[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Chellybean

People believe the crosses are covered under the first amendment, freedom of speech which IMHO I believe they are. Federal and State law Preempts anything you signed and can not be enforced. A lot of deed restriction are not legal and Preempted by state and Federal law, some example, Clotheslines, outdoor Antenna's etc... I am sure there will be a lot of disagreement about this which I will not debate.
Sometimes peoples principles are more important and not about Christianity, if its not on your property mind your own business!

You and all others signed to follow those restrictions when you moved here. No one was forced to move here. You can live in Leesburg and put whatever lovely thing you want in your yard. We all signed the paper. It was our CHOICE to live in a deed restricted area.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by Tsalla Apopka

What if it was an 8" tall SWAZTICA or an 8" tall phallus??
What would the discussion be then?
The Covenant's, anywhere, are there for a reason.

An endless discussion. Yet, another example of people trying to justify. Re: crosses.
take out a ruler and see what eight inches is. I doubt it is or was eight inches. Far as crosses. I recall seeing a person with three on his/her front lawn. Surely someone will start the cross race. My cross is bigger than your cross. Wait, I've already seen that too.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

You and all others signed to follow those restrictions when you moved here. No one was forced to move here. You can live in Leesburg and put whatever lovely thing you want in your yard. We all signed the paper. It was our CHOICE to live in a deed restricted area.

Everyone thinks that their choices are lovely.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...0c010b3902.jpg

[PennBF]

I believe Mathew 6:5-6 is sort of a Biblical Restriction but again many don't pay attention to that either..

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Chellybean

People believe the crosses are covered under the first amendment, freedom of speech which IMHO I believe they are. Federal and State law Preempts anything you signed and can not be enforced. A lot of deed restriction are not legal and Preempted by state and Federal law, some example, Clotheslines, outdoor Antenna's etc... I am sure there will be a lot of disagreement about this which I will not debate.
Sometimes peoples principles are more important and not about Christianity, if its not on your property mind your own business!

The freedom people claim when arguing for displaying the cross is not freedom of expression. That freedom is specific to public property. The freedom in question is freedom of religion. Both are parts of the First Amendment.

Freedom of religion is guaranteed. Now go ahead and show me where in the bible it says you're required to stick a white cross on your front lawn. You show me where it says you have to do that, and I will respect your right to do that.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

[Byte1]

The ONLY valid argument on this thread regarding the placement of crosses on a front lawn is the one regarding Deed Restrictions. Arguing over the validity of religion and how to practice it, is not relevant to the issue, even though many of us wish to disagree with each other on their translation of the Bible or related to the atheists, whether they believe in a deity or not.
I did not move to The Villages because of deed restrictions, politics, or supposed security gates. Of course I will adhere to any rules or else move to a better location. BUT, as long as my neighbors are flexible with the rules I can be tolerant also. If someone challenges my choice in personalizing my property, I will likely make corrections and if it goes against my nature to change, I will move.
Personally, my nose is not in my neighbor's business and what they do does not bother me in the slightest with regards to how they personalize their homes. Almost every home in my neighborhood has been personalized, whether they are following the rules or not, I don't know and don't care. That said, homes for sale in my neighborhood sell within days of listing, and over half a million bucks per sale, I do not feel that a few lawn ornaments has sullied their worth.
Just my opinion.
Folks are correct in saying "well rules are rules." I agree. I also agree with those that want flexibility such as others get in other neighborhoods. I do not see how someone on here can demand that folks in other neighborhoods than theirs comply with their wishes. Like I said before, for every rule or law I have seen exceptions and flexibility.
This discussion seems to come up every month. It's interesting, but we hardly ever hear anything new. I realize that to some, a cross reminds them that they might be missing something in their lives. It makes them scared, especially as they draw closer and closer to their expiration date. Others sound like elitists, that fear that their property value might decrease. They have no intention of selling their homes, but bragging about the worth of their home is something that make life great, huh?

[Altavia]

What is the specific language in deed restrictions prohibiting lawn ornements?

[tuccillo]

Your specific deed restrictions are available at districtgov.org. There are variations in the deed restrictions. For a much of The Villages, the language is:

"Lawn ornaments are prohibited, except for seasons displays not exceeding a thirty (30) day duration."

Originally Posted by Robbie0723

What is the specific language in deed restrictions prohibiting lawn ornements?

[Seamus6]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Rules are rules.

It is really amazing how many people live here in TV that has never used a pad at work for personal use, never taken a pencil or pen home, never fudge on an expense account, never ran stop sign, never exceeded a speed limit.

