[G.R.I.T.S.]

The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples.

It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.

So I’m guessing you’re planning to sell to avoid this? Values are good, even in the historical section. Might be a good time to cut bait.

[Velvet]

I understand that some people bought in TV to retire to a quiet community for the rest of their lives. For some it’s not going to happen. TV promotes activities, fun etc not so much geriatric care. Just look at the layout. Then the population. Not everyone expected huge growth and the good and bad that comes with it. People appreciate the more and higher quality service, better choice at stores and good restaurants. For these events there has to be sustainable numbers in the population. But, it comes at a cost, more traffic, more line ups, more like the big city.

Some of the big city services are lagging in TV, for example, sidewalks and public transportation just to name two. And the city of TV is oriented towards the younger people, in my opinion, the ones who buy the houses. The ones who will play golf, softball, water volleyball. The houses are built to accommodate aging, one level, bars, wide doorways etc. But in practice you can only stay here if either you are independent or if you become dependent, you have a caregiver. Often it is the husband that becomes dependent as the wives tend to be younger. We have many widows in TV, single older women. They can leave, find independent or nursing care especially if they can’t drive. I suppose there could be a larger effort made to keep these people. More services. Build more independent care etc so they could stay with their friends who have now become their “family”. But that would perhaps not be quite as lucrative.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by alwann

Was building amenities first and then homes an effective strategy? If yes, why is south of 44 different?

Ah yes. The myth that will not die.

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

They will keep building for more years than we will be around. They are making tons of money so why would anyone think they should or would stop building.

Exactly right. And why should they?

[jrandall]

Thank you for this well written explanation of the planned growth of the County, including The Villages, which is spot on! I for one, who moved from Miami 11 years ago , am grateful to live in The Villages and Sumter County. I am grateful for the Developers who have maintained a beautiful location for all of us for 30+ years and they continue. I have lived in other developments in Florida during my 48 years here and when the developers are done they pack ip and leave. Within 5 years the development doesn’t look like it did when you bought there. A resident Board takes over the Homeowners Association. Things deteriorate from there. I am grateful for the professionalism of the County and other surrounding city leadership and look forward to remaining here until The Lord takes me home. Thank you for your service Commissioner. You and the leadership Team of Sumter County have my support as you work with the community to ensure we remain a solvent and vibrant with keeping crime down as a high priority.


QUOTE =Goldwingnut;2197117]I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.[/QUOTE]

[jrandall]

The Commissioner said that it is ok for a business to make a profit and of course they have benefitted well. That is because they have produced a model of community living that thousands have found desirable. However they have stayed and grown with the population. I am grateful.




QUOTE=OrangeBlossomBaby;2197194]There will come a point in time when the developers will say "we've decided we really don't want to expand further, we're kinda finished here." Some descendent of the Morse Family will say "Nah, I'm gonna be a doctor instead." And that'll be the end of development of The Villages. That will also be the day when all those construction jobs are cut off. It will happen, eventually. There is only so far the developer -can- develop. The state has edges, it's not infinite.

It's an upside down pyramid. The Developer is on the bottom, alone. Everyone else is spread out on top, in layer upon layer of responsibility and benefit. The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples. The bigger the pile on top of them, the more disastrous the result.

As for your question - we moved into a pre-owned in the "Historic" section for precisely the reason that we wanted something that was lived-in and established. There wasn't enough money or perks in the world to convince us to move to the new sections. Even now that you've crossed Florida's Turnpike and 44, the furthest south I'd even consider would be the northern half of the O'Dell circle. And that'd be pretty iffy. It would definitely not be my first choice but I'd consider it, if we ever decided to move from our current location.

In addition, not everyone profited off their jobs and saved up to afford to live here. Many of us borrowed. Some of us are paying mortgages, and there are plenty of Villagers who still work for a living because they can't afford to retire yet, or aren't old enough for social security benefits yet, and never earned enough to invest like some of you have. Some of us were fortunate enough to have bought our northern homes at what was a reasonable price at the time - not as an investment, but as a home we lived in for 10+ years. And were equally fortunate to be able to sell that home for more than we paid for it - which wasn't a business decision, it's just how the market was at the time we ended up being forced to move when we lost our jobs due to company closures and a tight hiring environment in mostly-obsolete skilled trades. After paying off the balance of the mortgage, we had enough to pay a sizeable portion of our Florida home, but nowhere near the full amount.

