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  #16  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:37 AM
transplanted transplanted is offline
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Cool Firm Grasp of the Obvious

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Originally Posted by asianthree View Post
So don’t move to Italy
Nice if you have a choice.
  #17  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:43 AM
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The media loves selective reporting for further its agenda, however should one be so inclined accurate data and news is on the internet. Its sad when one has to fact check the major media outlets for accuracy and truth which is where the US is today. The politicians albeit Trump or the Congress will eventually be gone but the every increasing dishonest and biased press will be there forever and embolden to spread their facts and bias.
USAF C-130s Flew Self-Contained Care Unit to Aviano Air Base in Italy on Friday. The aid from the U.S. military several days ago, and
Russia’s air force beginning today, along with missions from China, Cuba and other nations, support the Italian government’s escalating response to the COVID-19 crisis. The Italian government has deployed troops in some areas to monitor quarantine and help slow the spread of the deadly disease.
  #18  
Old 03-23-2020, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by GoodLife View Post
According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of Health

Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says"

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?
I don't understand the point you are trying to make by cherry picking a piece of the article you linked. What it actually says it that only 12% of patients only had Covid and no other condition that contributed to death. The other 88% had Covid and some other risk that made Covid more lethal. Which is exactly what everyone has been told all along. Those with heart, lung, cancer, diabetic, immune problems... are more at risk of death.

And more significantly the article points out that being elderly was a major factor. Whereas the average age of Covid hospitalized patients in China was 46, it was age 67 in Italy.

Here are the paragraphs, slightly edited
Quote:
According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health, the country’s mortality rate is far higher due to demographics - the nation has the second oldest population worldwide - and the manner in which hospitals record deaths. ..
This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. ..
But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality
I would offer that I doubt, but do not know, that the air quality in Wuhan is better than Lombardy.

Now back to the original figures. If 12% of fatalities are in victims with no pre-existing conditions that is very significant. It refutes the argument that if you are healthy you're not at risk. I don't know if smoking and exposure to air pollution would have been listed at contributing factors on death certificates. Seems unlikely.
  #19  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:11 AM
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The point here is that they don't have enough respirators. The Germans and French are not sharing respirators. They can't get them anywhere. Who is to die? They decided that its the old people instead of the rich people. The Americans are closing up. Only the Chinese are helping the Italians with medical equipment. Only the Israelis are sending doctors to Italy. Who will Europe see as an ally when this is done? Not us I fear.
  #20  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:19 AM
Lindsyburnsy Lindsyburnsy is offline
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That could happen here if we run out of ventilators and staff to operate them. Without masks, gloves, shields etc, our healthcare staff are contracting the virus.
  #21  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueash View Post
I don't understand the point you are trying to make by cherry picking a piece of the article you linked. What it actually says it that only 12% of patients only had Covid and no other condition that contributed to death. The other 88% had Covid and some other risk that made Covid more lethal. Which is exactly what everyone has been told all along. Those with heart, lung, cancer, diabetic, immune problems... are more at risk of death.

And more significantly the article points out that being elderly was a major factor. Whereas the average age of Covid hospitalized patients in China was 46, it was age 67 in Italy.

Here are the paragraphs, slightly edited


I would offer that I doubt, but do not know, that the air quality in Wuhan is better than Lombardy.

Now back to the original figures. If 12% of fatalities are in victims with no pre-existing conditions that is very significant. It refutes the argument that if you are healthy you're not at risk. I don't know if smoking and exposure to air pollution would have been listed at contributing factors on death certificates. Seems unlikely.
I posted in reply to a poster who calculated Italy's death rate due to coronavirus as 9.2% which is way out of whack with rest of world's at 1-2%. As the Italian advisor quoted in article said, the way Italy is coding cause of death may be different. Believe what you like.
  #22  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:27 AM
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Here's the good news----this is NOT Italy. We have far more resources and much better medical care
  #23  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:28 AM
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Topspinmo Topspinmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean View Post
What will they do if they have a 65 year old physician who is currently practicing medicine vs a 24 year old felon? Hmmmm.

Just a thought. Maybe I should just stop thinking about all this.
Over here the criminals would get treatment, if they didn’t it would what lawyers call cruel and unusual punishment.
  #24  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlcooper70 View Post
The point here is that they don't have enough respirators. The Germans and French are not sharing respirators. They can't get them anywhere. Who is to die? They decided that its the old people instead of the rich people. The Americans are closing up. Only the Chinese are helping the Italians with medical equipment. Only the Israelis are sending doctors to Italy. Who will Europe see as an ally when this is done? Not us I fear.
LOL Watch this video of graphics from NYT's article "How the virus got out" and then tell us how China will be seen as an ally.

How The Virus Got Out (c) NYT - YouTube
  #25  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:32 AM
ts12755 ts12755 is offline
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Italy's greed of selling all their Manufacturing in Northern Italy to the Chinese was a poor decision. Especially with a direct flight to Wuhan China
  #26  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:50 AM
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Like the US becoming energy independent, other strategic industries have to be brought back home ...make it here buy it here. I'm not an isolationist but protect America first...any surpluses we can help others with..
  #27  
Old 03-23-2020, 08:35 PM
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Sad reality of Socialized healthcare
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