[Aces4]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Very interesting read. It could be summarized by saying this place represents a game of musical chairs, and growth is the music, so growth needs to be fully embraced because when it stops the game will end, and the end won’t be pretty. Although I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise, I find it extremely disturbing that this is the situation that exists.

Anyone with extensive education and experience in business, investments, or civil leadership fully understands that diversification of risk is absolutely essential for both long term success as well as stability and sustainability. What we have here is an economy that is practically the opposite, it is based on the growth of one core industry (a retirement community) and the services demanded by it’s clientele. This lack of risk diversification is akin to one having their entire life’s savings invested in a single asset, which no prudent investment professional would ever recommend.

This is not by any means an anti-developer statement, I would never find fault in a private business looking to maximize profits while the market is ripe for their product, fully knowing at some point the game very well could end. This is also not an attempt to bash the Villages, I love this place and have invested a sizable chunk of our retirement savings in our home with eyes wide open. Where else in the world can I wake up every morning with beautiful weather and spend my day enjoying an active lifestyle with more amenities than the day is long, all accessible by a golf cart? If there is blame for the lack of diversification in the local economy it would logically fall on the civic leaders for allowing the current situation to manifest itself. It’s easy to see how this happened, the economic benefits of growth are real and substantial (in the short term) and putting the brakes on growth would make those responsible very unpopular, even if they were doing it for the right long term reasons. There are numerous examples of other areas where rapid growth of a non-diversified economic base have not turned out well in the long term. See the rust belt, former proud mill towns that are now in economic ruin, and the once proud city of Hartford, CT, which was once dubbed the insurance city.

Eventually growth has to end as physical space limitations and market saturation are inevitable. There are many fully mature areas in our country that are doing just fine without growth because they got to where they are by growing slowly and responsibly over a long time, resulting in thriving well diversified economies. Unfortunately, this area is not following that path, and cracks are already starting to show. Look no further than the services demanded by all us retired senior citizens. The health care in this area is woefully substandard and the area can’t attract young professionals, restaurants and retail establishments can’t find help, service providers like HVAC and irrigation specialist aren’t accepting new customers, etc……. Despite this, the short term elixir of growth says let’s keep building up this non diversified economic base as fast as houses will sell? This short term mindset is very dangerous and is not being set up to end well. At most Villagers ages, the eventual crash and burn will probably not happen during our lifetime so it’s easy to look the other way, that’s what I do as at my age I’m not looking to change the world, just enjoy the remaining years as much as possible because you never know when your number will be called. But don’t kid yourself, this non diversified economy is not sustainable in the long run. Here is hoping our kids will still be able to sell our homes at a good price when we are gone?

Enough of this, I need to go swimming, golfing, biking, play some pickleball, and dance with my wife, time is a wasting!

Your post makes much sense but I have to laugh at the last paragraph. That pretty much covers the activities in our northern state.

Swimming, golfing in summer, dancing.. only we can enjoy that even if it rains, biking and pickleball. Indoor facilities create great opportunities. When not golfing in the winter months, it’s a great time to volunteer and give back. People walk much more in the northern states and don’t jump in a golf cart at every opportunity so they don’t have to walk. They also don’t watch the clock so they can start drinking.

The Villages is perfect for some, not the cup of tea though, that many signed up for when they arrived. Those individuals don’t need to be enlightened as to why they need to embrace this retirement development. They no longer care for it. Life is all about choices and raising questions about their current home helps make their decision.

The vision of the bloated population thumb of this state against the rest of the US is compelling. In 2022, Florida was the fastest growing state which is probably great news if one moved here from Manhattan. For others, that is not great news. There is no wrong choice or perfect location, just enjoy what floats your boat.

As a side note, we currently know three couples leaving The Villages but that makes room for those who will embrace it.

[Villages Kahuna]

Many good observations, Don. But I would only say that if you’d like to l live in a small town environment, The Villages isn’t the right place for you.

My wife and I moved here when the Mallory mail station was pretty much the furthest thing on the south end of The Villages. The population was about 35,000 and the pace of construction didn’t seem to be anything remotely close to the current rate. Our bottom line — if we visited and saw the way The Villages looks now, without question we wouldn’t buy a house here now.

The current Villages isn’t “bad”, it just wouldn’t be for us.

[MJCtalk]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

If all this growth and wealth is being created, why do the retired homeowners in The Villages see their taxes and maintenance fees rising regularly, along with insurance and utilities, while the developers grow wealthier? Where does their greed end? Their income is rising tremendously while we lose ground with every one of these cost increases. I'd love to see some responses to this.

[MJCtalk]

If all this growth and wealth is being created, why do the retired homeowners in The Villages see their taxes and maintenance fees rising regularly, along with insurance and utilities, while the developers grow wealthier? Where does their greed end? Their income is rising tremendously while we lose ground with every one of these cost increases. I'd love to see some responses to this.

[VApeople]

Originally Posted by jrandall

they have produced a model of community living that thousands have found desirable. However they have stayed and grown with the population. I am grateful.

That is how we feel. We moved here 7 years ago and we enjoy living in The Villages more than ever, especially since they have made the numerous walking/biking trails.

