwing away $300,000 plus you will have a continuing maintenance issue down the road. 300,000 here and 300,000 there and soon it adds up to real money.

Sound like a committee decision similar to the committee that was designing a new breed of horse and came up with the camel.

what I said in post #11 btk amplified in post #14 and you validate here

What this topic validates is when the government chooses for you they always choose wrong. This is another example of using taxpayers money foolishly because government people believe money grows on trees...well at least in taxpayers (amenities payers) bank accounts...and these same government people still haven't let go of the indoor pool thingy

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by billethkid

What some residents will have to learn is that there is not an endless supply of money to keep adding expenses to a budget that for all practical purposes has a fixed source (you and me and our annual contribution).



The attitude of some stating it is only $4 more per month per person is seriously flawed thinking. It is absolutely an option.....as long as residents understand to free up $300,000 from the budgeted amount to do striping of cart paths then something else amounting to $300,000 has to be deleted from the budget. If not then there will be an increase in amenity or what ever fees contribute to the funding.



The single biggest threat to TV life style remaining as what we all bought into is run away expenses with increasing resident fees to accomodate the whims of some number of residents.



I have personally been involved with transition teams shifting ownership from developers to residents. The developer, like it or not has a budget discipline. They also have many expenses that they subsidize that go away when they do. Once the developer is out of the picture then residents find "things" they would like to have added, improved, made bigger, prettier and on and on.

Anything is possible. As long as residents understand there is only a fixed amount of money available (from the residents). Adding a projedt not bugeted means taking something else away OR raise fees. Some delude themselves into having a special assessment for their favorite project ending up with the normal fees plus the assessment (which may go away after some specified time period...but usuallly do not).



I take the time to spell out my views on the subject because far too many people think a community can absorb all the costs. The can....when the fees are increased.



How about fees going from the roughly $300 per month we pay now to double that amount? No way that could happen here in TV? Yes it can and will if we do not DEMAND a fiscal financial responsibility. I have lived through a doubling of annual fees after a departing developer in the past.



Maybe while TV developer is still involved we might not experience any assessment or increases.....maybe.....$300,000 is a lot of money that has to come from some place.



If it were 100% resident funded are you willing to make monthly payments to have it done? If not then you better make yourself heard.



The silent majority can ONLY LOSE!!



I vote no striping. The end does not justify the a $300,000 expenditure or $30,000 either! Just drive the paths as some of us have for the last 12-20 years of being here. Don't get sucked into an emotional sales job!

What BTK just said. Amen!

[PennBF]

I have not seen the residents of CDD 4 going bankrupt because they installed center stripping on their cart paths. Agreed, they did not do curb painting which may not have been needed. Simple center stripping is not "rocket science". It is simply using the proper equipment to paint the stripes.

[ditka41]

No more stripes are needed! If you can't see, stay home.

Everybody can think of something they'd like to have money spent on, ----as long as it's not their own money. The developer has provided a wonderful place to live with great features. We need to stop complaining.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by ditka41

No more stripes are needed! If you can't see, stay home...

Just for the record, I have a graduate degree in transportation engineering, worked in the field for over thirty years, and have excellent vision, including night-vision. I have never had a significant problem driving our trails. That being said...

I have driven paths at night that made it very difficult to see path boundaries and approaching medians. Especially considering the nature of our population, I think the markings have value and are a reasonable use of our money.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Just for the record, I have a graduate degree in transportation engineering, worked in the field for over thirty years, and have excellent vision, including night-vision. I have never had a significant problem driving our trails. That being said...

I have driven paths at night that made it very difficult to see path boundaries and approaching medians. Especially considering the nature of our population, I think the markings have value and are a reasonable use of our money.

Polar - as an obvious expert, would you recommend side or center stripes?
Thank you.

[same]

With road markings, like a street, automobile drivers may think the multi-models are an exit to a neighborhood. We have all seen automobiles on the paths, now with street markings on the paths they will just be making an honest mistake especially on those dark rainy nites when all they can see is a road that looks like just like another street.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by dbussone

Polar - as an obvious expert, would you recommend side or center stripes?...

