[perrjojo]

We have lived most of our life in large metropolitan areas. Dallas- Fort Worth close to 7 million. Atlanta close to 6 million. My husbands family lives in Orange County CA...population over 3 million. When my husbands family first moved to El Torro, CA the population was 200 and it is now over 77,000. Why have these areas grown so much? Because they are desirable areas. The Villages is a desirable area and will continue to grow in some fashion even if the developer stops building. Growth =equals progress. Without growth we become stagnant. When we become stagnant we begin to decay. To sustain future generations we must have growth. Do we want change? Maybe not, but change is inevitable and I vote for the future and therefore I vote for growth.

[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by perrjojo

We have lived most of our life in large metropolitan areas. Dallas- Fort Worth close to 7 million. Atlanta close to 6 million. My husbands family lives in Orange County CA...population over 3 million. When my husbands family first moved to El Torro, CA the population was 200 and it is now over 77,000. Why have these areas grown so much? Because they are desirable areas. The Villages is a desirable area and will continue to grow in some fashion even if the developer stops building. Growth =equals progress. Without growth we become stagnant. When we become stagnant we begin to decay. To sustain future generations we must have growth. Do we want change? Maybe not, but change is inevitable and I vote for the future and therefore I vote for growth.

Great post - I agree wholeheartedly.

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by NJblue

Peachie, thanks for your somewhat condescending response but it doesn't really address my issues:

You're claim that I want to shut the door behind me is not valid on two points. First, when we bought we were told that development would stop after the Brownwood section was completed. Even the developer used the term "Final Phase" to his advantage in marketing it. When you have the word of someone, I don't think you should be embarrassed to call them on it when that trust is broken. Secondly, the question I am asking is what would people prefer in terms of ultimate size. This has nothing to do with your implied selfishness. If you want to go on a quiet romantic walk with your spouse you probably prefer that a crowd of people don't follow you to that place. By your logic, you should prefer that people follow you there since otherwise you would be selfishly "shutting the door" on their opportunity to enjoy that space.

I agree about the economic thing and said so in my post ... perhaps you missed it. I only brought it up since some of those who endorsed future growth did so based on their beliefs of how it would help home values. I think their logic is 100% wrong.

As to the golf courses, ummm guess what? If I have to wait for all the people moving into the new sections to get old and die to get a tee time, I will a) have many years of waiting more and more for a tee time and b) may die myself while waiting. Having hopes for better tee times 10-15 years from now is no reason to want development now.

I'm not so sure about other developments in this area occuring if TV doesn't expand. TV has proven to be unique in its formula. Other developments have bee started in the area and are still crawling to be built out - even though their house values are significantly better in these other areas. The reason - they don't have the full package that only TV can offer. Even if they do come, at least their population won't be contending for our amenities. Also, their growth rate will be substantially less than what TV's rate of growth will be.

I wasn't condescending, NJ.

Your post indicated you felt anyone who felt differently than you about expansion than you might not have experience with unrestrained growth, now that may be condescending. But to get back to the subject at hand...

The romantic walk analogy is strange for me because if I moved to a promised development of at least 110,000 people, I wouldn't be expecting a lot of privacy in public.

I believe the "Final Phase" used in marketing was the developers truth at the time. I do think the Morse's had thought The Villages would be contained within those borders.

However, life is fluid and when that beautiful piece of land on 466A became available, the Morse's changed their plans. My husband and I had hoped The Villages would acquire that property but we have the confidence in these developers that some don't.

As I said in my previous post, we have the option of leaving here anytime we no longer like it, that leaves us able to enjoy life here and now. Perhaps yours is the twisted logic, why would one insist we constantly worry about problems with The Villages that may never happen?

Who knows, maybe some of the profits from this development will be used to pay the penalties from the IRS suit. There's another positive!

[handyman]

Snowbirds,Snowflakes,Frogs all have a vested interest in"The Villages" we have made this our home,there are far to many weekly,monthly rental units, this should have been nipped in the "bud",then it would have been a true "Paradise"I am sorry to say a good part of these people are disgusting slobs who believe that they are paying for the right to toss thier trash on our manicured lawns and allow them to push in front of us at the markets and resturants because they are "On Vacation"

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by Peachie

I am open to growth. It is crowded in the winter months but I love the pulse of The Villages and the vibrancy of people engaged and enjoying life. I try not to be impatient in lines and to plan around the busiest times. I still wave at people... We get most of the tee times we try for but we are very flexible with times and courses.

We do run into the occasional "out of sorts" personalities but allow for the pain that may be in their lives of which most of us don't know. It's rewarding to start small conversations with some of them and see their true personalities come out, it is just their current struggles that cloud the real person.

This truly is a unique, wonderful community and I thank God we found it when we did. I am not concerned about more Villagers, we are all on this planet together and I'm sure needed facilities and commercial developments will follow. Thank you, thank you, thank you Morse family.

Peachie, Thank you for the positive post. I would love to be your neighbor!

