[LndLocked]

Originally Posted by Bill-n-Brillo

LndLocked - - - sorry if I misunderstood the point you were driving at.

Bill

No problem ... any discussion of taxes tend to get complex and difficult to convey in a short msg brd posting.

[LndLocked]

Originally Posted by blueash

Further review of this document, http://sumtercountyfl.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1844
Go down to page 30 and you will see the budget of the Tourist Development Tax 5 year Plan. Expenses planned for 2012-13, 13-14,14-15, and 15- 16 all show 60,000 to go to The Villages Sumter Landing/Brownwood entertainment. So this IS a recurring item and for most of those years represents over 1/3 of the total spending on "Promotion/Advertising/Single Events/Reoccuring Events"

Additionally there is a 10,000 per year allocation for advertsing with The Villages Media Outlet. The contract is between the county and "The Villages of Lake Sumter, Inc" and notifications go to Barbara Vesco for the Contractor with title Director Entertainment/Special events. There is nothing in this contract to indicate that the Vescos independantly own anything rather that they direct or manage it.

I did find this line item in the document linked above:

REVENUES
Tourist Development Tax revenues are generated by overnight guests staying in Sumter County RV
parks/campgrounds, hotels, motels and condominiums. As a rule, any short term lodging of six months or less is
subject to the two percent tax in addition to Sumter County’s sales tax. Collections are received through the
Florida Department of Revenue and returned to the County on a monthly basis for the County’s use. Sumter
County records this revenue in a separate Tourist Development Tax fund.

This is Sumter Co's "bed" tax and the line in bold appears to open the door to collecting bed tax on short term rentals in TV. I know a TV rental landlord in Sumter co and will ask if they are required to collect a separate 2% bed tax on short term rentals.

[justjim]

I don't have a problem with TV getting such a Grant. Several moons ago I was involved in evaluating grant proposals and sit on a State Advisory committee and we volunteered to evaluate, along with State Staff, tourism grant applications. There should be a method and criteria to evaluate the intended results of such a Grant and that would/should have been included in the RFP (request for proposal) and TV'S proposal itself. If the results were to be evaluated, it would be interesting how they proposed to do it. Every guest we have for the first time, we usually take them to the entertainment at one of the squares. A lot of the time they spend money at the stores and/or vendors----this in turn generates sales tax for the county. Consumer spending----this is the engine of our economy.

[billethkid]

it is an urban legend that retailers or commercial tenants in the squares have to pay a percentage to the developer for "whatever".

This legend is perpetrated in my opinion by many retailers that have gone out of business and lay blame to their problem on the developer charging too much rent/fees.

There are statements in many of the leases pertaining to attaining certain levels of revenues. For example if one has a business planned to do $500,000 per year in sales....there may be a clause stating that when they attain
$1, 500,000 they will begin paying a 1% fee to TV. Who would care if the business is doing 3 times more than planned???

Also by lease the retailers are supposed to stay open until 9 PM every day except Christmas and Thanksgiving.....whether they do any business after 6 PM does not matter. If there were no entertainment you would see many of these retailers closing at 5 or 6 PM.

The way charging for entertainment would be done, in my opinion, is the amenity fees would be raised to make it happen......not a very popular prospect for many of us.

Reality has a way of sorting out what is important to maintain once the developer has built out the area and has withdrawn subsidizing all marketing-like activities promoting "TV Lifestyle".

btk

[justjim]

Billethkid: You are right about residents paying for the entertainment after "buildout". It is then----you will see, one way or the other, how important the entertainment EVERY NIGHT 0n the Squares is to the residents of TV. I heard from a sales rep that the date is the end of 2015 for "buildout". Who knows if he really knows?

[jbdlfan]

Originally Posted by justjim

I don't have a problem with TV getting such a Grant. Several moons ago I was involved in evaluating grant proposals and sit on a State Advisory committee and we volunteered to evaluate, along with State Staff, tourism grant applications. There should be a method and criteria to evaluate the intended results of such a Grant and that would/should have been included in the RFP (request for proposal) and TV'S proposal itself. If the results were to be evaluated, it would be interesting how they proposed to do it. Every guest we have for the first time, we usually take them to the entertainment at one of the squares. A lot of the time they spend money at the stores and/or vendors----this in turn generates sales tax for the county. Consumer spending----this is the engine of our economy.

So in this world of being overtaxed and overburdoned with regulations, your ok with taking money out of peoples pockets to give to people who can well afford to provide? Taking money from peoples pockets that would be spending that money in local businesses, at least according to this plan. These people will come to TV with or without music on the square. I would venture to say that the majority of people at the squares are folks that already live here anyways. Another example of tax cronyism......

