[BlueStarAirlines]

Originally Posted by CarlR33

No kidding. Random posts now and again about the state of the Villages from a non resident. Either jump onboard or stop playing from afar? Even the wizard of oz had issues, LOL

Exactly! Read his post history. Has a history of posting contentious context disguised as a question under the veil of "moving to TV soon".

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Fair points, but I think you miss a couple of factors of importance: The Developer is pretty much out of "developing" in the Spanish Springs area. Not totally, I admit, as the new efforts at the old Hacienda CC demonstrate, however, they are no longer building and selling entire neighborhoods up there. As a consequence they are no longer economically driven to provide any kind of entertainment or services in the Square with the idea of helping to sell homes. So, whatever goes into the commercial fronts at the Square will have to sink or swim on their own merits. Other than collecting rents, the Developer is not highly motivated.

2nd point: unlike 30 years ago when SS was first opened, there is a lot to find outside of TV, and it's no longer the only game in town.

So, as things continue to evolve, the Developer will likely, if it hasn't already started to happen, be forced to reduce rents, and commercial interests will have to find niches that work for the existing population.

Many people who visit the squares during the day aren't Villagers at all. The land that all those stores is on, the buildings - they're all owned by the Villages LLC. And they NEED to profit, if they want to stay in business. They might not be interested in developing anymore, but they still own those properties and still have to profit from them. They won't profit if no one wants to lease their vacancies. They'll still have to pay property tax though, whether they have revenue or not.

In addition, all those people who -work- in the area - need a place to be. Spanish Springs is in a very unique position, immediately off 441 - and the opportunity for it to be a destination location rather than a conclave of shops for residents - is enormous. It's absolutely a missed opportunity.

I dunno. Maybe I've just worked in retail and in offices as an "employee" and "consumer" rather than a boss or corporate geek for too long, but my perspective is one of someone who used to serve people in "destination locations" or used to be a customer in those destination locations.

I can see it very easily as being a miniature version of downtown Mt. Dora, minus the boating lake and hills. Antiques and vintage clothing shop, tiny ethnic restaurants, boutique shops, knick-knack stores, small-batch beauty and skin shop, a "make your own ceramics" shop, an old fashioned but small retro-50's Five and Dime with a soda fountain counter... a location that no matter who you are, how old you are, what your budget is, or how often you come, you'll find SOMETHING in at least one store that you'll want to buy and can afford.

[Glowing Horizon]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I agree with you. When I decided to buy here (I'm not a full timer at this point, but I am a Florida resident spending 8-9 months here, and my medical care is all here now), I saw it as a place for my "active retirement years", but not necessarily where I will "age in place" if I live a lot of years after my activity level has been forced to slow down to the point I can't use enough of the amenities to make sense for me to continue to pay for them.

One would think that if a large percent of the people do wind up living here into their deep years of aging and infirmity, that the market for those services will drive development of the facilities and staff needed to provide them. It took time for the market to attract Walmart, Sam's Club and Costco, but it did eventually.

I don't see why it won't work that way for aging care unless there is just a shortage of caregivers, but that would likely be a national issue, and moving somewhere else would be unlikely to solve it.

IMO most people in TV are in a blissful state of denial. Almost no one wants to be faced with the reality of our guaranteed end. But if the goods & services in TV would be target-marketed to optimize the health & life one has left maybe that would cause a shift. Denial does not make the truth any less real. For instance, why aren’t there “sports medicine”
integrated practices in TV even though most of the active older people are MORE likely to need those types of services than young, fit, healthy people are. Why aren’t there holistic service providers who deal with changing dietary needs for aging bodies needing reduced inflammation & fats & blood sugars & yoga & massage & advice about alternative activities for those experiencing setbacks who may benefit from specialized assistive devices. Those are real NEEDS even before one becomes infirm.