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by handyman

Snowbirds,Snowflakes,Frogs all have a vested interest in"The Villages" we have made this our home,there are far to many weekly,monthly rental units, this should have been nipped in the "bud",then it would have been a true "Paradise"I am sorry to say a good part of these people are disgusting slobs who believe that they are paying for the right to toss thier trash on our manicured lawns and allow them to push in front of us at the markets and resturants because they are "On Vacation"

handyman, I am one of the people who has rented in The Villages several times on a weekly basis during the past couple of years to try out different Villages as I hope to become a full time Villager someday. I would love to rent in The Villages for 2 or 3 months at a time, but I still work full time in the hope that someday I can become a Villager. During my rentals in TV I have never thrown trash on anyone's lawn or pushed ahead of anyone at Publix, Sweetbay, Winn-Dixie or any of the restaurants in The Villages. I will be back in TV at the end of next week for 8 days. I assure you that I will be on my best behavior at all times during this visit.

I am sorry if you have had a bad experience(s) with a renter(s) in The Villages, but not all renters are like that. Thank you for considering this renter and TV wannabee's point of view.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Peachie

I wasn't condescending, NJ.

Your post indicated you felt anyone who felt differently than you about expansion than you might not have experience with unrestrained growth, now that may be condescending. But to get back to the subject at hand...

The romantic walk analogy is strange for me because if I moved to a promised development of at least 110,000 people, I wouldn't be expecting a lot of privacy in public.

I believe the "Final Phase" used in marketing was the developers truth at the time. I do think the Morse's had thought The Villages would be contained within those borders.

However, life is fluid and when that beautiful piece of land on 466A became available, the Morse's changed their plans. My husband and I had hoped The Villages would acquire that property but we have the confidence in these developers that some don't.

As I said in my previous post, we have the option of leaving here anytime we no longer like it, that leaves us able to enjoy life here and now. Perhaps yours is the twisted logic, why would one insist we constantly worry about problems with The Villages that may never happen?

Who knows, maybe some of the profits from this development will be used to pay the penalties from the IRS suit. There's another positive!

Always, Peachie gets to the bottom line and clearly posts it.

I have utmost respect for her evaluations.

I think the OP is surprised by the results of the poll. Obviously most of us think that continued expansion is o.k.

Now either people who disagree with the results above will say that we who post on TOTV are not representative of the population or in someway tell us how they do not agree with the results.

Seniors are damn stubborn.

I try to keep an open mind and sometimes my mind is changed by an excellent argument from someone I have learned to respect on this forum.

I feel Peachie's post most clearly sum up what is happening here.

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by handyman

Snowbirds,Snowflakes,Frogs all have a vested interest in"The Villages" we have made this our home,there are far to many weekly,monthly rental units, this should have been nipped in the "bud",then it would have been a true "Paradise"I am sorry to say a good part of these people are disgusting slobs who believe that they are paying for the right to toss thier trash on our manicured lawns and allow them to push in front of us at the markets and resturants because they are "On Vacation"

how do you know they are a renter...the couple next door to us rented for seven years same house..took loving care of the home like it was their own...i don't think i would know if the person in line was a renter or a snowflake...

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

As long as they keep building sufficient golf courses, amenities, retail establishments and infrastructure, what's the difference?
The thing about the Villages is that each little area is separate in alot of of ways from the rest of the Villages. I live in Silver Lake and what happens down near Brownwood doesn't affect me. Heck, what happens south of 466 rarely affects me. I think that's the beauty of The Villages. It is a bunch of smaller villages all by a common theme but not really affecting each other very much.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

As long as they keep building sufficient golf courses, amenities, retail establishments and infrastructure, what's the difference?
The thing about the Villages is that each little area is separate in alot of of ways from the rest of the Villages. I live in Silver Lake and what happens down near Brownwood doesn't affect me. Heck, what happens south of 466 rarely affects me. I think that's the beauty of The Villages. It is a bunch of smaller villages all by a common theme but not really affecting each other very much.

I think it is this attitude that pervades a lot of this opinion - as long as it's not in my backyard, it's not my problem, so let others worry about it.. The unfortunate thing is that what is happening in the southeastern part of TV has significant impact on those who live there.

I love Graciegirl's general positive attitudes about TV, but must say that I am a bit disappointed in her views on this. In other posts she has talked about the congestion at Publix at Colony and said you have to take turns breathing there and advised people to buy in areas where there is not so much congestion. Yet, now that she no longer lives there she is more than happy to see an additional 4,000 people contend for that store as well as the Colony Cottage rec center.

There is still a lot of undeveloped land up near Southern Trace. I wonder if people who live in that area would be as positive about future development if that becomes the next growth area and thousands of additional people go to that Publix and contend for activities at Laurel Manor. Just because recent growth has been to the south, it doesn't mean that that's the only place that it will go.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by NJblue

I think it is this attitude that pervades a lot of this opinion - it's not my problem, so let others worry about it.. The unfortunate thing is that what is happening in the southeastern part of TV has significant impact on those who live there.

