[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I agree with this but if the vaccinated still carry and spread the virus and have breakthrough covid, we’re chasing our tails currently.

Not really---it ultimately becomes a game of declining percentages. Try googling "smallpox"

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Not really---it ultimately becomes a game of declining percentages. Try googling "smallpox"

I plead unaware here, do you mean the people vaccinated against smallpox continued to carry the variola virus and spread it in the fashion covid 19 does? And, if so, we were still able to eradicate smallpox everywhere for the most part?

Also, after vaccination did breakthrough cases of smallpox continue to occur?

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by camaguey48

I'm with you.

LOVE Ayn Rand; there is MUCH to be learned from those who "lived it", also applies to Cuban refuges who "try desperately" to tell us what happens when we don't pay attention to who we allow to be in change of our community, our lives, our courts, and our various levels of government. Some become so "loyal" to a certain party they become ideologues and have no idea how to begin to vet an individual for those qualities that REALLY matter. We have a frightening lack of individuals with deep ethical values in ALL political parties. We the people seem to more and more be "asleep at the wheel", and seem to be willing to settle for just anyone who will do these "political" jobs, from school board, to city clerk to president of the United States... most people will spend more time researching brand of automobiles and deciding on a color for their purchase, than they are willing to devote time to to do research and analysis, searching public records, searching judicial records, etc. for those they wish to put in charge of their entire lives and families ! To quote an often used teenage phrase: Go figure ? ?

[EdFNJ]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Be honest, you really don't want to see those numbers and you would deny them if you did. If you really wanted them you would refer to local newspaper articles for Florida numbers or national papers for US numbers or you would look at the WaPo, NYT, or CDC Covid tracking pages.

4 sure. It's doubtful those number could be found on FOX who is highly regarded for providing factual medical information (assuming you are a sick horse or cow).

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I plead unaware here, do you mean the people vaccinated against smallpox continued to carry the variola virus and spread it in the fashion covid 19 does? And, if so, we were still able to eradicate smallpox everywhere for the most part?

Also, after vaccination did breakthrough cases of smallpox continue to occur?

Data concerning viral load in vaccinated individuals is lacking since the final push against this disease started in 1967, the last case reported was in 1977 and the WHO declared it eradicated in 1980

The disease was transmitted in a similar fashion to COVID---aerosol droplets, although contaminated objects also played a role in smallpox as opposed to COVID.
There were also breakthrough cases---vaccinated people who got the disease---but like COVID, they had mild cases that were mistaken for chickenpox.

To put it in perspective, it was estimated in the last 100 years of its existence smallpox killed 500 million worldwide, and in 1967 alone killed 15 million. It has a mortality rate of 30% (as compared to 0.5-2.0% for COVID.

Admittedly, we had an advantage over smallpox---just like COVID we had a highly effective vaccine and transmission was only person to person. But in addition smallpox had no known animal reservoirs. I also don't remember any smallpox "anti-vaxxers" screaming their heads off about nonsense. In some ways, no internet was a good thing.

[Taltarzac725]

DEFINE_ME

This was quite interesting.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

What are the "issues" that are of concern? Positive test results? Lack of symptoms? Sniffles? Filling hospital beds? Deaths?

Overwhelmingly, the "issues" that affect me, filling hospital beds and deaths, are due to unvaccinated individuals.

Yes, breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths happen. In the vaccinated population hospitalizations have happened 9,000 times since January while in the unvaccinated population they have happened more than 70,000 times since last Friday.

Just a friendly bit of advice to a rational person such as yourself. Don’t wast your valuable time trying to have a reasonable debate with certain people who refuse to recognize reality. You would be better off trying to have an intellectual back and forth with a tree stump. Life is too short.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Just a friendly bit of advice to a rational person such as yourself. Don’t wast your valuable time trying to have a reasonable debate with certain people who refuse to recognize reality. You would be better off trying to have an intellectual back and forth with a tree stump. Life is too short.

I disagree. I could probably eventually convince a tree stump

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Just a friendly bit of advice to a rational person such as yourself. Don’t wast your valuable time trying to have a reasonable debate with certain people who refuse to recognize reality. You would be better off trying to have an intellectual back and forth with a tree stump. Life is too short.

And insults are the verbal weaponry of lost discussions when facts provided override one’s mental ability to adapt their thinking to actual scientific information not just what they want everyone to believe. I find it difficult to believe a physician would state that covid 19 is comparable to smallpox and will be eradicated the same way with the current vaccines.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

And insults are the verbal weaponry of lost discussions when facts provided override one’s mental ability to adapt their thinking to actual scientific information not just what they want everyone to believe. I find it difficult to believe a physician would state that covid 19 is comparable to smallpox and will be eradicated the same way with the current vaccines.

Really???? Did I state that???? Let's see. I reviewed the post and hmmm, yep, I NEVER SAID THAT

It was an ANOLOGY (yep, sure it's short but still a 4 syllable word so I understand the confusion).
They are both viruses from 2 different viral families
They both had effective vaccines
they were both primarily spread by aerosols/droplets
Smallpox had a small # of breakthrough cases that were mild
COVID has a small # of breakthrough cases that are also milder (but with the new variants the final numbers are not yet in)

Smallpox had no animal reservoirs
And to my knowledge, smallpox did not have a hoard of anti-vaxxers

And like all pandemics, this one will end as well, and much quicker than hundreds of years ago due primarily to VACCINES

Get it now?

