[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by cabo35

It would appear that we are on the slippery slope of one of the oldest legal debates in the world. Montesquieu's masterpiece, The Spirit of the Laws is a fascinating treatise on the social, cultural and political implications of law.

A biblical reference can be found in Romans 2:29 (New American Standard Bible)

29But (A)he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and (B)circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the (C)Spirit, not by the letter; (D)and his praise is not from men, but from God.

The best explanation for the debate I can find is from an author unknown in Wikipedia.

The letter of the law versus the spirit of the law is an idiomatic antithesis. When one obeys the letter of the law but not the spirit, one is obeying the literal interpretation of the words (the "letter") of the law, but not the intent of those who wrote the law. Conversely, when one obeys the spirit of the law but not the letter, one is doing what the authors of the law intended, though not adhering to the literal wording.

My best guess is that each of us selectively subscribes to the position that fits are comfort zone as defined by our personal values, experience and biases. That is not to say we might be for the letter of the law in some matters and for the spirit in others. Maintaining 25 mph in a 25 mph zone comes to mind.

By the way.....I am predominately a spirit of the law advocate.

4thekids

I am having a dickens of a time understanding your great mind Cabo.

I do know that if we have a bunch of kids living here, than it is not a retirement community...to me anyway.

[harbor53]

I know the Villages are not exactly the liberal center of the universe. Indeed, there is a rumor that many of you (hopefully, soon to be "us") are a wee bit on the conservative side.

If this is true..I find it very interesting that everyone is OK with the concept of "Big Developer" and "Big Covanent Rules" that intrude on individual liberty.

I'm not judging. Heck, I wanna join you. But - the willingness to surrender personal liberty in exchange for the greater good....well, that's a pretty lefty concept. Maybe the Villages will add a health insurance mandate. Sal'right by me. Villages Care!

Please - I am not trying to offend or judge anyone. It's all OK from my perspective - we need to understand our differences and celebrate what each brings to the table (I'm liberal in that way). But - it is an interesting contradiction and one that I see as slightly ironic.

Cheers!

Harbor

[cabo35]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I am having a dickens of a time understanding your great mind Cabo.

I do know that if we have a bunch of kids living here, than it is not a retirement community...to me anyway.

Are we "Florida's Friendliest Hometown" or, "Florida's Friendliest Retirement Community Except When Kids Are Involved".

I totally understand the restrictions on kids. I agree that those restrictions are important. If by magic they were lifted, the negative implications on schools, taxes, and lifestyle would be significant.

However, the spirit of the restrictions addresses those issues squarely and adequately. Some Villagers have advocated the letter of the law and speak of doomsday for the Villages if a rare exception, as in the example posted, is tolerated. They infer that it puts us on an exaggerated "slippery slope" ....a lame, worn out turn of words......and erroneously suggest calamitous consequences for a single breach or false step. It conjures and deviously excites alarm that presupposes inevitable disaster. Those who use it do not recognize a vast middle ground where the community as a whole.....you know...Florida's Friendliest Hometown.....may be better served by the spirit of law.

I am delighted that children are allowed (tolerated) by the covenants. I enjoy the sound of children playing and hearing their laughter. I smile when I see young families walking downtown. There is so much joy and hope in their exploration of life. I also get the "retirement" component you mention. Surely we are not in danger of the slippery slope that will overnight take our lifestyle away by exploring the middle ground or making a reasonable accommodation under exigent circumstance. I doubt the sky will fall or our lifestyle will be compromised. I am aware of the strong feelings regarding kids in paradise, therefore, I will retreat to an undisclosed bunker and await incoming.

Great mind????? Nahhhhhh........just a wannabe golfer between rounds with to much time on his hands.

[graciegirl]

I see you in your bunker.

I like kids too. No I love kids, always will. It is just when they are around I worry about them. I like being with my peers. I don't want to worry.

Most of us are sensible...and kind. I guess we can debate this ad infinitum, but give an exception and you have a mess.

And you do have a great mind Cabo.

[collie1228]

For the record, I have two kids and two grandkids, and love them all without reservation. That being said, there are people who don't like kids, or like them fine but don't want them living next door during retirement. I respect that attitude, even if I don't share it. The person who doesn't want kids living next door moves to The Villages partly because he knows that the rules don't allow his next door neighbor to have kids living there full time. By allowing exceptions to the rule, aren't we are infringing on this person's rights as a homeowner in The Villages? As far as I'm concerned, he should have the ability to force the powers that be to enforce the rules. That's JMHO.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by collie1228

For the record, I have two kids and two grandkids, and love them all without reservation. That being said, there are people who don't like kids, or like them fine but don't want them living next door during retirement. I respect that attitude, even if I don't share it. The person who doesn't want kids living next door moves to The Villages partly because he knows that the rules don't allow his next door neighbor to have kids living there full time. By allowing exceptions to the rule, aren't we are infringing on this person's rights as a homeowner in The Villages? As far as I'm concerned, he should have the ability to force the powers that be to enforce the rules. That's JMHO.

he can

[2BNTV]

Originally Posted by cabo35

Are we "Florida's Friendliest Hometown" or, "Florida's Friendliest Retirement Community Except When Kids Are Involved".

I totally understand the restrictions on kids. I agree that those restrictions are important. If by magic they were lifted, the negative implications on schools, taxes, and lifestyle would be significant.