I don't begrudge anyone for wanting something shiny and new to call their own in their retirement. But painting it all as the developer wanting to help the communities and keep people working - is disingenuous. The good news, is that SOME of those construction workers will still be needed to replace homes in the -northern- part of the Villages, as they start wearing down and need replacing. But if everyone working for the construction company (which has direct ties to the developer don't forget - so this is totally not a selfless act, the developer makes mega-bucks) is living in the southern-most areas, they're going to have the same kind of commute to get to work in the northern area, than they have now living 30+ miles from the current construction.

It isn't sustainable. At some point, the structure will crumble.[/QUOTE]

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Altavia

By definition Amenities are things funded by the bonds and are built first.

Restaurants, stores, etc. are commercial development built once the population reaches the critical mass for profitable business.

...

The bond part of that was discussed above.

Defining amenities as those things that are built first and then stating that amenities are always built first is a bit circular, isn't it? Perhaps a better definition of amenities would be the pools, rec centers, and executive golf courses. And yes, with that definition some of them have been built first.

- Pools and neighborhood rec centers are likely completed before the homes are occupied

- Regional rec centers are not always completed first - Okahumpka Rec Center *might* have been opened before Richmond but certainly wasn't open before other neighborhoods close by

- I believe I saw in another thread that several golf courses are soon to be open. I suppose it's arguable whether they are Richmond amenities that were not completed first or whether they "belong" to the villages that are not yet completed.

But overall, much of the amenities are completed before homes are occupied.

There could be a longer discussion about expectations and where those expectations came from but that is probably best left to another thread.

[jimjamuser]

At about paragraphs 9 and 10, CRIME is discussed. It is stated, "crime picks an easy target such as seniors and UNOCCUPIED homes" (snowbirds). This has NOT changed since the INCEPTION of the 1st Village. Personally, I have had $5,000 worth of tools stolen (crime NEVER solved and nothing returned). The Villages will ALWAYS be a Bubble occupied by RICH, mostly caucasian, OLDER, and more VULNERABLE people. The Villages seems to have plenty of medical doctors and veterinarians to survive the senior population. Personally, I don't feel that the POLICE presence is NOT ADEQUATE as compared to the medical presence........it is TOO BAD that the medical and doggy docs are NOT required to be part-time Policepeople. Then we ALL could feel safe from crime ( that was a joke.......for those that get confused by dry humor)
.........The Villages also needs to try some innovative things (like England) and have neighborhood cameras monitored by experts that can call in a rapid Police response to an ongoing crime. How about dirigibles with cameras and remote control? There is a Villages club that can fly rovers and could help with that technology.
...........With or without large-scale unemployment, The Villages will always be a target due to its wealth being many times greater that the surrounding locals' wealth.
...........Right now, today the whole US has relatively LOW unemployment. BUT, big but, MURDERS have been on the rise for the last several years.
.........At about Paragraph 10, this statement was made," History has shown that crime WOULD spike with UNEMPLOYMENT. I would contend that crime is SPIKING as we speak. The statistics for nationwide MURDERS prove that. It won't matter whether The Villages expands or NOT - I believe that crime will increase here in The Villages if nothing is improved as far as Police presence and/or improved crime-preventing technology is PURCHASED.
..........Recent visitors that I have talked with from UP NORTH who were SCOUTING out The Villages for possible home purchase were 1st taken aback by the constant news of murders in Orlando and then they were perplexed about the lack of Police release of information about the Applebees GUN violence. It seemed like the wild west to them. They have scratched Florida off for their re-location plans. Incidentally, they tried the beaches around Sarasota and were sickened by the RED TIDE they encountered. And they were further SICKENED by the lack of warning and the reporting about Red Tide. They felt like they fell into a trap of limited information and maybe even the Florida Chamber of Commerce PURPOSEFULLY misleading people as to the health problem they encountered. I advised them to visit the Carolinas because of the summer HEAT problems in Florida.
......Basically, Florida in general has many HIDDEN problems (including roads and excess traffic) that DO NOT seem to be being ADDRESSED. These problems will eventually come to the attention of the majority of retirees that are potential Villages home BUYERS. You can't fool ALL the potential buyers ALL the time. That could become more evident and hit just at the time that The Villages is TRYING to expand.
...........So, does The Villages' future expansiveness seem prudent and LIKELY to happen............................................ ............................MAYBE ???????

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

One I have is---were y'all happy where you once came from and if so, why did you move?? What were/are your expectations once you did??

Great question, and the simple answer is some people are only happy when they are complaining.

[Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I would like to comment on 2 separate, but related issues brought out in this thread - GROWTH and CRIME.
........Stated in about the 4th paragraph from the end, "Growth is INEVITABLE". Just as some humor........I was taught that ONLY DEATH and TAXES were inevitable. Now to be serious - at a micro level (The Villages growth) may be or seem to be inevitable - I could agree with that. But, at a macro level GROWTH in general depends on the continuing growth of the POPULATION of the US. I often use the term OPTIMAL population growth. For example, does China have the OPTIMAL growth for itself - apparently NOT as is apparent from the CLOUDS of pollution seen over ALL their big cities? America and Americans do NOT want their country to become OVERPOPULATED as China is. In China, right now, their government IS begging its population to have MORE children. And the people are saying NO. Their lives SUCK partly because they have gone PAST their point of OPTIMAL population. THAT is obvious to even myself, an ordinary citizen!
.........So, I put in that 1st paragraph as proof that things turn "and go south" when a population (any population, even Lemmings) exceeds its OPTIMAL NUMBER. Incidentally, that is why NATURE and Lemmings control ANIMAL POPULATIONS the way that it does. Why IS that important, you ask? Because mankind (humans) can fail to follow the laws of NATURE (AND POPULATIONS) for a LIMITED amount of time before things go "haywire". Think about CO2 killing coral reefs and dead spots in the Gulf of MEXICO. And record temperatures in the Gulf last year. And Global Warming that is predicted for the next 8 to 30 years.
........Florida is VERY VULNERABLE to HEAT increases as we saw with Hurricane IAN. Many northern visitors that WOULD buy property in the Villages are turned off by the summer HEAT and the prospects for KILLER hurricanes and tornadoes in the increasing HEAT of the Florida summers. Plus humidity, which is hard on an elderly person's body and health. Many of these people are looking to North and South Carolina as better locations with a temperate climate as opposed to a "HEAT chamber" like Florida!
.........What then is the OPTIMAL population for the US? I would propose that like China, we are PAST that number. 250 MILLION would be my best guess as to the Optimal US population. Note that US women are delaying having children so as to advance their careers. NOW, of course, the US can ALWAYS get migrants (legal or otherwise) because the US is a magnet for that - we are the "Gold Mountain" in their eyes. But, the question is whether large-scale immigration is going to be OPTIMAL from a numbers and EVEN a "changing demographic" basis ?
........The overall POINT IS that there are factors that could mitigate in the future AGAINST the "GROWTH is INEVITABLE" proposition.

Well, if everyone left their deadbeat, grown kids back where they come from, the crime stats would probably drop by 80 percent rapidly.

[richdell]

Great post. Thanks, Don.

[tophcfa]

Very interesting read. It could be summarized by saying this place represents a game of musical chairs, and growth is the music, so growth needs to be fully embraced because when it stops the game will end, and the end won’t be pretty. Although I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise, I find it extremely disturbing that this is the situation that exists.

Anyone with extensive education and experience in business, investments, or civil leadership fully understands that diversification of risk is absolutely essential for both long term success as well as stability and sustainability. What we have here is an economy that is practically the opposite, it is based on the growth of one core industry (a retirement community) and the services demanded by it’s clientele. This lack of risk diversification is akin to one having their entire life’s savings invested in a single asset, which no prudent investment professional would ever recommend.

This is not by any means an anti-developer statement, I would never find fault in a private business looking to maximize profits while the market is ripe for their product, fully knowing at some point the game very well could end. This is also not an attempt to bash the Villages, I love this place and have invested a sizable chunk of our retirement savings in our home with eyes wide open. Where else in the world can I wake up every morning with beautiful weather and spend my day enjoying an active lifestyle with more amenities than the day is long, all accessible by a golf cart? If there is blame for the lack of diversification in the local economy it would logically fall on the civic leaders for allowing the current situation to manifest itself. It’s easy to see how this happened, the economic benefits of growth are real and substantial (in the short term) and putting the brakes on growth would make those responsible very unpopular, even if they were doing it for the right long term reasons. There are numerous examples of other areas where rapid growth of a non-diversified economic base have not turned out well in the long term. See the rust belt, former proud mill towns that are now in economic ruin, and the once proud city of Hartford, CT, which was once dubbed the insurance city.

Eventually growth has to end as physical space limitations and market saturation are inevitable. There are many fully mature areas in our country that are doing just fine without growth because they got to where they are by growing slowly and responsibly over a long time, resulting in thriving well diversified economies. Unfortunately, this area is not following that path, and cracks are already starting to show. Look no further than the services demanded by all us retired senior citizens. The health care in this area is woefully substandard and the area can’t attract young professionals, restaurants and retail establishments can’t find help, service providers like HVAC and irrigation specialist aren’t accepting new customers, etc……. Despite this, the short term elixir of growth says let’s keep building up this non diversified economic base as fast as houses will sell? This short term mindset is very dangerous and is not being set up to end well. At most Villagers ages, the eventual crash and burn will probably not happen during our lifetime so it’s easy to look the other way, that’s what I do as at my age I’m not looking to change the world, just enjoy the remaining years as much as possible because you never know when your number will be called. But don’t kid yourself, this non diversified economy is not sustainable in the long run. Here is hoping our kids will still be able to sell our homes at a good price when we are gone?

