[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Altavia

Really?

If you watch Don's videos, amenities continue to be built first...

My home about a mile north of Brownwood was built in 2014. Brownwood Paddock Square opened two years earlier in 2012. Can the same be said for the Sawgrass or Eastport?

I have no idea about the timing of the homes and golf courses around Brownwood or Lake Sumter Landing but I get the impression that there are a lot of homes south of 44 with few courses. There appear to be seven executive courses and three championship courses between 466A and 44. There appear to be only five executive courses and one championship course to support all the development south of 44. It looks like more are being built but they are not being built first.

[TomPerry]

Don, you are spot on! As a retired CPA/Financial Advisor who has advised many successful business clients, I can say your thoughtful and detailed explanation is the most complete and well said answer to those who think The Villages is getting too big and the developers are only thinking of making more money. You make me proud that I voted for you!!

[Goldwingnut]

Nowhere here am I saying that the developer isn't doing this for the money, because they most certainly are, nor am I saying that the developer is being altruistic because they are not, what I am saying is that they understand their business, that they understand how governments and communities think and react, and that doing what is perceived as good for the community as a whole and by playing the long game is a good investment in their own business.
They have another 20+ years of growth in the current Villages as we know it based on current known and anticipated land ownership. They have many thousands of additional acres owned throughout Sumter and surrounding counties, what their plans are, are well guarded secrets. What is certain is that local civic leaders need to be planning ahead for the time when the developer starts to change direction and our local economies need to take a different tack from the current course. But who knows, another 20 years is another 70,000+ homes, this will probably be the retirement capital of the world, should we all be fortunate to live so long, it will be interesting to watch happen.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

Nowhere here am I saying that the developer isn't doing this for the money, because they most certainly are, nor am I saying that the developer is being altruistic because they are not, what I am saying is that they understand their business, that they understand how governments and communities think and react, and that doing what is perceived as good for the community as a whole and by playing the long game is a good investment in their own business.
They have another 20+ years of growth in the current Villages as we know it based on current known and anticipated land ownership. They have many thousands of additional acres owned throughout Sumter and surrounding counties, what their plans are, are well guarded secrets. What is certain is that local civic leaders need to be planning ahead for the time when the developer starts to change direction and our local economies need to take a different tack from the current course. But who knows, another 20 years is another 70,000+ homes, this will probably be the retirement capital of the world, should we all be fortunate to live so long, it will be interesting to watch happen.

That's a fair response to my concerns. I am still conflicted with what "local civic leaders" need to do, because it's pretty much common knowledge that the family that runs the Developer, the mortgage company, the bank, the insurance broker, a financial stake in the construction company, a sizeable chunk of the county's land, and the real estate that leases to the majority of businesses in or near the borders of the Villages - has some major influence over what "the local civic leaders" choose to do.

They do what the Developer wants them to do.

[jimdecastro]

When I was looking at TV, I asked my Dad about a month before he died about its size as a concern. His answer (paraphrased).

"It is not a 100,000 people in a city, it is 50 or so communities. You will know many of yours but not many 2-3 Villages away. In West Islip, you don't even know the guy down the block. Put another way, I lived in Brooklyn. But I didn't grow up in Brooklyn - or even Williamsburg. I grew up on Stockholm St."

Wise Man.

[TomPerry]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

My home about a mile north of Brownwood was built in 2014. Brownwood Paddock Square opened two years earlier in 2012. Can the same be said for the Sawgrass or Eastport?

I have no idea about the timing of the homes and golf courses around Brownwood or Lake Sumter Landing but I get the impression that there are a lot of homes south of 44 with few courses. There appear to be seven executive courses and three championship courses between 466A and 44. There appear to be only five executive courses and one championship course to support all the development south of 44. It looks like more are being built but they are not being built first.

The Village of Richmond was built AFTER Sawgrass Grove Opened and a couple of years AFTER the Executive Courses and Southern Oaks Championship Golf Course and AFTER Magnolia Plaza and AFTER Edna’s On The Green. To expect all those amenities be opened before THE FIRST HOME is built is Nuts! Amenities are built in conjunction with the building of homes.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by jimdecastro

When I was looking at TV, I asked my Dad about a month before he died about its size as a concern. His answer (paraphrased).