But, let someone put a cross in their yard or a statue of a bird, and suddenly - Rules are Rules.

I am generally one for following the rules, especially in your own neighborhood.

But I have to say, This is a great point!!!

I would have a tendency to talk to a neighbor first if I didn't like something and a cross or gnome wouldn't do it (We have a nice CERAMIC flamingo in our BACK yard that I really like but wouldn't put it out front)...now that rusty old car, I'd have to ask about.

[Road-Runner]

I've lived through three different neighborhoods around Atlanta that underwent significant demographic changes while we lived there and the one that had strong neighborhood covenants was the only one that still looked decent when we left. The others had Pepto Bismol pink houses and fences, other colors I don't know how to describe other than bizarre, yards that had gone back to nature, you name it they had it. If I move into a neighborhood that keeps me from doing something I might want to do I understand it also keeps another from doing something I definitely don't want them to do, it works for me.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by PennBF

I believe Mathew 6:5-6 is sort of a Biblical Restriction but again many don't pay attention to that either..

I expect we could make a LONG list of things people don't do that the Bible says to do - how about, and then "they" would come up with a long list of things other people do.

The bible is not a legal document we signed and agreed to live by when moving here.

We all agreed on no lawn ornaments, we all signed it.

Personally, I don't care about birds and crosses and frogs, when someone puts a car up on cinder blocks I will complain.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Shadywood

My entire neighborhood put flags on their lawn last Memorial Day. I put 12 there myself. Were we in compliance with the CDD? Didn't check. Don't really care.

I guess I'm fortunate to live in a neighborhood where people like to get together on projects like that. My neighbors seem more worried about enjoying their retirement and being liked by their neighbors, than worrying about what little doo-dad their neighbor has in their garden, just so they can report them to lawn ornament police.

When governments, especially small governments, make rules, they're always draconian. That's because fellow citizens don't want to sit in judgement as the designated hair splitter, and the lawyers don't want any ambiguity if they have to go to court.

The lawn ornament thing is there to prevent people from erecting giant monstrosities on their lawn that hurt property values. It wasn't written to prevent your tender eyes from observing a small religious artifact that you happen to find offensive. But you're certainly within your rights and the letter of the law to report the offender and have offensive the object removed. And a chorus of like-minded souls on this forum are sure to whip our their deed restrictions and remind us that we all agreed to be ruled by the most petty among us, and rules are rules.

I'd just ask how your happy retirement is going -- the one where you paid a bundle to live close to other happy retired people -- if you find your neighbors so offensive that you'd turn them in for something as trivial as an 8" cross in their garden.

Until you decide to sell your house and buyers find how your neighbors decorate their lawns offensive and move on. With houses so close together it makes a difference. Are you happy with all religious representations in yards? If you allow one, you allow them all.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I see freedom of speech is mentioned several times in this thread. The First Amendment is only applicable in cases of the government and does not apply to private contracts or private businesses.

Freedom to practice your religion is also in reference to the government and does not apply to private businesses.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I see freedom of speech is mentioned several times in this thread. The First Amendment is only applicable in cases of the government and does not apply to private contracts or private businesses.

Freedom to practice your religion is also in reference to the government and does not apply to private businesses.

It does apply to your own property though. You have the right to practice your religion on your own property, regardless of deed restrictions.

HOWEVER my point is, there's nothing in the Christian religion requiring anyone to put a cross on their front yard. So there is no "practicing my religion" going on, in that specific situation. And since the placing of crosses in one's front yard is NOT a practice of one's religion, the freedom of religion clause doesn't apply.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It does apply to your own property though. You have the right to practice your religion on your own property, regardless of deed restrictions.

HOWEVER, my point is, there's nothing in the Christian religion requiring anyone to put a cross on their front yard. So there is no "practicing my religion" going on, in that specific situation. And since the placing of crosses in one's front yard is NOT a practice of one's religion, the freedom of religion clause doesn't apply.

Actually, no you do not have a "right" to practice your religion on your own property, except that the government can not stop you from doing it. Your rights, in that case, apply ONLY to the government and not to any civil contract you may have entered.

Now, is there a law that says contracts that limit your exercising your religion are not permitted? I have no idea, I am not a lawyer, and that is certainly possible. But, laws are not rights.

Rights are enumerated in the Constitution, and those are the only rights you have. They do not extend to anything not listed. Some people believe that God is the ultimate source of "rights", but we live in a secular society and so, here, the Government defines what "rights" we have or don't have.