[BostonTom]

Massachusetts is the most highly educated state in the country. Feel free to Google that. However we came here to escape the weather, high taxes and the far left political agenda. We love The Villages and you shouldn't paint everybody from Boston with a broad brush.

[NotGolfer]

Doncha just love the posts of folks who are either new or have visited who are "experts" on T.V.???? If one hasn't observed---since the plague hit everything has changed in our country, if not the world. First we all were told to stay home and not mingle with anyone, not even our family. Then gradually things opened up! I suspect businesses struggled immensely during that time. Stores I once loved to shop in are gone. Remember when you could purchase clothes but couldn't try them on????
As for medical---I think that whole issue is "maybe" true all over and not just here. That said, in case people didn't know T.V. isn't a world-class community that would bring in everything from "there" to "here". In our house-hold we can't complain about the health-care we've received. Believe me, we've had some major health issues and our care has been very good!!
The Developer has a long-range and most likely, short-range business plan. He has a lot of intelligent people who work for him. If any of the nay-sayers think they can do it better then maybe buy up some land somewhere and build a new community. Yes, I'm being sarcastic but it gets tiresome to read all the negativity on social media. I remember years back asking someone why they live here if it's so bad. The answer was...."because I like the life-style!" SMH!!! Now THAT makes total sense!

[sowtime444]

Spanish Springs has a revitalization plan to make it more like Brownwood. And the big Reina building is being turned into apartments. As long as there is re-investment in "older" areas I think The Villages will continue to do well. Of course sometimes it takes a lawsuit to spur that investment (First Responders Recreation Center, etc.).

Let's face it. We all like the *idea* of a cute little downtown with boutique shops to browse in, but as a tourist on vacation or a special occasion shopping trip, not somewhere where we shop on the regular. And restaurants in general have always been a tough business.

I also wonder what, if anything, will cause The Villages to lose its shine and favor in the top spot. Not maintaining and reinvesting in older areas is certainly one possibility, but I don't see that happening.

I think it will be larger shifts in the public consciousness. For example, home ownership. Right now lots of younger people prefer to rent things on a subscription than own them. A ZipCar membership is easier than maintaining your own car for example, if there is a ZipCar parking bay near where you live. These younger people will grow up and in 20 years might be thinking about retirement. Do they want to maintain their own house, hire the lawn service, pest service, fix stuff that breaks? Maybe The Villages will have to buy back some of their own homes that they built and manage them themselves as rentals. Or build more apartment buildings with communal ground-floors where people can gather and socialize with their neighbors indoors as well as out at the pool. Other trends besides home ownership might come into play, and The Villages may need to come up with much more varied models of neighborhoods. For example neighborhoods with community gardens, if that becomes more popular. Neighborhoods with native grasses and maintenance-free lawns instead of Florida grasses from hell. They might need to knock down some older houses to make way for such new developments. But I'm talking farther in the future. If they don't change and grow with the times, The Villages will become a less attractive place to be.

It is easy to look at The Villages and ponder what we would do differently if we started from scratch today. I have my own list:
- There are over 100 pools in The Villages but only two of them are zero-entry and only a dozen or so are of any decent size. There are also too few of them in the north. If I were a billionaire I would build an entire water park. Maybe even one of those inland beaches that they are building near Tampa. At least a lazy river!
- I would have made rec centers and the surrounding grounds a lot bigger, to accommodate all sorts of sports at each location. I know this is heathenistic but the amount of golf here takes up way too much real estate.
- I would have left a lot more trees in place. No shaded walking trails in the north is a big bummer.

Of course even with the resources, if I were to start to build the above, there wouldn't be enough people moving there right away to establish 3,000+ clubs that The Villages has. And that "first mover" advantage is huge.

If rising sea levels really start to claim the coasts, that will just force more Floridians into places like The Villages, so I think it's popularity will remain high even if adverse global weather starts to creep up, at least temporarily. Of course if Florida in its entirety is under water that is a different story.

[coleprice]

My wife and I moved to The Villages 4 years ago and decided to buy a 20 year old home because the area was beautiful, had extremely convenient shopping (Super Walmart, BJ's, Sams, Home Depot, Lowes, Aldi, plus dozens of other stores and restaurants) within 5 minutes of our home. Additionally, there are over 20 golf courses 2 Town Squares and 9 Rec Centers within a 20 minute golf cart ride (including 12 within a 10 minute golf cart ride) of our home. Most of the "older" neighbors have sold to younger (55 to 65) buyers. Since there are not many golf courses in "the new areas", I'd encourage golfers to check out the homes in the North and central areas of The Villages.