"It is not a 100,000 people in a city, it is 50 or so communities. You will know many of yours but not many 2-3 Villages away. In West Islip, you don't even know the guy down the block. Put another way, I lived in Brooklyn. But I didn't grow up in Brooklyn - or even Williamsburg. I grew up on Stockholm St."

Wise Man.

I see your point, and I agree with it. One day a golfing buddy mentioned to me that viewed from the satellite images ,The Villages looks like a huge area all covered with similar looking homes , and all you can see is roofs.

I said, yeah, but I don't live up there. I live down here, in a neighborhood with trees. I grew up in a suburb of Cincinnati, and I lived on my street, and went to my school, in the northeast quadrant of Greater Cincinnati. I never went to the other suburban communities that existed on the western fringes.

Here in TV I live a 40 minute cart ride from Lopez, and an equal distance from Southern Oaks. I don't see myself needing to commute any farther than that to play golf. As they build courses farther away than Southern Oaks, I will play them only rarely, as a novelty, and probably drive a car. I'd treat it like a road trip.

I don't see a problem there.

I am a bit concerned about what seems to be a trend to build the common areas with less quality (e.g. the MMPs) and a system that I don't understand but according to Don Wiley's explanation, puts those of us south of 466 and north of 44 on the hook to maintain them when they fail. Not crazy about that, but in the bigger picture, a relatively small price to pay for the overall value I derive from living in TV.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by alwann

Was building amenities first and then homes an effective strategy? If yes, why is south of 44 different?

Very effective.
The strategy continued South.
Golf, pools, rec. centers, pickle, etc., were all constructed first.

[NoMo50]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It's an upside down pyramid. The Developer is on the bottom, alone. Everyone else is spread out on top, in layer upon layer of responsibility and benefit. The moment the Developer says they're done, EVERYONE topples. The bigger the pile on top of them, the more disastrous the result.

I don't buy that theory, and further, I'm glad I don't wake up every day with such a pessimistic attitude toward our community.

The Developer is just what the word implies...a developer of property. When a particular area's development has been completed, the communities are turned over to a CDD. The Developer never intended to be a mother hen, looking after her flock into perpetuity.

Ever hear of Del Webb? They are another successful developer of retirement communities, albeit with a totally different strategy. Del Webb communities tend to be smaller, and more isolated/individual as compared to The Villages. Once Del Webb completes a project/development, they vacate the area and turn the whole project over to an HOA. Yet, they continue to prosper and be popular even without their mother hen.

I, for one, am glad The Villages developer has opted to play the long game, and I hope they continue to make a profit. Their business model is what has provided the communities we all call home. Their continued success means that we will continue to enjoy the benefits that brought us here in the first place.

[RobinM]

Thank you for taking the time for this.

[talonip]

Thank you for your insight. As usual you are right on. We have lived here for almost 10 years and love seeing the new areas being developed. However that doesn’t mean that we turn our backs on some areas of concern.

First is the 462 and 466A intersection. That is going to be disaster on Sundays. We go to church at St Vincent. It is becoming insane getting to and especially getting out on Sunday. The pastor says they are gonna cut a new exit out to 134. That will help a little but when all that new development opens on 462 it will get unbearable.

Secondly the entrance to St John’s at the okahumka rec center is going to be a real problem. If you drive your car to get your mail you are faced with having to use the round a bout to get back in when the card reader goes into effect. Poor planning. In my opinion. If you haven’t heard about this take a drive and study the traffic pattern coming out and going back into the village.

By the way I think we need to decide if Harry is going build his restaurant at okuhumka rec and if not clean up that area. It looks like a dump for construction materials

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by TomPerry

The Village of Richmond was built AFTER Sawgrass Grove Opened and a couple of years AFTER the Executive Courses and Southern Oaks Championship Golf Course and AFTER Magnolia Plaza and AFTER Edna’s On The Green. To expect all those amenities be opened before THE FIRST HOME is built is Nuts! Amenities are built in conjunction with the building of homes.

The Village of Richmond that just opened in the past few months? Yes, all those things were built before Richmond but so were many hundreds of other homes in the area. I was reading these boards as people south of 44 and south of the turnpike were lamenting the absence of bridges to get to Brownwood, any form of town square, and any shopping at all. Plus, Sawgrass and Edna's are not equivalent to a Brownwood. Richmond is not even close to the FIRST HOME built.