Yesterday we went to Newell to enjoy their walking trails and then we went to Marco's for a pizza. It was a very enjoyable drive, just like when were dating in 1970. We drove along along Meggison in the evening, caught Buena Vista, and then took 466A over to Trailwinds. Then we drove home and enjoyed our pizza.

Life here is good for us.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Beyond The Wall

Wrong amenities being built first

Need another
“Full size square” south of 44.

One is currently being built... Eastport...

Just looked through open tee times for Thursday. 85% of available time are on pitch and putts! Obvious need for more Executive courses , especially south of 44!

One is currently being built. Several more are planned...

Same with the Championship Courses...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MJCtalk

If all this growth and wealth is being created, why do the retired homeowners in The Villages see their taxes and maintenance fees rising regularly, along with insurance and utilities, while the developers grow wealthier? Where does their greed end? Their income is rising tremendously while we lose ground with every one of these cost increases. I'd love to see some responses to this.

The Developers don't control your taxes, your utilities, or your insurance rates...

The only thing they control are the amenities fees, which, imho, are a bargain for what you get in return...

[ASR1515]

Excellent points Don. Thank you for the detailed, and in my view accurate, response.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Travelhunter123

Is there a “readers digest”version of this

Cheap shot.🤦

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by rustyp

Yes - "It's good to be king".

Another cheap shot……..

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I understand that some people bought in TV to retire to a quiet community for the rest of their lives. For some it’s not going to happen. TV promotes activities, fun etc not so much geriatric care. Just look at the layout. Then the population. Not everyone expected huge growth and the good and bad that comes with it. People appreciate the more and higher quality service, better choice at stores and good restaurants. For these events there has to be sustainable numbers in the population. But, it comes at a cost, more traffic, more line ups, more like the big city.

Some of the big city services are lagging in TV, for example, sidewalks and public transportation just to name two. And the city of TV is oriented towards the younger people, in my opinion, the ones who buy the houses. The ones who will play golf, softball, water volleyball. The houses are built to accommodate aging, one level, bars, wide doorways etc. But in practice you can only stay here if either you are independent or if you become dependent, you have a caregiver. Often it is the husband that becomes dependent as the wives tend to be younger. We have many widows in TV, single older women. They can leave, find independent or nursing care especially if they can’t drive. I suppose there could be a larger effort made to keep these people. More services. Build more independent care etc so they could stay with their friends who have now become their “family”. But that would perhaps not be quite as lucrative.

Seems this is no different than many other parts of the country.

[Aloha1]

Once again, Don Wiley gives a very reasoned and educated comment about this area we live in and are part of. Is TV for everyone? Of course not. But for those who appreciate the opportunity to live here, it's Nirvana. It's people like Don, who help make TV a great place to live. Kudos.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Your post makes much sense but I have to laugh at the last paragraph. That pretty much covers the activities in our northern state.

Swimming, golfing in summer, dancing.. only we can enjoy that even if it rains, biking and pickleball. Indoor facilities create great opportunities. When not golfing in the winter months, it’s a great time to volunteer and give back. People walk much more in the northern states and don’t jump in a golf cart at every opportunity so they don’t have to walk. They also don’t watch the clock so they can start drinking.

The Villages is perfect for some, not the cup of tea though, that many signed up for when they arrived. Those individuals don’t need to be enlightened as to why they need to embrace this retirement development. They no longer care for it. Life is all about choices and raising questions about their current home helps make their decision.

The vision of the bloated population thumb of this state against the rest of the US is compelling. In 2022, Florida was the fastest growing state which is probably great news if one moved here from Manhattan. For others, that is not great news. There is no wrong choice or perfect location, just enjoy what floats your boat.

As a side note, we currently know three couples leaving The Villages but that makes room for those who will embrace it.

Knowing of couples leaving is not a new phenomenon, twenty years ago when we bought our first home, there were people leaving. A blanket statement “they are leaving” doesn’t cut it….there are many reasons……

[TomPerry]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

The Village of Richmond that just opened in the past few months? Yes, all those things were built before Richmond but so were many hundreds of other homes in the area. I was reading these boards as people south of 44 and south of the turnpike were lamenting the absence of bridges to get to Brownwood, any form of town square, and any shopping at all. Plus, Sawgrass and Edna's are not equivalent to a Brownwood. Richmond is not even close to the FIRST HOME built.

To expect those amenities to be open before the first home may be NUTS but it is the very definition of "amenities continue to be built first."

Could you please provide me with ANY Developer literature that says all the amenities are built before the first house is built. You have been here since 2014, your home has greatly appreciated, so you can sell your home at a great profit and move to a fully developed small mobile home community and not have to worry about future growth.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by TomPerry

Could you please provide me with ANY Developer literature that says all the amenities are built before the first house is built. You have been here since 2014, your home has greatly appreciated, so you can sell your home at a great profit and move to a fully developed small mobile home community and not have to worry about future growth.

That claim has been made in several previous posts, including the one that I replied to. If you take the time to read the entire thread you will see that for yourself.

Moving to a fully-developed community where there is no worry about future growth.... sounds like the Villages when the they made it to 44. And then it wasn't.