However, the spirit of the restrictions addresses those issues squarely and adequately. Some Villagers have advocated the letter of the law and speak of doomsday for the Villages if a rare exception, as in the example posted, is tolerated. They infer that it puts us on an exaggerated "slippery slope" ....a lame, worn out turn of words......and erroneously suggest calamitous consequences for a single breach or false step. It conjures and deviously excites alarm that presupposes inevitable disaster. Those who use it do not recognize a vast middle ground where the community as a whole.....you know...Florida's Friendliest Hometown.....may be better served by the spirit of law.

I am delighted that children are allowed (tolerated) by the covenants. I enjoy the sound of children playing and hearing their laughter. I smile when I see young families walking downtown. There is so much joy and hope in their exploration of life. I also get the "retirement" component you mention. Surely we are not in danger of the slippery slope that will overnight take our lifestyle away by exploring the middle ground or making a reasonable accommodation under exigent circumstance. I doubt the sky will fall or our lifestyle will be compromised. I am aware of the strong feelings regarding kids in paradise, therefore, I will retreat to an undisclosed bunker and await incoming.

Great mind????? Nahhhhhh........just a wannabe golfer between rounds with to much time on his hands.

cabo35:

Great Post. Eloquently expressed thoughts.

[jgbama]

Originally Posted by collie1228

For the record, I have two kids and two grandkids, and love them all without reservation. That being said, there are people who don't like kids, or like them fine but don't want them living next door during retirement. I respect that attitude, even if I don't share it. The person who doesn't want kids living next door moves to The Villages partly because he knows that the rules don't allow his next door neighbor to have kids living there full time. By allowing exceptions to the rule, aren't we are infringing on this person's rights as a homeowner in The Villages? As far as I'm concerned, he should have the ability to force the powers that be to enforce the rules. That's JMHO.

It's raining here at our golf course (place I work) so, I've read through this entire thread. I risk labeling myself as a masochist. To lighten everyone up a little, this (for some reason) brings to mind a definition my "grandpappy" told me of a "brat". He said, "Son a brat is a kid who behaves like yours but belongs to a neighbor"!

Isn't it funny that I don't remember being annoyed when our son cried, but went bonkers when we are around other kids crying! Now that he is 26, I'm crying because he still has his hand too close to my wallet!! Guess that is why I'm ready to be around people my own age. . . play lots of golf, and enjoy my afternoon "bourbon and branch waters", and love on his mamma!!!

I think TV has and will survive an occasional infraction. I understand the rules and haven't moved there yet. I respect all the differing opinions expressed here and regret some new readers of TOTV get the wrong opinion of the residents there. No Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling!

I plan to be as protective as most "frogs" are and will probably want the squares restricted to residents and card carrying guests! After all it is YOUR hometown once you move there!!

It quit raining and I have to sign off and vacuum the Pro Shop. So. . . my times up and I thank you for yours!

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by jgbama

I plan to be as protective as most "frogs" are and will probably want the squares restricted to residents and card carrying guests! After all it is YOUR hometown once you move there!!

The public is welcome in the Squares, shops, movie theatres and restaurants. Without people from surrounding communities, many business would probably end up closing. The roads are owned by the County, not by The Villages.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

..... Without people from surrounding communities, many business would probably end up closing. .....

Ditto.

Bill

[jgbama]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

The public is welcome in the Squares, shops, movie theatres and restaurants. Without people from surrounding communities, many business would probably end up closing. The roads are owned by the County, not by The Villages.

Originally Posted by Bill-n-Brillo

Ditto.

Bill

My comment was in jest. I understand the need for the local community, especially in the summer months and certainly don't purport closing the squares to just residents or card carrying guests!! (Oh, my.) In hindsight, it was probably a bad idea to attempt and lighten some folks up with a bit of humor. I guess I'm becoming a little too comfortable on TOTV and forget none of you have met me yet.

It just bothered me to read emotions getting so out of hand to the point that new members were stating they were having second thoughts about considering TV!!

[Bill-n-Brillo]

All is forgiven, John. Now put that pointy little hat on and go sit in the corner for a while.....................

Bill

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by jgbama

My comment was in jest.

It just bothered me to read emotions getting so out of hand to the point that new members were stating they were having second thoughts about considering TV!!

Sorry, I didn't get that you were jesting. Lots of peeps think that residents "own" the Town Squares. When we first purchased in TV, we were under the misconception that TV was a totally gated community.

I think it is healthy when potential buyers question whether TV is right for them. Not everyone is comfortable with deed restrictions. I personally love them, but there are lots of "free spirits" out there who want to do their own thing. TV isn't for everyone. I know at least 20 couples and some singles who moved to TV, and then regretted their purchase. Not because of Deed Restrictions, but because of lifestyle issues. It's a small percentage of the peeps who are estatic about their decision. But TV doesn't suit everyone's needs, and potential buyers are wise to think twice.

[gomsiepop]

For every rule created there is someone that will find a way to circumvent that rule. Unless someone is being hurt or bothered I don't see a problem.

[BettyCrocked]

Not trying to derail the topic, but I thought I'd share a funny thing my son said. My first weekend down here after closing on my home, I went for a ride in the golf cart with my sister and my son (he's 21). We rode past the town square just after 9 Pm when things were winding down and passed a group of women who were late 20's to early 30's. I'll put this as nicely as possible but they were dressed like hookers. My sister said "why would they want to come here to party?" My son quickly replied "lookin for a sugar daddy!" I guess he's wise beyond his years.