To expect those amenities to be open before the first home may be NUTS but it is the very definition of "amenities continue to be built first."

[DanMac58]

"To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival."

"But my house should have been the last one built" LOL

Thank you, Don, for your service to our community

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

Great info and explanations. We thank you for them.

On a smaller scale and remembering the residents that HAVE scraped to live here, those sold on the "lifestyle"...

They can build a city. Can they open a movie theater so residents, sold on the "lifestyle" of say driving a golf cart to a movie with the grand-kids can do so??

Seriously, it's not about workers or covid, plenty of elderly people were working there to subsidize income. Cost to purchase a movie to run it? Nah, can't be cost could it? They can build a city.

The Brownwood theater is gorgeous and is a perfect eample of TV developers, moving on. What's the excuse when they can move mountains and change the world for years to come. Villagers saying "Leesburg theater is great..." - WHAT??? DOES the trolley tour go to Leesburg now?

Call it a trivial "first world problem" if one wants but it is a fair example of they build and move on. S of 44, you can see a BIG change brewing that will impact the parts of T V where they have moved on.

[Travelhunter123]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

I saw the response below to a previous post of mine and I thought I would share my thoughts on growth. I have no obligation or loyalty to The Villages developer beyond the same responsibilities I have towards each and every resident and business in Sumter County, my thoughts and opinions below, come from looking at things from a business perspective and as a resident of the county and our community.



I aways love this question and it many variations. Here's my take on it.

First, the developer isn't short sighted, and they know where this community is going and where they will build many years in advance.

They are very good businesspeople and know how to make a profitable business – this is not a sin or something evil, it is exactly how each of us were able to be here, we made a profit in what we were doing for a living and saved some of it for retirement. A business exists to make a profit by providing a commodity that someone else wants.

Some of the keys to being profitable in business are knowing your customer, having a desirable product that people want, these they obviously mastered. Cost containment and pricing are also key factors to success. For this discussion, “knowing where your customers are” is the point to delve into.

For Brownwood to be successful as a business location it must be surrounded by its customer base, just like Lake Sumter Landing and Spanish Springs. As we see it today with the building of Richmond, St. Johns, and beyond, that is certainly the case. Had this not been planned all along and they were truly going to stop at SR44, Brownwood would likely be located where the Turman and Roosevelt executive courses are today.

Brownwood’s current location would have been a mistake when it was chosen over 25 years ago (watch the next 30 seconds of this video https://youtu.be/_GHKaJd-wKk?t=133 ) had they not been planning to move south of SR44. The problem was zoning, south of SR44 wasn’t zoned for this kind of development and until it was, Brownwood’s location was a huge gamble because it was out in the middle of nowhere Sumter County. Planning something like The Villages is multifaceted task that has to not only look at moving dirt, buying lumber and shingles, and building houses, it also requires looking at the economics of not only the end results but the process as it impact the local and regional economies, and understanding how to use that in the planning and long term goal process. Until many of the necessary things became solidified, “stopping at SR44” was a valid and true statement; they just weren’t showing their hold cards and what they were working on in the background.

I’ll sidetrack for just a minute here to the topic of “stopping at CR466A” that I’ve heard many were told or promised. This was pure ignorance for anyone to say or believe, and for some it was just dishonesty to hype sales. Let me explain, CDD5 was established on 3/19/2002 as the first CDD south of CR466, then on 2/10/2004 CDD6 was established, by 9/28/2004 CDD9 and CDD10 were established. The first homes built south of CR466 didn’t happen until sometime in 2004. So, if you bought south of CR466 and were told they’re not building south of CR466A, there was either ignorance or willful misinformation by the person providing the information, at the plans for south of CR466A were already well in progress.

Now back to SR44. As The Villages grew and progressed southward, it not only created new homes and communities that brought with it new commercial enterprises and a thriving economy, it also established and very strong construction industry that currently numbers in the 12-15,000 jobs for Sumter and surrounding counties. This growth created a growing and prosperous economy and tax base. A little long-term planning and thinking by civic leaders saw this growth as Lemmings running off a cliff (actually a myth created by Disney), with the cliff being SR44. If The Villages were to “stop building” at SR44, the economy of Sumter and neighboring counties and cities would feel a huge negative impact from the loss of thousands of construction jobs. The developer recognized this and planned accordingly and quietly for this.