[mulligan]

Maybe I'm terminally thick, but no posters have shown me where there is a problem with using tourist promotion money to support the entertainment in the squares. I'd rather see that than a couple of billboards on I-75 advertising Sumter county as a tourist destination.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by jbdlfan

So in this world of being overtaxed and overburdoned with regulations, your ok with taking money out of peoples pockets to give to people who can well afford to provide? Taking money from peoples pockets that would be spending that money in local businesses, at least according to this plan. These people will come to TV with or without music on the square. I would venture to say that the majority of people at the squares are folks that already live here anyways. Another example of tax cronyism......

This money has been designated for tourism. It has already come out of somebody's pocket---most likely added on to a motel bill or as sales tax. I'm not sure what is meant by tax cronyism..... Is the motel tax cronyism or sales tax? Point is, the money was probably spent at a local business in the first place. It is arguable whether this is money well spent or not. That is why the grant should contain evaluation criteria. It is also arguable whether a tax should be added to your motel bill. Maybe we shouldn't promote tourism by using taxes. All questions to be answered by our elected officials that have been voted into office by majority to represent us the people. Some taxes are necessary---some not. Some taxes are used "well" for the better good---some could be rescinded.

[jbdlfan]

Originally Posted by justjim

This money has been designated for tourism. It has already come out of somebody's pocket---most likely added on to a motel bill or as sales tax. I'm not sure what is meant by tax cronyism..... Is the motel tax cronyism or sales tax? Point is, the money was probably spent at a local business in the first place. It is arguable whether this is money well spent or not. That is why the grant should contain evaluation criteria. It is also arguable whether a tax should be added to your motel bill. Maybe we shouldn't promote tourism by using taxes. All questions to be answered by our elected officials that have been voted into office by majority to represent us the people. Some taxes are necessary---some not. Some taxes are used "well" for the better good---some could be rescinded.

That is my point about tax cronyism. The elected officials come from the most affluent part of the county. They are elected by the most affluent part of the county. Where does the money go? The most affluent part of the county. Why spend more money on something that is already working and effective? Why not spend the money elsewhere to try and generate a new stream of income??? Answer is.......

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by jbdlfan

.... Why spend more money on something that is already working and effective? Why not spend the money elsewhere to try and generate a new stream of income??? Answer is.......

That was my feeling as well. It would make more sense if you really want to promote tourism, to come up with new and innovative ideas to fund.

It doesn't make any sense at all to fund entertainment at the Villages, from a tourism point of view. People come to The Villages to live or rent, regardless of whether or not there is entertainment. And especially during snowbird season, you get a lot of snowbirds from other nearby retirement communities like Spruce Creek, that frequent the Squares for the free entertainment. Again, they are not tourists - they live or rent in the county already.

Makes you wonder why the legislators are so keen to fund this. I don't really know the political makeup of the local legislators. Could it be they are Republicans who have been on the receiving end of Morse's big donations to the Republican party?

[gomoho]

Sorry, but I can't think of a single thing this part of Florida could offer a tourist other than The Villages! My goodness think of all the fabulous parts of Florida with real bona-fide tourist attractions. Why would someone come to no-mans land other than to enjoy The Villages. So why couldn't the nightly entertainment on the squares be part of that attraction along with golf and restaurants and shopping?

The city of Wilmington NC bills itself as a historic district that brings in tourists that end up buying homes there either as 2nd homes or future retirement homes. The idea is bring them in and they'll love the community and buy and add to the tax base.

Hate to say it, but The Villages is a tourist attraction and could easily be promoted as such to a specific segment of society. Disney is for families/TV for retirees. Don't get the problem?

[graciegirl]

../

[perrjojo]

Originally Posted by gomoho

Sorry, but I can't think of a single thing this part of Florida could offer a tourist other than The Villages! My goodness think of all the fabulous parts of Florida with real bona-fide tourist attractions. Why would someone come to no-mans land other than to enjoy The Villages. So why couldn't the nightly entertainment on the squares be part of that attraction along with golf and restaurants and shopping?

The city of Wilmington NC bills itself as a historic district that brings in tourists that end up buying homes there either as 2nd homes or future retirement homes. The idea is bring them in and they'll love the community and buy and add to the tax base.

Hate to say it, but The Villages is a tourist attraction and could easily be promoted as such to a specific segment of society. Disney is for families/TV for retirees. Don't get the problem?

we have been coming here for 12 years. Without TV and the squares, we would have never come here. Would you?

[justjim]

Gomoho you posted most of what I was getting ready to post. Nice job and good answer. I would just add one other comment. In order to get a Grant you have to make application or in most cases---complete a request for proposal (RFP) Just maybe TV had the best proposal or even maybe the only one.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by justjim

Gomoho you posted most of what I was getting ready to post. Nice job and good answer. I would just add one other comment. In order to get a Grant you have to make application or in most cases---complete a request for proposal (RFP) Just maybe TV had the best proposal or even maybe the only one.

I wonder if there is a grant out there that would bring parades back to The Villages??????????????