[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Be honest, you really don't want to see those numbers and you would deny them if you did. If you really wanted them you would refer to local newspaper articles for Florida numbers or national papers for US numbers or you would look at the WaPo, NYT, or CDC Covid tracking pages.

See my post above your’s with added info while you were posting, facts matter whether some people realize it or not.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Please provide the HUGH and OVERWHELMING numbers of the unvaccinated with covid in ICU at this time. Numbers seem to be missing for these stats and it will better your argument. I would also like to see all the numbers of the vaccinated who ended up in ICU with covid.


CDC numbers August 16, 2021: The CDC received reports from 49 states of 9,716 patients with covid vaccine breakthrough illness who were hospitalized or died. Those numbers alone would plug ICUs. It is a disgusting, difficult disease and probably limiting activities, masking and social distancing will help one avoid it but right now it is in control. Will life ever become normal again, your guess is as good as mine.

As was stated, facts matter.

CDC numbers AS OF August 16, 2021. 9,716 patients since vaccinations began eight months ago, not on one day alone.

Current US hospitalizations: 101,050 hospitalized, 25,064 in ICU. There was no breakdown of vaccinated or unvaccinated so we'll have to see what happens when the CDC updates their tracking page.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

As was stated, facts matter.

CDC numbers AS OF August 16, 2021. 9,716 patients since vaccinations began eight months ago, not on one day alone.

Current US hospitalizations: 101,050 hospitalized, 25,064 in ICU. There was no breakdown of vaccinated or unvaccinated so we'll have to see what happens when the CDC updates their tracking page.

There you go again, trying to convince these people with the FACTS. They don't want to hear them. they have made up their little minds and won't budge.

I love the people who have posted that the vaccinated can get and spread COVID. Yes they can-----for the original strain it was 0.07% breakthrough. For delta--they haven't posted stats, but at 100 x the rate, which would be high, it is still only 7%. For the UNvaccinated it is probably 99+%.

These two groups ARE NOT equivalent, either in numbers or ability to contract and spread COVID, not to mention the unvaccinated are far more likely to get sick, get hospitalized, and die.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by blueash

Sweden COVID: 1,110,147 Cases and 14,621 Deaths



Time to return to fifth grade to learn how to calculate a percentage.

14621/1110147 = 0.01317

When doing a calculation of a percentage you should have learned to move the decimal point 2 spaces to the right. So 1.317% of the cases resulted in a fatality. This leaves a survival rate of 98.683 %.

I am not sure why you think a survival rate says anything about the wisdom of masks or lockdowns. It doesn't. It says something about the underlying fragility of those sickened and the strength of the health care system to respond to critical illness.

Survival rate is another factor. A lot of people do not acknowledge the long term effects and associated costs with the people who do get sick and do not die.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

As was stated, facts matter.

CDC numbers AS OF August 16, 2021. 9,716 patients since vaccinations began eight months ago, not on one day alone.

Current US hospitalizations: 101,050 hospitalized, 25,064 in ICU. There was no breakdown of vaccinated or unvaccinated so we'll have to see what happens when the CDC updates their tracking page.

I agree and I hope people will get vaccinated, however, I will not blame the unvaccinated for what has occurred and is occurring.

A family friend, at age 85, had covid last year and recovered without hospitalization. Medical history is diabetes and a stroke from which he recovered prior to covid. He has refused vaccination and I think we should be allowed to choose.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I agree and I hope people will get vaccinated, however, I will not blame the unvaccinated for what has occurred and is occurring.

A family friend, at age 85, had covid last year and recovered without hospitalization. Medical history is diabetes and a stroke from which he recovered prior to covid. He has refused vaccination and I think we should be allowed to choose.

And I will point to the unvaccinated as the reason the hospitals are filled and blame them for any subsequent issues due to that.

(breakthrough hospitalizations happen but are reportedly less than 10% of the current hospital utilization)

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

There you go again, trying to convince these people with the FACTS. They don't want to hear them. they have made up their little minds and won't budge.

I love the people who have posted that the vaccinated can get and spread COVID. Yes they can-----for the original strain it was 0.07% breakthrough. For delta--they haven't posted stats, but at 100 x the rate, which would be high, it is still only 7%. For the UNvaccinated it is probably 99+%.

These two groups ARE NOT equivalent, either in numbers or ability to contract and spread COVID, not to mention the unvaccinated are far more likely to get sick, get hospitalized, and die.

I love people who indicate that being vaccinated means you are less likely to carry the virus. You don’t have to be sick with covid to carry the virus from what I read. Non symptomatic vaccinated individuals can carry it the same as the unvaccinated. If everyone in the USA was vaccinated today we would still have covid, there will still be ICU treatment of it and deaths from it. It is tiresome listening to all this over bloated conversations stating all the covid issues are from the unvaccinated. That’s a total lie.