I’ve even wondered why the squares have no dog services like a groomer, pet hotel (with hourly rates/doggy day care services) or downtown, nearby grassy dog parks? Villagers love taking their dogs in their golf carts so why not offer unique supportive services to them? Dogs already go to the squares so offering services & accommodations for them may enable everyone to share a more comfortable, enjoyable experience.

[Glowing Horizon]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Yes, it sucks here.
Houses are falling down, the squares are a ghosttown, no one is there.

This place has always had part time residents. You don’t think the business model is set up for that?

Seriously, stop believing what you read. You aren’t even here. TOTV represents probably 5% of the Villagers. The VLOGGERS, same thing, they need to complain to get views, no one will watch a YouTube video saying everything is great.

Your advice is to deny what can be seen with your own eyes. You are right about those who need to gin up fear & negativity to shore up the NEED for their “informative” services; however, denial means no improvements are sought because none is perceived as being necessary. That’s not good. The challenges in TV are unique. Most who move there would have no idea what a sinkhole is or what typically causes them, for instance. Denying their existence does not make them any less true. However, there is, as always, power in information. Anyone who tours TV & comes away with the impression that it is DECLINING is practicing excellence at denial probably because they envious since cannot afford to live there or they lack the bravery to take the plunge. TOTV is the opposite of The Daily Sun. Take an average of the two & you’ll have a clearer view of your probable Villages lifestyle.

[CODYCAT]

I grew up understanding that the economy’s success made the nation great. You take any business with lousy leadership and it with go out of business. Large and small businesses are folding up daily. It doesn’t take much to look around and see the problem. If people don’t change things this country is doomed. I’m glad I’m old so I don’t have to watch this all happen. I hope real America steps up to fix it.

[Craig Vernon]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Just wondering if you got what you were looking for?

Sure didn't!! I am someone who is evaluating where to buy and the issues developing around them. Those who already live in TV may think I am casting some negative vibe because posts do not show emotion or intent but only words. As far as the snide comments it is a bit disheartening when trying to find constructive thoughts on different points. Oh well have a great day one and all.

[sallyg]

Wonder exactly what you are looking for with this post?

[Craig Vernon]

Originally Posted by Glowing Horizon

Inconvenient truths are often very uncomfortable to grapple with. The easiest way for those who do not want to be uncomfortable to silence those who dare to observe the truth is to attack & attempt to silence the messenger because the message is so unwelcome. However, opportunities abound for those who dare to not only see reality but who also develop solutions. Think of Steve Jobs & his tenacious, rebellious, demanding pursuit of iPhones. So, you are not wrong. What do you propose as solutions for the future?

I believe that businesses inside the bubble should be more responsive to what folks are looking for rather than some niche one size fits all thinking. Example I have read some articles about food delivery services booming inside the bubble. Kroger has a grocery delivery that is expanding but they do not operate a store in TV. I wonder if there is a reason that current businesses do not cater more toward home shoppers or delivery services. Just one small example to answer your question. Thanks for the respectful response.

[Craig Vernon]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I think you make some cogent observations, and you've been doing a lot of research as you approach a possible relocation.
My thoughts (since you asked): What you describe as a "struggle" I would characterize as an "evolving process". Consider that in its infancy, TV was a small "bubble", and the large retailers like Publix, Winn-Dixie, and larger retailers like Walmart, Sam's Club etc. didn't see enough of a market here to warrant investing in the area. Hence, in order to provide some level of service and entertainment, to attract the potential buyers for the homes, the developer chose to develop real estate space and did so by creating Spanish Springs, and eventually LSL. As those areas became developed and populated, it started to make sense for more development along 466 and 441, hence, Publix, Walmart, and chain restaurants like Olive Garden, etc.

Then, as more and more people came, more commercial development ensued, and the demand for the small commercial sites at the squares changed and evolve and continue to do so.
Fast Forward 20 years and TV is no longer "The Bubble", it is the driving economic force of the area. What was needed in the squares, and what worked in the squares when there was nothing outside of TV, is no longer needed and viable now.

