[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

WHO has rank in this mess? Are you being snarky about folks who live in Premier homes? That would be ignorant AND uncaring. There are lots of people who live in all kinds of homes all over this country who do damn awful stuff. AND get away with it. AND we all pay. We pay for tattoos and cell phones of people who deal drugs and don't report their income or pay for the support of their children...For starters.

The folks who selfishly and arrogantly went onto public property and cleared their view are wrong, but all the folks who live in that area are not complicit. There are many wonderful people who live there who had nothing to do with it and are mad and feel awful, I am sure. I don't think for a minute they had anything to do with it, most of them, or covered it up. I imagine they are all pretty sure WHO did it, because they have been at gatherings with folks who always act like their fannies weigh a ton.

Nice post Gracie....

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by dave harris

rank has privilege

How about helping us understand what your message is supposed to be?

[TheVillageChicken]

No data available yet for pillory sales.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

So this "donation" was from the Friends of Lake Miona and not from any guilty party? Is the FOLM an organized, incorporated group with more than one objective, and where do they get their funds? Bless them for their generous spirit, but this crime has not been solved, and should be.

Exactly. And as I have pointed out, this case appears to be solveable through subpoena of bank, credit card, and telephone records--as well as subpoena of potential witnesses.

What we are are seeing is a perversion of the criminal-justice system. Could a Villages burglar duck the whole system by anonymously returning the loot when things start to get hot? Incredible.

By the way, I would not object to a suspended sentence, fine, and restitution in this case. My objection is to the way this felony investigation has been handled and the lack of reporting as to what is going on. For example, what exactly is the deal that has been cut with the perpetrators' front organization, The Friends of Lake Miona, and the prosecutor? We are entitled to know.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

QUOTE=Challenger;1095359]Hmmmm- Total costs suffered by districts= +or- $100,000

Reimbursement from "someone" $25,000.

Apparantely someone has a smidgen of remorse or wants us to shut up.

Where does that $100,000 figure some from? How did it cost the districts anything because a few trees were cut down?[/QUOTE]

I am refering to posts that I read in a previous thread on ther matter. At least one poster indicated that there was an article in the on line News that the Fine was $30,000, replanting could cost from $40-50,000 . Another post indicated that the District woul be responsible for annual inspections and replanting, if necessary for 4-5 years at about $2500 per year.

Not quite $100,000 but a good bit more than the charitable offering of the "Friends."

If my numbers are not close enough or incorrect I would be happy to adopt the correct figures , if a knowlegable respondent can provide them.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Exactly. And as I have pointed out, this case appears to be solveable through subpoena of bank, credit card, and telephone records--as well as subpoena of potential witnesses.

What we are are seeing is a perversion of the criminal-justice system. Could a Villages burglar duck the whole system by anonymously returning the loot when things start to get hot? Incredible.

By the way, I would not object to a suspended sentence, fine, and restitution in this case. My objection is to the way this felony investigation has been handled and the lack of reporting as to what is going on. For example, what exactly is the deal that has been cut with the perpetrators' front organization, The Friends of Lake Miona, and the prosecutor? We are entitled to know.

Isn't the illegal clearing of these trees on publically owned property a crime against the citizens of Florida. If , so , how can anyone offer amnesty other than through judicial action?

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken

No data available yet for pillory sales.

Excellent cartoon!

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

So does privilege. This isn't about money or whose house is bigger. It's about fairness and justice.

You missed a couple posts.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Exactly. And as I have pointed out, this case appears to be solveable through subpoena of bank, credit card, and telephone records--as well as subpoena of potential witnesses.

What we are are seeing is a perversion of the criminal-justice system. Could a Villages burglar duck the whole system by anonymously returning the loot when things start to get hot? Incredible.

By the way, I would not object to a suspended sentence, fine, and restitution in this case. My objection is to the way this felony investigation has been handled and the lack of reporting as to what is going on. For example, what exactly is the deal that has been cut with the perpetrators' front organization, The Friends of Lake Miona, and the prosecutor? We are entitled to know.

How would their financial records make them look guilty? I would imagine it was a cash deal. And not that much either. I mean a withdrawal from someone's account of four or five hundred dollars to pay the tree cutters is NOT that noteworthy. I am afraid you wouldn't be a good writer for a crime series.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Isn't the illegal clearing of these trees on publically owned property a crime against the citizens of Florida. If , so , how can anyone offer amnesty other than through judicial action?

The fine has been paid and the trees have been replanted which satisfies the state agency that levied the fine.


Now the blood that someone wants and needs is a different story.


It is crummy and sordid and nasty and selfish and underhanded as hell but...you can't get blood out of a turnip.

[tuccillo]

You really don't know what you are going to find until you look.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

How would their financial records make them look guilty? I would imagine it was a cash deal. And not that much either. I mean a withdrawal from someone's account of four or five hundred dollars to pay the tree cutters is NOT that noteworthy. I am afraid you wouldn't be a good writer for a crime series.

[graciegirl]

The entity who has a reason to ask for that money now...is the entity that paid the fine and replanted the trees at their expense i.e.....the CDD. AND they are the ones that could negotiate.


According to the Constitution, one must have a reason to search that is valid and not frivolous. In other words you must supply an abundance of information to get a search warrant. The laws that protect the innocent also protect the guilty. You can't just say that it was behind their home. Which person exactly???? I am NOT defending the craponuses. I am just pointing out that witchhunts aren't legal.

[tuccillo]

This was addressed by Advogadro previously and I also looked into it. The burden of proof to get phone records is apparently less than what is needed to get a search warrant (such as actually tapping a phone). I don't mean to speak for Advogadro, but I believe his point was there are records that can be obtained as part of an investigation that don't require probable cause. I would hope that all possible investigative options were exhausted. We may never know.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

The entity who has a reason to ask for that money now...is the entity that paid the fine and replanted the trees at their expense i.e.....the CDD. AND they are the ones that could negotiate.


According to the Constitution, one must have a reason to search that is valid and not frivolous. In other words you must supply an abundance of information to get a search warrant. The laws that protect the innocent also protect the guilty. You can't just say that it was behind their home. Which person exactly???? I am NOT defending the craponuses. I am just pointing out that witchhunts aren't legal.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

The entity who has a reason to ask for that money now...is the entity that paid the fine and replanted the trees at their expense i.e.....the CDD. AND they are the ones that could negotiate.


According to the Constitution, one must have a reason to search that is valid and not frivolous. In other words you must supply an abundance of information to get a search warrant. The laws that protect the innocent also protect the guilty. You can't just say that it was behind their home. Which person exactly???? I am NOT defending the craponuses. I am just pointing out that witchhunts aren't legal.

Put politely, you have a total, utter, and complete misunderstanding of the fourth amendment and the law. Unlike a search warrant, no probable cause is required for a subpoena. Subpoenas are routinely issued as an investigative tool. Otherwise, no complex crimes would ever get solved.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Put politely, you have a total, utter, and complete misunderstanding of the fourth amendment and the law. Unlike a search warrant, no probable cause is required for a subpoena. Subpoenas are routinely issued as an investigative tool. Otherwise, no complex crimes would ever get solved.

Advogado you are right they are used to primarily as fact finding and issued when potential witnesses refuse to testify or turn over documents. I was on the civil side of investigation and subpoenas were routinely used to compel