Along with the job losses would come plummeting property values, loss of may more jobs as the workers moved away and took with them their families. Family members that also held jobs in the area; medical workers, commercial establishments, restaurants, secondary construction, landscaping, and many more. If you think that it’s hard now to find people to work, imagine how much worse it would be if the 15,000 workers lost their jobs and moved away.

Not all of course would move away, some would stay, but with few jobs, unemployment would go through the roof and as history has shown us, crime would also spike with the unemployment. Crime picks the easy targets, in the case of The Villages that would be senior citizens and lots of unoccupied homes (snowbirds).

The economy, crime, and unemployment are three of the biggest issues civic leaders have to deal with, if they don’t deal with these first, there is no way do also deal with things like infrastructure, roads, schools, and the myriad of other issues on their plates.

It is a difficult and delicate task for civic leaders to balance all the needs of the community, one cannot favor businesses over residents or residents over businesses, one cannot take an unwavering position on an issue such as growth without directly impacting, negatively or positively, other issues such as home values or employment. A great amount of flexibility is needed, and each individual issue must be evaluated on its merits and overall long- and short-term impact. In the case allowing The Villages to continue building south of 44, this was a decision that had to be made to preserve the economy of the entire area. We can now see in hindsight that the developer foresaw and planned ahead for this decision.

Many have said that Harold Schwartz would not have done what is happening today, I say this is bunk. The timing of what is happening today goes back to the 90’s when Mr. Schwartz as alive and actively involved in the planning and future development of The Villages. What we see today is a part of and a continuation of his dream. I never met the man, but I have spoken to many who knew him personally and worked and did business with him, they all agree that his outward persona of being everyone’s friend was true and genuine, but when it came to business he was a shrewd and as hard charging any of today’s business giants, and that business always came first.

Now our civic leaders, at all levels, are dealing with and addressing the domino issues of these decisions: schools, roads, businesses, and many more. They can’t over react or plan too far in the future as they have to live withing budgets that by their very nature, lag behind the growth, incurring debt to “get ahead” of an issue often turns to folly and a waste of money. The counties and cities around us are investing and planning for the growth, much of it is very well thought out. The perception of some is that nothing is happening, hardly the case, sometimes the perception of “too much traffic” is simply more that it used to be but sill less than the current design capacities. Many times there are additional issues that the average resident doesn’t know of or understand that cannot be ignored or dismissed before an issue, perceived or otherwise, is addressed; in the case of roadways right-of-way ownership and drainage are two areas that stumbling blocks that must always be addressed first as well as budget restraints.

Concerning other infrastructure such as utilities, this is a joint effort between developers and municipalities. Wildwood is currently dealing with an aging wastewater processing system that is reaching capacity due to the city’s growth outside of The Villages component. New apartment complexes, home development, and business are stressing these resources and Wildwood’s leaders have recently taken positive and decisive steps to address these. Fortunately, Wildwood is spared much of the stress on these systems caused by the growth of The Villages as water related infrastructure is basically self-contained within the development. The building of the massive Gibson Wastewater Treatment facility at 501/470 to serve the areas south of Monarch Grove down to Middleton an beyond, being done by the developer without impact to Wildwood’s systems is an example of this. The cities of Coleman, Webster, Center Hill, and Bushnell are also addressing issues of continued growth, working with each other and the county to address current and plan for future needs.

Growth is inevitable, how we deal with it is important. I believe that our local governments are now in responsible and forward-thinking hands, looking out for the overall good of the community and not that of a few individuals or entities. Many local activists and those on social media would want you to think otherwise, a very myopic and self-indulgent opinion, and not based on any facts.

To the many who believe things have gotten too big I ask you, did it get too big the day before or the day after you arrived? If it is too big for you, the roads go in both directions, but remember, if you leave, wherever you go next, it too may be getting “too big” because of your arrival.

Obviously this is a complex and involved topic, I could continue on for many more hours typing on the topic, but I’ll stop for now.

Please, if you have specific questions of me related to actions and plans of Sumter County, I would ask that you direct them to my county email address or call my office at the county and not ask me to address them here. I’ll discuss general topics, some of my opinions, and historical issues here, but always with an eye to being in compliance with the Florida Sunshine Laws and public records keeping requirements.

Is there a “readers digest”version of this