Consider also, that since there is so much available near , but outside of TV, the developer no longer needs to create as much entertainment and services inside TV as was needed when the Spanish Springs and LSL squares were developed. So they build less of that into the system.

Whatever you see now, as you prepare to move here, will be different in 20 years. And your desires, abilities, and needs will change as well. It's only a "struggle" in the sense that all change requires adaptive response, which I guess could be viewed as a "struggle".

Thank You!

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by Craig Vernon

Sure didn't!! I am someone who is evaluating where to buy and the issues developing around them. Those who already live in TV may think I am casting some negative vibe because posts do not show emotion or intent but only words. As far as the snide comments it is a bit disheartening when trying to find constructive thoughts on different points. Oh well have a great day one and all.

If your original post was I am still trying to make decisions on where would I best fit in TV. Instead you chose words that didn’t put northern areas desirable. Think about it do you tell your parents wow I can’t believe you bought this house and where you moved What were you thinking? No, you have respect for other people and their choices.

I can definitely say that pretty much every resident that lives in TV thinks their Village is by far better than any other area. Why because it fits for them. When you doom and gloom a certain area, with closed restaurants, yet didn’t mention the new business replacements, or the new apartments, and retail. One will get less than constructive thoughts.

Regroup ask WHY do you love your area, you will find a much better view point. This is my needs do you have that available? I love the northern area with old trees,homes with architectural pride and their build, but not a fan of all the retail. We also don’t need a hospital or doctors in our back door.
That said we are on our Fourth home, and Village and I can say, we moved each time for larger garages, and more sf, a view, with safety in walking and biking. Plus less than 3 miles to turnpike for parks and Gainesville

[Glowing Horizon]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

One of the problems with annual COLA increases and inflation is that inflation happens all the time and the COLA happens in January to SS checks. So salaried people, including SS salaries, are always behind in purchasing power. The recent inflation effect has had quite a bit of an effect throughout the US on the regional / small retail chains everywhere. Likewise the continued decline of the middle class and its purchasing power also doesn't help small retail as well. Several clothing stores here in MA have gone under, and several supermarkets are closing around us this month.

Healthcare and an active retirement life has increased life longevity tremendously for villagers in 40 years, so the turnover is a bit slower than it used to be as people live longer! Yeah! I get to enjoy this life longer than the prior generations! Enjoy it and don't demonize it, as you want an active long retirement don't you?

So I wouldn't judge a retirement community in rural FL by its retail stores when you still have big box options and mail order. For men, this isn't an issue as we start prepping for our eventual move, i have many, many golf shirts, lots of underwear, and socks. . . So I just need occasional jeans and golf shorts replacement. As far as restaurants serving retirees with dietary restrictions and smaller daily requirements, the fewer the options the better for a constant flow of customers eating out 1-2 a week. Though I don't get the attraction of fast food drive throughs for a regular diet.

But the developer doesn't control who moves in the squares, either. Just the rent and revenue cut. Too high and higher turnover. I vote for more breakfast joints to offset the dining only choice. And if you notice that Sawgrass Grove is much smaller retail footprint, focusing more on food. So the developer is adapting to modern times from a 40 year old business model. Lots change in today's world in 40 years, but what's old becomes new again, and that also happens here in TV as well.

So, if you want retire here permanently, I recommend focusing on having the resources to be able to maintain your house / transportation / food purchases comfortably to be able to weather future bouts of inflation or some sort of SS cut or tax increases. Have a good financial conservative forecast to insure your assets are sufficient to support you under multiple scenarios of tax increases, SS cuts and stock market under performances. .

Then whatever happens in your community, you can still enjoy wherever you decide to live here.

Good luck, and if you need an excel 20 year forecast model of income and expenses, to see if you have sufficient assets, let me know and I will send you one. And then if you need help using it, we can zoom through it together.

former finance guy

Wow! Your synopsis is accurate & complete with one caveat: men may not need a lot of new apparel but retired men definitely buy more toys & they are generally larger & higher-priced like sports cars, boats, tech equipment & fancy golf clubs. A newbie would be well-ahead by thinking about which toys he is most likely to need to house.

