[Parker]

There are consequences to what's been happening to health care in this country, and these horror stories are some of the results. Hospitals can't afford to hire more staff, doctors leaving the profession, lawsuits proliferating, and many not-so-really-sick people using the ER's as a free clinic.

I can only imagine that the ER staff are equally frustrated and stressed. Imagine having to work there, wanting to do a great job and help people, but constrained by the same circumstances the patients see. Meanwhile, the administrators are at home sleeping comfortably in their own beds. Well, that's not really fair either, as they too answer to the budget gods.

And the answer is? Somebody smart post here please...

[twinklesweep]

Originally Posted by Parker

There are consequences to what's been happening to health care in this country, and these horror stories are some of the results. Hospitals can't afford to hire more staff, doctors leaving the profession, lawsuits proliferating, and many not-so-really-sick people using the ER's as a free clinic.

I can only imagine that the ER staff are equally frustrated and stressed. Imagine having to work there, wanting to do a great job and help people, but constrained by the same circumstances the patients see. Meanwhile, the administrators are at home sleeping comfortably in their own beds. Well, that's not really fair either, as they too answer to the budget gods.

And the answer is? Somebody smart post here please...

I have been following this thread quietly and now waited a few days to see if anyone would answer Parker, and since no one has, I’ll take a stab at it with not a smart post but rather a fantasy post….

I have an impractical answer because (a) it will never happen in the U.S., and (2) it will create a firestorm, particularly from people like those on this thread who have already expressed their displeasure at 30 million uninsured Americans now having access to health care under the recent change in law. And let’s face it: Given what’s happened to the cost of health care, it’s only the insured who can afford it (other than the super wealthy). For example, let’s say a simple blood test costs $40 but that the health insurance companies have negotiated with the lab to pay but $4 for that test, that is, 10%. How can the lab stay in business, as it has to maintain the facility where the blood is drawn as well as that where the blood is processed, plus all the paperwork associated with filing claims as well as providing physicians with the test results? If this is the case, then who pays $40 for this test? Only the uninsured….

We need to eliminate completely the health insurance industry, which is why it will never happen in the U.S., given the $$$$ behind their lobbying. We need a single payer health care system where everyone has access to basic care and beyond that specialized care as needed based on a triage system (like that referred to in this thread as to how the ER works). We need to give up our attitude of “I want what I want when I want it, and I want it NOW!” and accept the principle of triage (difficult for some who posted on this thread). We need to realize that we are the ONLY first world nation without universal health care and to accept that “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” includes being healthy.

The insurance industry is not the only one in the area of health care that spends a fortune on lobbying. For example, we need to eliminate the law that forbids Americans from buying their prescription drugs out of the U.S. in places where identical drugs from identical manufacturers cost considerably less, because bulk purchase prices prevail. The lobbyists of the pharmaceutical industry will see to it that this never happens. Money talks, and it talks loudly, very loudly! And most Americans who take prescription medication are in positions where they have little if any choice, accounting for the poor who cuts their pills in half or even quarters to make them last longer.

Just as “free public education” is far from free, so will “free health care” not be free. Right now my health coverage costs $336.15 monthly (or $4,033.80 annually) + copays and deductibles. Specifically this is $104.90 for Medicare, $184.75 for Medicare Supplement, and $46.50 for the Medicare Part D Prescription Drug Plan (the last a terrible program that caters to both the insurance and pharmaceutical industries and NOT to the consumer, IMHO). The “bureaucracy” of this system is outrageous, among medical offices, hospitals, and other providers devoting energies to the paperwork of claims and their counterparts in the insurance companies approving or denying them as well as dealing with the insured with problems. Imagine a system whereby care is provided based on triage, and the provider is paid out of tax dollars based on a set scale. Thus, instead of the government bureaucracy paying the insurance bureaucracy, there would be but one bureaucracy, while one’s doctor determines what care is needed, rather than a clerk at an insurance company.

It’ll never happen here (as it has in other places)!!!

Instead of eliminating the health insurance industry, the new law kowtows to it, which was likely the only way the law could pass, based on the pressures on legislators by lobbyists. So in some ways we are stuck with the same system, only with more bureaucracy rather than less. At least the real benefit is that all Americans will have access to basic health care, not just those who are fortunate enough to have insurance coverage either from an employer who provides it (many do not) or a government program such as Medicare or Medicaid, even if the system is far from ideal.

I realize I’m not a health care planner, and I’m sure this is oversimplistic. But I know, I know, this is a fantasy U.S. I’m envisioning. And at the risk of repeating myself, it’ll never happen…. So, let the firestorm begin!

[shcisamax]

[QUOTE=twinklesweep;672815]

For example, let’s say a simple blood test costs $40 but that the health insurance companies have negotiated with the lab to pay but $4 for that test, that is, 10%. How can the lab stay in business, as it has to maintain the facility where the blood is drawn as well as that where the blood is processed, plus all the paperwork associated with filing claims as well as providing physicians with the test results? If this is the case, then who pays $50 for this test? Only the uninsured….


YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT THE BLOOD TEST WAS ACTUALLY PRICED CORRECTLY AT $40 AND NOT $4.

[OnTrack]

Originally Posted by perrjojo

I don't think anyone doubts that the most urgent cases are first to be treated and that is as it should be. I think we are just wanting to have our medical sitituation improve in The Villages.

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

I have been following this thread quietly and now waited a few days to see if anyone would answer Parker, and since no one has, I’ll take a stab at it with not a smart post but rather a fantasy post….

I have an impractical answer because (a) it will never happen in the U.S., and (2) it will create a firestorm, particularly from people like those on this thread who have already expressed their displeasure at 30 million uninsured Americans now having access to health care under the recent change in law. And let’s face it: Given what’s happened to the cost of health care, it’s only the insured who can afford it (other than the super wealthy). For example, let’s say a simple blood test costs $40 but that the health insurance companies have negotiated with the lab to pay but $4 for that test, that is, 10%. How can the lab stay in business, as it has to maintain the facility where the blood is drawn as well as that where the blood is processed, plus all the paperwork associated with filing claims as well as providing physicians with the test results? If this is the case, then who pays $50 for this test? Only the uninsured….

We need to eliminate completely the health insurance industry, which is why it will never happen in the U.S., given the $$$$ behind their lobbying. We need a single payer health care system where everyone has access to basic care and beyond that specialized care as needed based on a triage system (like that referred to in this thread as to how the ER works). We need to give up our attitude of “I want what I want when I want it, and I want it NOW!” and accept the principle of triage (difficult for some who posted on this thread). We need to realize that we are the ONLY first world nation without universal health care and to accept that “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” includes being healthy.

The insurance industry is not the only one in the area of health care that spends a fortune on lobbying. For example, we need to eliminate the law that forbids Americans from buying their prescription drugs out of the U.S. in places where identical drugs from identical manufacturers cost considerably less, because bulk purchase prices prevail. The lobbyists of the pharmaceutical industry will see to it that this never happens. Money talks, and it talks loudly, very loudly! And most Americans who take prescription medication are in positions where they have little if any choice, accounting for the poor who cuts their pills in half or even quarters to make them last longer.

Just as “free public education” is far from free, so will “free health care” not be free. Right now my health coverage costs $336.15 monthly (or $4,033.80 annually) + copays and deductibles. Specifically this is $104.90 for Medicare, $184.75 for Medicare Supplement, and $46.50 for the Medicare Part D Prescription Drug Plan (the last a terrible program that caters to both the insurance and pharmaceutical industries and NOT to the consumer, IMHO). The “bureaucracy” of this system is outrageous, among medical offices, hospitals, and other providers devoting energies to the paperwork of claims and their counterparts in the insurance companies approving or denying them as well as dealing with the insured with problems. Imagine a system whereby care is provided based on triage, and the provider is paid out of tax dollars based on a set scale. Thus, instead of the government bureaucracy paying the insurance bureaucracy, there would be but one bureaucracy, while one’s doctor determines what care is needed, rather than a clerk at an insurance company.

It’ll never happen here (as it has in other places)!!!

Instead of eliminating the health insurance industry, the new law kowtows to it, which was likely the only way the law could pass, based on the pressures on legislators by lobbyists. So in some ways we are stuck with the same system, only with more bureaucracy rather than less. At least the real benefit is that all Americans will have access to basic health care, not just those who are fortunate enough to have insurance coverage either from an employer who provides it (many do not) or a government program such as Medicare or Medicaid, even if the system is far from ideal.

I realize I’m not a health care planner, and I’m sure this is oversimplistic. But I know, I know, this is a fantasy U.S. I’m envisioning. And at the risk of repeating myself, it’ll never happen…. So, let the firestorm begin!

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

It always amazes me at the number of people who think it's OK, for the greatest nation this planet has ever seen....to let so many of its citizens go without basic health care.

And yes, I am fully aware that it is the law to provide serious emergency care.

That is much different than "health care" however.

I truly hope that your well thought out/written post can stay up.......but I wouldn't bet on it.

.

[gomoho]

2 things:

We Americans subsidize the pharma industry research by paying more money, just as the uninsured subsidize the insured. So if we were able to pay the lower cost offered to other countries for these drugs research would suffer. Not saying it is right or wrong, but it is what it is.

If you choose a medicare advantage for your health care (assuming it is available where you are) your health care costs would be next to nothing. They reimburse you $99. for your basic medicare and there is no cost for your supplemental or prescription.
It's probably the best deal those of us that have worked hard and paid into the system for many, many years will ever see. Too bad Obamacare wants to get rid of the advantage plan 'cause then all of us enjoying that opportunity will get to pay more. However I believe it is a good example of private industry managing these health care dollars a whole lot better than any government entity could. They are profitable, not running a giant deficit trying to provide service.

[ilovetv]

Maybe those who want the insurance companies to cease and desist could explain how the federal, congressional and postal employees would then have their choice of 25+ private insurer health insurance plans, with family premiums amounting to $1200 per month or more.....and the "government pays" (taxpayer pays) about 70% of that premium for these congressional and federal employees who are not going to vote away their own benefits.