Enough of this, I need to go swimming, golfing, biking, play some pickleball, and dance with my wife, time is a wasting!

[larbud]

When it takes four hours to drive to ocala maybe then they’ll quit..

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Very interesting read. It could be summarized by saying this place represents a game of musical chairs, and growth is the music, so growth needs to be fully embraced because when it stops the game will end, and the end won’t be pretty. Although I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise, I find it extremely disturbing that this is the situation that exists.

Anyone with extensive education and experience in business, investments, or civil leadership fully understands that diversification of risk is absolutely essential for both long term success as well as stability and sustainability. What we have here is an economy that is practically the opposite, it is based on the growth of one core industry (a retirement community) and the services demanded by it’s clientele. This lack of risk diversification is akin to one having their entire life’s savings invested in a single asset, which no prudent investment professional would ever recommend.

This is not by any means an anti-developer statement, I would never find fault in a private business looking to maximize profits while the market is ripe for their product, fully knowing at some point the game very well could end. This is also not an attempt to bash the Villages, I love this place and have invested a sizable chunk of our retirement savings in our home with eyes wide open. Where else in the world can I wake up every morning with beautiful weather and spend my day enjoying an active lifestyle with more amenities than the day is long, all accessible by a golf cart? If there is blame for the lack of diversification in the local economy it would logically fall on the civic leaders for allowing the current situation to manifest itself. It’s easy to see how this happened, the economic benefits of growth are real and substantial (in the short term) and putting the brakes on growth would make those responsible very unpopular, even if they were doing it for the right long term reasons. There are numerous examples of other areas where rapid growth of a non-diversified economic base have not turned out well in the long term. See the rust belt, former proud mill towns that are now in economic ruin, and the once proud city of Hartford, CT, which was once dubbed the insurance city.

Eventually growth has to end as physical space limitations and market saturation are inevitable. There are many fully mature areas in our country that are doing just fine without growth because they got to where they are by growing slowly and responsibly over a long time, resulting in thriving well diversified economies. Unfortunately, this area is not following that path, and cracks are already starting to show. Look no further than the services demanded by all us retired senior citizens. The health care in this area is woefully substandard and the area can’t attract young professionals, restaurants and retail establishments can’t find help, service providers like HVAC and irrigation specialist aren’t accepting new customers, etc……. Despite this, the short term elixir of growth says let’s keep building up this non diversified economic base as fast as houses will sell? This short term mindset is very dangerous and is not being set up to end well. At most Villagers ages, the eventual crash and burn will probably not happen during our lifetime so it’s easy to look the other way, that’s what I do as at my age I’m not looking to change the world, just enjoy the remaining years as much as possible because you never know when your number will be called. But don’t kid yourself, this non diversified economy is not sustainable in the long run. Here is hoping our kids will still be able to sell our homes at a good price when we are gone?

Enough of this, I need to go swimming, golfing, biking, play some pickleball, and dance with my wife, time is a wasting!

Great comments and you are 100% on track with the need for diversification. Sumter County and its 5 cities are actively and aggressively working on this very issue and making great progress. In addition to a strong and vibrant agriculture community/economy there are several businesses recently locating here in Sumter County and many more being courted to locate here. Most residents of The Villages are unaware of this growth outside of "the bubble" due in large part to the fact that most are "retired" and not as actively involved in the business community as they may have once been.
You are spot on that the perceived relatively low diversification is not sustainable for the long term. Again, this has been recognized by local leadership and efforts continue on many fronts to plan for an eventual change in the local economic structure, it is a huge and slow-moving task. Fortunately, our current economic driver has and continues to demonstrate a long-term commitment to the community and economy.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That's a fair response to my concerns. I am still conflicted with what "local civic leaders" need to do, because it's pretty much common knowledge that the family that runs the Developer, the mortgage company, the bank, the insurance broker, a financial stake in the construction company, a sizeable chunk of the county's land, and the real estate that leases to the majority of businesses in or near the borders of the Villages - has some major influence over what "the local civic leaders" choose to do.

They do what the Developer wants them to do.

Valid concerns to be sure, it come down to the P word, can I say people should be politically active, involved, sensitive without running afoul of the moderators ,, the bottom line is one can always vote with their feet