[ronda]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

.......and one day the present newer areas will have the aging population.
Oldie pass on, and younger ones replace.
A bit like any city or town

Yes, it's the circle of life. I've seen it in our neighborhood. Houses are turning over. Original owners are "aging out" and new ones come in. I think some of the properties in SS are getting lone in the tooth and need restoration, which is happening. Definitely newer amenities down south. The developer says they are committed to keeping SS vibrant, and have made improvements, but they have also put in apartments in what used to be retail space. I never really thought retail stores would do well in the town squares. It's just not where people go to shop.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by crash

What I see that worries me is the medical services are not being put in to service the aging population. They say they can’t get enough doctors to staff the current population what happens when it increases by 75%.

I have always thought the Morses' model was that healthy retirees move here. They are active and enjoy and use the golf, tennis, clubs, ate and drank out, shopped etc. There were no retirement homes, there were no memory units. That is all new. The plan was that when you aged to the point you were no longer playing golf and tennis and spending money at the merchants, you moved back to your hometown. No need for much real medical care here. Still no second hospital and a low quality hospital only present.

So, to answer your question... if we don't have doctors, then we die sooner or move away, and the homes turn over which is where they make money and replace the ill with healthy people. Rinse and repeat.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by Craig Vernon

TV's are continuing to struggle internally as residents age and the footprint gets larger. The oldest areas seem to be losing businesses as the shiny new areas develop. It seems to me that it would be very difficult to maintain a business with so many part time residents and an aging population that has less need, desire or ability to leave their homes to support them. Spanish Springs and Sumter landing are losing staple businesses, and there do not seem to be people knocking the doors down to fill any of them. Outside and nearby things are booming with construction and development. Perhaps the apartments, family areas and cheaper housing around TV will save the day. Perhaps the bubble will turn into a landlocked beach town where certain businesses close during off season periods. Your thoughts and opinions welcome. See you as a full-time neighbor coming early next year. Have a Great day!

I think you make some cogent observations, and you've been doing a lot of research as you approach a possible relocation.
My thoughts (since you asked): What you describe as a "struggle" I would characterize as an "evolving process". Consider that in its infancy, TV was a small "bubble", and the large retailers like Publix, Winn-Dixie, and larger retailers like Walmart, Sam's Club etc. didn't see enough of a market here to warrant investing in the area. Hence, in order to provide some level of service and entertainment, to attract the potential buyers for the homes, the developer chose to develop real estate space and did so by creating Spanish Springs, and eventually LSL. As those areas became developed and populated, it started to make sense for more development along 466 and 441, hence, Publix, Walmart, and chain restaurants like Olive Garden, etc.

Then, as more and more people came, more commercial development ensued, and the demand for the small commercial sites at the squares changed and evolve and continue to do so.
Fast Forward 20 years and TV is no longer "The Bubble", it is the driving economic force of the area. What was needed in the squares, and what worked in the squares when there was nothing outside of TV, is no longer needed and viable now.

Consider also, that since there is so much available near , but outside of TV, the developer no longer needs to create as much entertainment and services inside TV as was needed when the Spanish Springs and LSL squares were developed. So they build less of that into the system.

Whatever you see now, as you prepare to move here, will be different in 20 years. And your desires, abilities, and needs will change as well. It's only a "struggle" in the sense that all change requires adaptive response, which I guess could be viewed as a "struggle".

[dhdallas]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

[Glowing Horizon]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

.......and one day the present newer areas will have the aging population.
Oldie pass on, and younger ones replace.
A bit like any city or town

Most towns are not so homogeneous & built at nearly the same time, by one over-arching developer’s plan. Like most things, it’s both good & bad. The decline of retail is probably more acute in the older areas like OBG/Spanish Springs for the reasons offered but also because our entire economy has shifted to more online ordering & less buying-by-wandering around. The new areas have younger, more mobile people who want to get out to meet others, want to experience all the things they bought into & who NEED things for their new home & their new lifestyle.

Sit-down full-service restaurants are suffering everywhere post-pandemic. IMO restaurants everywhere will need to evolve & develop more unique experiences. The days of identical unhealthy chain food have passed to a large extent. We need them to offer specialized foods & drinks which cater to today’s more health-oriented special diets & needs.What if ONE restaurant dared to offer a Christian breaking -of-the-daily-bread dinner complete with prayer & Bible study & fellowship along with a more basic Mediterranean-themed tapas-style diet? Or ONE restaurant which might offer unique LUNCH experiences complete with music or an educational speaker? Or ONE restaurant which would offer LADIES LUNCHES “let’s do lunch!” with finger sandwiches, tiny beautiful baby veggies & salads, miniature pastries & a lovely fragrance to greet you along with a pianist. Would you go? How about a “dude’s den” with a cigar lounge, beer-tasting flights, charcuterie boards of meats & cheeses, and a muted saxophone player interrupted by a speaker about uniquely male topics like today’s NFL hot topics or tech or golf tips. Do you see how they are failing because they are all competing at the same stale mediocrity?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Craig Vernon