For example, one of the FL Humana family insurance plans premium is $1331 per month, and the government (taxpayer) pays $920 of that employee's monthly premium. These are mighty good benefits that these federal and congressional employees have, but never seem to extend their type of benefits to the uninsured, working poor taxpayer, or the taxpayer who has skeletal coverage and high deductible of several thousand dollars, and no dental, vision, prescription, flexible spending, long-term care and other such benefits that the decision-makers in Washington afford themselves.

Federal and congressional plan choices for FL:

Insurance Programs

Premiums:
http://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insura...postal-hmo.pdf

Plan Information

[janmcn]

Just last week, the Florida Legislature decided not to expand medicaid to almost one million uninsured Floridians, thereby passing up 51 billion dollars in federal dollars over the next ten years.

Those federal dollars, paid by Floridians in their income taxes, will now go to other states. Think about that the next time you pay your income taxes. Your tax dollars are going to pay for healthcare in other states. How does that help the healthcare situation in Florida?

[asianthree]

sad to say even if you work in a hospital does not get you any better service in ED

[twinklesweep]

[quote=shcisamax;672835]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

For example, let’s say a simple blood test costs $40 but that the health insurance companies have negotiated with the lab to pay but $4 for that test, that is, 10%. How can the lab stay in business, as it has to maintain the facility where the blood is drawn as well as that where the blood is processed, plus all the paperwork associated with filing claims as well as providing physicians with the test results? If this is the case, then who pays $40 for this test? Only the uninsured….


YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT THE BLOOD TEST WAS ACTUALLY PRICED CORRECTLY AT $40 AND NOT $4.

I'm not sure what is meant here. Is it being suggested that a test involving drawing blood at one facility, transporting it to another, processing the blood, generating test results, notifying the ordering physician of the results, preparing and filing a claim form, and maintaining the bookkeeping might nowadays cost only $4? Or does it mean that the test is WORTH only $4 but that the uninsured are mandated to pay the full freight of $40?

Originally Posted by OnTrack

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

It always amazes me at the number of people who think it's OK, for the greatest nation this planet has ever seen....to let so many of its citizens go without basic health care....

.

What amazes me even more is the number of people who not only think it's okay "to let so many of its citizens go without basic health care" but actually resent or object that those citizens might actually have access to this basic health care with the recent change in the law. All I can do is shake my head....

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

I have been following this thread quietly and now waited a few days to see if anyone would answer Parker, and since no one has, I’ll take a stab at it with not a smart post but rather a fantasy post….
snipped

great post! and while i am not a subscriber to the single payer system philosophy, i, too have a healthcare fantasy......

would that those who are truly concerned about health insurance and health care would eliminate the waste, fraud and abuse in each of those industries. having worked a good number of years in both industries and then in a state office that licenses the professionals and technical employees in those professions - i am confident that such an effort would result in the fiscal wherewithall to provide quality care for all!

adjunct efforts to the elimination of waste, fraud and abuse that are required are the changes in tort law and in the mindset to sue! but that is another issue for another thread!

[Sage327]

IT sounds like they should be reported. I'm not sure who you would contact but these horror stories should be brought to some official's attention. In this day and age this treatment is unacceptable..

[twinklesweep]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Just last week, the Florida Legislature decided not to expand medicaid to almost one million uninsured Floridians, thereby passing up 51 billion dollars in federal dollars over the next ten years.

Those federal dollars, paid by Floridians in their income taxes, will now go to other states. Think about that the next time you pay your income taxes. Your tax dollars are going to pay for healthcare in other states. How does that help the healthcare situation in Florida?

Outrageous! I was not aware of this. We can use the ballot box to fix this. But will we?...

Originally Posted by njbchbum

great post! and while i am not a subscriber to the single payer system philosophy, i, too have a healthcare fantasy......

would that those who are truly concerned about health insurance and health care would eliminate the waste, fraud and abuse in each of those industries. having worked a good number of years in both industries and then in a state office that licenses the professionals and technical employees in those professions - i am confident that such an effort would result in the fiscal wherewithall to provide quality care for all!

adjunct efforts to the elimination of waste, fraud and abuse that are required are the changes in tort law and in the mindset to sue! but that is another issue for another thread!

These are certainly worthwhile fantasies to consider. However, even with the elimination of "waste, fraud and abuse in each of those industries" and tort reform, we are still left with INSURED and UNINSURED. I still feel that the best way to get rid of the latter is to eliminate INSURANCE as the structure for providing health care....

[Moderator]

A reminder, the topic is TVRH Emergency Room, not national health insurance/health care issues.

Timely since today's paper discusses future expansion plans for TVRH and doubling the number of ER beds.

[JB in TV]

Announced in this morning's Daily Sun:

"$50 Million HOSPITAL EXPANSION" Addition will double size of emergency room.

[OnTrack]

"TOTV members discussions, spur action to address emergency room shortcomings."

I like it!

.