An article in a science magazine puts out a grim warning coming out of Israel, stating vaccination blunts but can not defeat Delta. Israel has the highest percentage of vaccinated from those 12 and older. They are now registering one of the world’s highest infection rates.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I love people who indicate that being vaccinated means you are less likely to carry the virus. You don’t have to be sick with covid to carry the virus from what I read. Non symptomatic vaccinated individuals can carry it the same as the unvaccinated. If everyone in the USA was vaccinated today we would still have covid, there will still be ICU treatment of it and deaths from it. It is tiresome listening to all this over bloated conversations stating all the covid issues are from the unvaccinated. That’s a total lie.

True, except not at the rate of the unvaccinated. As posted above-----original strain---0.07% of the vaccinated, who knows for delta but looks like well under 10%. For the unvaccinated----99+%.

So yes, the vaccinated ARE LESS LIKELY to carry the virus

Just look at the data of who is hospitalized and who dies---over 90% are unvaccinated. So yes, most current COVID issues are among the unvaccinated

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

And I will point to the unvaccinated as the reason the hospitals are filled and blame them for any subsequent issues due to that.

(breakthrough hospitalizations happen but are reportedly less than 10% of the current hospital utilization)

I couldn’t agree more, and that is coming from someone who has first hand experience. I came dangerously close to becoming the collateral damage of the selfish and irresponsible unvaccinated. Do not underestimate the importance of having open hospital beds for people other than unvaccinated Covid patients.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I love people who indicate that being vaccinated means you are less likely to carry the virus. You don’t have to be sick with covid to carry the virus from what I read. Non symptomatic vaccinated individuals can carry it the same as the unvaccinated. If everyone in the USA was vaccinated today we would still have covid, there will still be ICU treatment of it and deaths from it. It is tiresome listening to all this over bloated conversations stating all the covid issues are from the unvaccinated. That’s a total lie.

What are the "issues" that are of concern? Positive test results? Lack of symptoms? Sniffles? Filling hospital beds? Deaths?

Overwhelmingly, the "issues" that affect me, filling hospital beds and deaths, are due to unvaccinated individuals.

Yes, breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths happen. In the vaccinated population hospitalizations have happened 9,000 times since January while in the unvaccinated population they have happened more than 70,000 times since last Friday.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

True, except not at the rate of the unvaccinated. As posted above-----original strain---0.07% of the vaccinated, who knows for delta but looks like well under 10%. For the unvaccinated----99+%.

So yes, the vaccinated ARE LESS LIKELY to carry the virus

Just look at the data of who is hospitalized and who dies---over 90% are unvaccinated. So yes, most current COVID issues are among the unvaccinated

An article in a science magazine puts out a grim warning coming out of Israel, stating vaccination blunts but can not defeat Delta. Israel has the highest percentage of vaccinated from those 12 and older. They are now registering one of the world’s highest infection rates.

An article I amended to my earlier post.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Aces4

An article in a science magazine puts out a grim warning coming out of Israel, stating vaccination blunts but can not defeat Delta. Israel has the highest percentage of vaccinated from those 12 and older. They are now registering one of the world’s highest infection rates.

An article I amended to my earlier post.

Vaccination alone will only kill COVID if herd immunity is reached (if possible). Time will tell. But we can reduce hospitalizations and deaths dramatically if everyone gets vaccinated.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

What are the "issues" that are of concern? Positive test results? Lack of symptoms? Sniffles? Filling hospital beds? Deaths?

Overwhelmingly, the "issues" that affect me, filling hospital beds and deaths, are due to unvaccinated individuals.

Yes, breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths happen. In the vaccinated population hospitalizations have happened 9,000 times since January while in the unvaccinated population they have happened more than 70,000 times since last Friday.

The issue I’m addressing is the fact that people really believe if everyone gets the current vaccines, covid becomes a non issue. Not by a long shot at this point is that possible.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Vaccination alone will only kill COVID if herd immunity is reached (if possible). Time will tell. But we can reduce hospitalizations and deaths dramatically if everyone gets vaccinated.

I agree with this but if the vaccinated still carry and spread the virus and have breakthrough covid, we’re chasing our tails currently.

In early August Johns Hopkins pointed out information reported by the CDC shows vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant carry covid viral loads comparable to theunvaccinated.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aces4

The issue I’m addressing is the fact that people really believe if everyone gets the current vaccines, covid becomes a non issue. Not by a long shot at this point is that possible.

People believe Covid is a hoax.

People believe the vaccine doesn't work.

People believe the vaccinated can become infected and spread Covid as easily as the unvaccinated.

People believe the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and man never walked on the moon.

We can quibble over the definition of "non-issue" but if 100M or so more Americans were vaccinated we wouldn't hear about hospitals being full or liquid oxygen supplies being depleted and we probably wouldn't hear about masks in schools.