TV's are continuing to struggle internally as residents age and the footprint gets larger. The oldest areas seem to be losing businesses as the shiny new areas develop. It seems to me that it would be very difficult to maintain a business with so many part time residents and an aging population that has less need, desire or ability to leave their homes to support them. Spanish Springs and Sumter landing are losing staple businesses, and there do not seem to be people knocking the doors down to fill any of them. Outside and nearby things are booming with construction and development. Perhaps the apartments, family areas and cheaper housing around TV will save the day. Perhaps the bubble will turn into a landlocked beach town where certain businesses close during off season periods. Your thoughts and opinions welcome. See you as a full-time neighbor coming early next year. Have a Great day!

Caveat: I'm a cynic. I hate Florida. It would be with the passion of a thousand burning suns, but this is Florida, and only one sun is needed in this stinking, steaming cesspit of humidity. The Villages is beautiful, however, for all its warts and misfortune of being built in Florida.

I'm also from a suburb of New Haven, where I had easy access to NYC and Boston, while enjoying my sidewalks and wooded 3/4-acre fenced in lot with no HOAs or gates and could walk to the center of town after dusk without worry for my safety.

So I totally get that the squares feel like an outdated resort tourist shopping district. Like a line of stores you'd see on a cruise ship, where you can get your polyester-and-spandex cruise outfit in your choice of coral and white, turquoise and white, or coral AND turquoise and white. For $400 per outfit.

Fear not - us younger Boomers and GenX are starting to take over. Our interests are different than the older Boomers that are aging out, dying, being moved into nursing homes or assisted living. Our fashion sense is different, music interests are different. Our idea of "fun retro" products is also different. GenX brought us "foodies" and tons of innovation.

In other words, the demographics of the northern part of the Villages has been changing, and continues to change. What was here - was stuff that 60-year-olds wanted back in the 1970's and 1980's when it was first built. 40 years and a whole generation of people later, we 60-year-olds now - want different things. So those stores that have been around forever are slowly dying out. And hopefully all these GenXers who were so innovative and really understood how the world was turning, will start filling those vacancies with more affordable things that will keep us all interested until our generations are replaced by the next one.

So yes - Spanish Springs is feeling very - depressed these days, when there's no events going on. Even the Mercado is sadly underperforming. They really need to promote it better, and bring more vendors in. Even if it means lowering their spot prices. That might possibly just be a seasonal slump, we'll find out in November once all the snowbirders have been back for awhile.

I am really hoping some entrepreneurs with an understanding of GenX and even Millennials will open businesses in Spanish Springs. The Millennials are the children of the Late-Boomers and early GenXers afterall, and those are the people who residents will want to bring to the squares.

It's all marketing. I get the sense that the current iteration of the Developers' organization still hasn't caught up to the current demographics of the location they're trying to profit from. They are the children and grandchildren of the founders, and they've also lived here most of their lives. Perhaps they're not capable of seeing the width and scope of "who seniors ARE" these days.

[Jim1mack]

As long as there’s an ACE Hardware, a grocery store and golfing we're fine.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by blueash

I have always thought the Morses' model was that healthy retirees move here. They are active and enjoy and use the golf, tennis, clubs, ate and drank out, shopped etc. There were no retirement homes, there were no memory units. That is all new. The plan was that when you aged to the point you were no longer playing golf and tennis and spending money at the merchants, you moved back to your hometown. No need for much real medical care here. Still no second hospital and a low quality hospital only present.

So, to answer your question... if we don't have doctors, then we die sooner or move away, and the homes turn over which is where they make money and replace the ill with healthy people. Rinse and repeat.

I agree with you. When I decided to buy here (I'm not a full timer at this point, but I am a Florida resident spending 8-9 months here, and my medical care is all here now), I saw it as a place for my "active retirement years", but not necessarily where I will "age in place" if I live a lot of years after my activity level has been forced to slow down to the point I can't use enough of the amenities to make sense for me to continue to pay for them.

One would think that if a large percent of the people do wind up living here into their deep years of aging and infirmity, that the market for those services will drive development of the facilities and staff needed to provide them. It took time for the market to attract Walmart, Sam's Club and Costco, but it did eventually.

I don't see why it won't work that way for aging care unless there is just a shortage of caregivers, but that would likely be a national issue, and moving somewhere else would be unlikely to solve it.

[Glowing Horizon]

Originally Posted by Craig Vernon

Doomsday? An observation about current events. My wife and I love TV's but there are problems developing that are worth discussing. Sorry you don't think so. Be Well!