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Really???? Did I state that???? Let's see. I reviewed the post and hmmm, yep, I NEVER SAID THAT

It was an ANOLOGY (yep, sure it's short but still a 4 syllable word so I understand the confusion).
They are both viruses from 2 different viral families
They both had effective vaccines
they were both primarily spread by aerosols/droplets
Smallpox had a small # of breakthrough cases that were mild
COVID has a small # of breakthrough cases that are also milder (but with the new variants the final numbers are not yet in)

Smallpox had no animal reservoirs
And to my knowledge, smallpox did not have a hoard of anti-vaxxers

And like all pandemics, this one will end as well, and much quicker than hundreds of years ago due primarily to VACCINES

Get it now?

To be honest, I don’t get your analogy to smallpox and covid 19 one bit. I indicated with the vaccinated still carrying and spreading the virus and having breakthrough covid, we are currently chasing our tails. I also pointed out that Johns Hopkins pointed out information from the CDC shows vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant carry covid viral loads comparable to the unvaccinated.

You told me to”try googling smallpox”. I did and did not see a correlation to covid even though you went on to state how they were transmitted similarily to which I thought there are no oozing wounds from covid to help with transmission and also very few break through cases. I did not read anywhere that successfully vaccinated smallpox individuals continued to shed the virus. You felt we had an advantage over smallpox — just like covid we had a highly effective vaccine. The vaccine for smallpox was FAR more effective than it currently is for covid. You made the comparison to the smallpox cure as soon as I mentioned we are chasing our tails. I don’t think Winston feels his breakthrough event was mild and some have died, even though vaccinated.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

To be honest, I don’t get your analogy to smallpox and covid 19 one bit. I indicated with the vaccinated still carrying and spreading the virus and having breakthrough covid, we are currently chasing our tails. I also pointed out that Johns Hopkins pointed out information from the CDC shows vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant carry covid viral loads comparable to the unvaccinated.

You told me to”try googling smallpox”. I did and did not see a correlation to covid even though you went on to state how they were transmitted similarily to which I thought there are no oozing wounds from covid to help with transmission and also very few break through cases. I did not read anywhere that successfully vaccinated smallpox individuals continued to shed the virus. You felt we had an advantage over smallpox — just like covid we had a highly effective vaccine. The vaccine for smallpox was FAR more effective than it currently is for covid. You made the comparison to the smallpox cure as soon as I mentioned we are chasing our tails. I don’t think Winston feels his breakthrough event was mild and some have died, even though vaccinated.

OK, let's try this again. You make it sound like EVERYONE who is vaccinated is a breakthrough case and is busy spreading COVID. That's not the case, only a small percentage of those vaccinated are COVID positive. It also doesn't matter if they carry the same "viral loads", they still have to unload it on a susceptible individual. And that's why we will eventually rid ourselves of this pandemic with vaccination. The more vaccinated, the less potential hosts, simple. Even with the same breakthrough percentage, there are less and less people with breakthrough as more and more get vaccinated.
You must also remember, and this is an advanced concept so pay attention, that in order to spread, the virus must be expelled by the host during the limited number of days that he/she is infective, and then find a susceptible host. Again, a numbers game. The less susceptible hosts around, the less spread so eventually it is like putting a wet blanket on a fire. (Just like smallpox, btw).

BTW, the "oozing wounds" of smallpox did not account for significant transmission in most cases, it is primarily respiratory transmission.

I also disagree with the statement that the smallpox vaccine was "far more effective than those for COVID". Since the COVID vaccines are probably the most effective ever developed, that statement is unlikely, unless you have a legitimate source you would like to share

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

There you go again, trying to convince these people with the FACTS. They don't want to hear them. they have made up their little minds and won't budge.

I love the people who have posted that the vaccinated can get and spread COVID. Yes they can-----for the original strain it was 0.07% breakthrough. For delta--they haven't posted stats, but at 100 x the rate, which would be high, it is still only 7%. For the UNvaccinated it is probably 99+%.

These two groups ARE NOT equivalent, either in numbers or ability to contract and spread COVID, not to mention the unvaccinated are far more likely to get sick, get hospitalized, and die.

"These two groups ARE NOT equivalent, either in numbers or ability to contract and spread COVID, not to mention the unvaccinated are far more likely to get sick, get hospitalized, and die."

THAT is the bottom line and it is amazing at how hard so many are working at trying to deflect, or even deny, these facts and that the unvaccinated are basically playing Russian Roulette - for whatever reason.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by tvbound

"These two groups ARE NOT equivalent, either in numbers or ability to contract and spread COVID, not to mention the unvaccinated are far more likely to get sick, get hospitalized, and die."

THAT is the bottom line and it is amazing at how hard so many are working at trying to deflect, or even deny, these facts and that the unvaccinated are basically playing Russian Roulette - for whatever reason.

All I can say is that I was born at the end of the polio era when vaccine was available. Thank God there weren't a significant number of antivaxxers back then, we might still be battling that disease.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by tvbound

"These two groups ARE NOT equivalent, either in numbers or ability to contract and spread COVID, not to mention the unvaccinated are far more likely to get sick, get hospitalized, and die."

THAT is the bottom line and it is amazing at how hard so many are working at trying to deflect, or even deny, these facts and that the unvaccinated are basically playing Russian Roulette - for whatever reason.

I’m not sure Russian Roulette is the proper term. People who play that game only put their own lives at risk. The unvaccinated are worse, they put the general population at risk by providing the virus more opportunities to mutate and they wind up monopolizing the available hospital beds, putting unselfish and responsible vaccinated people unnecessarily at a greater risk.