[Craig Vernon]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Interesting thread. The OP has visited the Villages several times and has been doing extensive due diligence about where he wants to spend a good chunk his hard earned retirement savings. He is very wise to consider both the positives and potential issues of wherever he chooses to make his new home. People are often criticized on this forum for not doing their due diligence and then complaining later about things they should have know about beforehand. Ironically, some are now questioning him for trying to make such a big decision eyes wide open. I applaud him for being so thorough before making such an important decision and considering both the good and potential bad.

I have a few random thoughts on the concerns raised by the OP.

- The Villages never ages significantly, there is constant housing turnover for many reasons, including death, moving to assisted living, wanting to be closer to family and friends, seeking better and more accessible health care, etc…. Since we moved into our neighborhood 9 years ago, about half the homes have turned over and there has been a significant infusion of youth (by Villages standards).

- Speciality boutique retail stores have been closing rapidly in mature areas nationwide. This is not a trend unique to SS and LSL. Online shopping has basically killed that line of business everywhere. To the contrary, the vast number of big box stores in the northern section (with Costco coming soon), is evidence of that area thriving.

- The restaurant business has consistently had the highest failure rate of any business. The establishments that recently closed were basically drinking places that served mediocre pub food and attracted a large younger clientele from outside the bubble. That food is not fit for seniors to be eating on a consistent basis and won’t be missed by many. Dinning places come and go, but the well run and healthy options have better staying power.

- What areas are considered “shiny” is in the eyes of the beholder. I know many people, especially avid golfers, who would never consider living south of the golf mecca between the northern most parts of the Villages and Hillsborough Trail. I know others who don’t golf, but love having walking and bike paths that don’t allow golf carts and wouldn’t consider living north of 44. Neither area is better than the other, just different.

I would advise the OP to consider other potential issues not mentioned as part of his post in this thread. Those would include the availability of quality health care, the effects of investor owned properties and short term rentals, ever increasing traffic and congestion, the relatively non diversified economy of an area dominated by the largest retirement community in the world, the almost daily lighting from around mid June until early October, and the ever increasing expense of both homeowners and auto insurance. All that being said, the Villages is an absolutely wonderful place with no equal. It’s highly unlikely my wife and I would have a home in Florida if the Villages didn’t exist. Florida isn’t our calling, it’s life inside the bubble. Hopefully someday I’ll be able to have a beer with the OP when he becomes a fellow Villager : )

Thank You. My wife and I are coming upon plunge time for retirement and are both committed to TV. New and shiny refers to how the marketing of the Eastport area. We prefer between the 6's. My posts are usually me just pondering current events in order to reason my best decision with a little anxiety mixed in about retirement and best use of a lifetime of savings. I appreciate your insights and would love to have that beer sometime. Thanks Again Craig...

[CybrSage]

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

I'm sorry your reasonable post was met with such anger.

I read it as a rant. He made statements of fact, while also saying he does not actually stay here all the time.
It is akin to me saying how horrible it is in Brussels, how the city is not sustainable, how the surrounding towns night save it, etc, when I am only there part time.
His support was business turnover that happens everywhere, all the time and people grow older like they do everywhere.

The fact the villages are still rapidly growing is proof his statements of fact are not correct. A failing business does not continue to expand every year for decades.

Now, had the inflation stayed at super high levels, sure. They did not

[Jackryan57]

We also left Massachusetts for the very reasons you said and we close on a house in TV at the end of the month. We are very excited.


QUOTE=BostonTom;2366428]Massachusetts is the most highly educated state in the country. Feel free to Google that. However we came here to escape the weather, high taxes and the far left political agenda. We love The Villages and you shouldn't paint everybody from Boston with a broad brush.[/QUOTE]

[Jim1mack]

As long there’s an ACE Hardware, a grocery store and golfing, we're fine.