Inconvenient truths are often very uncomfortable to grapple with. The easiest way for those who do not want to be uncomfortable to silence those who dare to observe the truth is to attack & attempt to silence the messenger because the message is so unwelcome. However, opportunities abound for those who dare to not only see reality but who also develop solutions. Think of Steve Jobs & his tenacious, rebellious, demanding pursuit of iPhones. So, you are not wrong. What do you propose as solutions for the future?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I agree with you. When I decided to buy here (I'm not a full timer at this point, but I am a Florida resident spending 8-9 months here, and my medical care is all here now), I saw it as a place for my "active retirement years", but not necessarily where I will "age in place" if I live a lot of years after my activity level has been forced to slow down to the point I can't use enough of the amenities to make sense for me to continue to pay for them.

One would think that if a large percent of the people do wind up living here into their deep years of aging and infirmity, that the market for those services will drive development of the facilities and staff needed to provide them. It took time for the market to attract Walmart, Sam's Club and Costco, but it did eventually.

I don't see why it won't work that way for aging care unless there is just a shortage of caregivers, but that would likely be a national issue, and moving somewhere else would be unlikely to solve it.

There is a shortage for sure, but in areas where there are a LOT of seniors - a shortage can be catastrophic. They need to market the area to attract more health care workers. And those will be people who actually live in the general area, and don't have to travel 40 miles one way just to get to their $15-20/hour jobs. Florida health care employees are notoriously underpaid. Nursing staff, physical therapy, radiologists - heck even janitorial services at hospitals and assisted living and memory care centers - are in bad shape here. Just look at how long those buildings across from the hospital have been for sale. They were part of a senior living center and they've been vacant and for sale for four years. No one wants to touch it, because they know there's no way they can staff it.

The property owners (go ahead and take a guess as to who that might be) need to be more reasonable about their expectations. Yes they absolutely deserve to profit from business rentals and property sales/leases. But their CUSTOMERS - people like Villages residents - also deserve to have the care we need within reasonable proximity, and not have to go halfway down or up the state, or move back north, just because we might need to spend our last years in a wheelchair and there aren't enough nurses to accommodate an aging population. That's something they should've thought about when they built the place.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

......

So I totally get that the squares feel like an outdated resort tourist shopping district. Like a line of stores you'd see on a cruise ship, where you can get your polyester-and-spandex cruise outfit in your choice of coral and white, turquoise and white, or coral AND turquoise and white. For $400 per outfit.

Fear not - us younger Boomers and GenX are starting to take over. Our interests are different than the older Boomers that are aging out, dying, being moved into nursing homes or assisted living. Our fashion sense is different, music interests are different. Our idea of "fun retro" products is also different. GenX brought us "foodies" and tons of innovation.

In other words, the demographics of the northern part of the Villages has been changing, and continues to change. What was here - was stuff that 60-year-olds wanted back in the 1970's and 1980's when it was first built. 40 years and a whole generation of people later, we 60-year-olds now - want different things. So those stores that have been around forever are slowly dying out. And hopefully all these GenXers who were so innovative and really understood how the world was turning, will start filling those vacancies with more affordable things that will keep us all interested until our generations are replaced by the next one.

So yes - Spanish Springs is feeling very - depressed these days, when there's no events going on. Even the Mercado is sadly underperforming. They really need to promote it better, and bring more vendors in. Even if it means lowering their spot prices. That might possibly just be a seasonal slump, we'll find out in November once all the snowbirders have been back for awhile.

I am really hoping some entrepreneurs with an understanding of GenX and even Millennials will open businesses in Spanish Springs. The Millennials are the children of the Late-Boomers and early GenXers afterall, and those are the people who residents will want to bring to the squares.

It's all marketing. I get the sense that the current iteration of the Developers' organization still hasn't caught up to the current demographics of the location they're trying to profit from. They are the children and grandchildren of the founders, and they've also lived here most of their lives. Perhaps they're not capable of seeing the width and scope of "who seniors ARE" these days.

Fair points, but I think you miss a couple of factors of importance: The Developer is pretty much out of "developing" in the Spanish Springs area. Not totally, I admit, as the new efforts at the old Hacienda CC demonstrate, however, they are no longer building and selling entire neighborhoods up there. As a consequence they are no longer economically driven to provide any kind of entertainment or services in the Square with the idea of helping to sell homes. So, whatever goes into the commercial fronts at the Square will have to sink or swim on their own merits. Other than collecting rents, the Developer is not highly motivated.

2nd point: unlike 30 years ago when SS was first opened, there is a lot to find outside of TV, and it's no longer the only game in town.

So, as things continue to evolve, the Developer will likely, if it hasn't already started to happen, be forced to reduce rents, and commercial interests will have to find niches that work for the existing population.