First of all, I am not an expert specifically on striping of multi-modal paths. I'm not sure experts in that field even exist. Widespread use of multi-modal paths does not exist...yet. Very few other places, if any, have them as a major mode of transportation such as in The Villages. That makes for very little data. That being said...

The only problem I see with the paths in TV is lack of visibility in certain limited sections of the path at night. For this reason, I think striping on the edges of the path...and better markings of some medians...has merit.

While I haven't thoroughly considered possible pros/cons of center-line striping, at this time I don't see any obvious benefit.

[Bryan]

The multi-modal pathway marking issue is complex.

To start with, you can't fix STUPID. Nothing we do will address stupid cart drivers (drunk, blind, speedy, reckless, ill mannered, etc.) but it may make the paths safer for the rest of us.

One correction to a previous post, someone mentioned $300,000 cost per month - that is incorrect. $300,000 is an estimated one-time cost. Yes, "one time" is a misnomer as 6 to 8 years down the road the stripping will need to be replaced. And $300,000 will all have to be paid in Year One but nothing for the next 5 to 7 years. So, maybe $50,000 per year cost spread over 100,000 residents so maybe 50 cents per resident per year - not unreasonable IMHO.

I am not a great believer in coincidences. I am sure it was only by coincidence that our traffic engineer, Kimley-Horn, recommended against side markings and then said “but if you do it anyway, use this very expensive method”. They had no clue it might cause a cost backlash!

Once real costs of these markings became known, the naysayers and penny pinchers came out of the woodwork in droves to fight multi-modal pathway marking.

So here we are today, reviewing a done deal. Is this “Government by the Loudest”? Where were all these concerned naysayers and penny pinchers when their elected officials held open government meetings to get resident input? Where were they when all the resident surveys were taken by resident associations and local media? Where were they when engineering reports were reviewed and discussed at public meetings?

Not interested – that’s where!

Now money is actually being spent. Here they come!

Do you really think their concerns are for resident safety, resident peace of mind or comfort levels? Or do you suspect their late-arising concerns may all be pocketbook related?

Consider the source. Lots of last minute, after-the-fact objections to a well thought out, well executed plan. I’m more than a little suspicious of motivations for the objections..

[looneycat]

just have to mention that the new led headlights can be blinding at night as most people don't have them aimed properly, looking down to avoid the glare is only helpful if there is something to follow after being blinded. I am all for striping....and I'm not dtunk or blind.

[twoplanekid]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

...... Widespread use of multi-modal paths does not exist...yet. Very few other places, if any, have them as a major mode of transportation such as in The Villages. That makes for very little data. .....

I totally agree. If there are problems with the multi-modal paths that now need to be addressed, data needs to be collected and analyzed by professionals. If we can’t find professionals who are familiar with multi-modal paths then ask Ohio State or a Florida university to make a case study on path safety. Then we can examine the recommendations presented to us and decide if cost and quality of life issues are within reason.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by PennBF

I have not seen the residents of CDD 4 going bankrupt because they installed center stripping on their cart paths. Agreed, they did not do curb painting which may not have been needed. Simple center stripping is not "rocket science". It is simply using the proper equipment to paint the stripes.

Are you willing to pay a special monthly fee to do it?

Remembering pennies make dollars and there will be more favorite non budgeted projects to follow.

No added value to do it, then what is to think about?

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Just for the record, I have a graduate degree in transportation engineering, worked in the field for over thirty years, and have excellent vision, including night-vision. I have never had a significant problem driving our trails. That being said...

I have driven paths at night that made it very difficult to see path boundaries and approaching medians. Especially considering the nature of our population, I think the markings have value and are a reasonable use of our money.

I do believe there are certain areas on some paths where the boundary of the path and grass are hard to determine especially on rainy nights and there are areas where the drainage is not to good and large puddles form. Some of those puddles you can't see till you are right up on them.