I love Graciegirl's general positive attitudes about TV, but must say that I am a bit disappointed in her views on this. In other posts she has talked about the congestion at Publix at Colony and said you have to take turns breathing there and advised people to buy in areas where there is not so much congestion. Yet, now that she no longer lives there she is more than happy to see an additional 4,000 people contend for that store as well as the Colony Cottage rec center.

There is still a lot of undeveloped land up near Southern Trace. I wonder if people who live in that area would be as positive about future development if that becomes the next growth area and thousands of additional people go to that Publix and contend for activities at Laurel Manor. Just because recent growth has been to the south, it doesn't mean that that's the only place that it will go.

I hate when people are disappointed in me. I am a firstborn.

I have this to say about that. If you carefully have read a lot of posts for several years you will see that people never thought that the Lake Sumter Landing area would have business to rent it, and business around it. I think that as the need is perceived by businesses, that they will come and fill the need for grocery stores, doctors, hair salons and restaurants. That is the beauty of capitalism and free enterprise. Unfortunately, or fortunately for them, the landowners around the new builds are holding on for a very high price for their property and the business may be built down the road and not golf cart accessible, but sooner or later, I think it will fill in, later than some want but sooner than some think.

It will all work out, I think.

It will be hell on wheels during the months of January, February and March when our population swells. But the wise will stay a bit out of harms way, cook at home more, golf at places they haven't gone before, let the seat savers have at it and work around it.

And the grasshoppers need to be patient. It will come. It will come.

[NJblue]

Originally Posted by Peachie

I believe the "Final Phase" used in marketing was the developers truth at the time. I do think the Morse's had thought The Villages would be contained within those borders.

However, life is fluid and when that beautiful piece of land on 466A became available, the Morse's changed their plans.

Truth at the time?! Really? You are content making a life decision based on someone telling you something with his fingers crossed behind his back?

Based on your misreading of my previous analogy, either you don't read analogies well or I don't create them well, but let me try again. Continuing the romantic theme ... Suppose you called a restaurant for a reservation at a corner table with a great view and were assured by the manager that you could have it. However, when you arrived, you found that table occupied. If the manager said, "I told you could have it based on my understanding at the time that it would be available, hence it was the truth at the time. Since then someone came and offered me $25 to have that table." Would you just shrug and say, "Well at least it was the truth at the time" ?

Obviously, where the analogy falls short is that a table in a restaurant is not a life decision. But, it does illustrate the value of one's commitment to you.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by NJblue

Truth at the time?! Really? You are content making a life decision based on someone telling you something with his fingers crossed behind his back?

Based on your misreading of my previous analogy, either you don't read analogies well or I don't create them well, but let me try again. Continuing the romantic theme ... Suppose you called a restaurant for a reservation at a corner table with a great view and were assured by the manager that you could have it. However, when you arrived, you found that table occupied. If the manager said, "I told you could have it based on my understanding at the time that it would be available, hence it was the truth at the time. Since then someone came and offered me $25 to have that table." Would you just shrug and say, "Well at least it was the truth at the time" ?

Obviously, where the analogy falls short is that a table in a restaurant is not a life decision. But, it does illustrate the value of one's commitment to you.

Who and how were you lied to? Who switched things up on you?

A good business, a successful business is flexible. I have worked in business. A lot of us have. We have had campaigns extended and the rules changed as something hit big that we were selling.

As I have said before, I am sometimes quite surprised by people who really don't understand how most business works. They may have taught, worked for the government, or some other institution, and be very, very smart people,.......

Business is fluid. The economy appears to be on the upswing, where a couple of years ago when plans were made it was on the downturn.

I do not think anyone ever spoke "ex cathedra" about when the building would stop. Some sales reps may have run their mouths, but I don't think the decision makers ever said it. Final Phase, a selling tactic, could go on for years. Just like life does.

One of the things we residents like to talk about is how long is the building going to go on. I have heard contractors opine, and many villagers, but where was it officially written, the build out year or goal, that you should feel so betrayed?

Think about the positives of continued growth. The teams of contractors still employed, taking care of their families and paying taxes, their children attending the charter schools.

Workers not on the welfare rolls.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

As long as they keep building sufficient golf courses, amenities, retail establishments and infrastructure, what's the difference?
The thing about the Villages is that each little area is separate in alot of of ways from the rest of the Villages. I live in Silver Lake and what happens down near Brownwood doesn't affect me. Heck, what happens south of 466 rarely affects me. I think that's the beauty of The Villages. It is a bunch of smaller villages all by a common theme but not really affecting each other very much.

Winston: Your post makes a lot of sense to me. Do you suppose thats why this place is called The Villages?

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by NJblue

Truth at the time?! Really? You are content making a life decision based on someone telling you something with his fingers crossed behind his back?

Based on your misreading of my previous analogy, either you don't read analogies well or I don't create them well, but let me try again. Continuing the romantic theme ... Suppose you called a restaurant for a reservation at a corner table with a great view and were assured by the manager that you could have it. However, when you arrived, you found that table occupied. If the manager said, "I told you could have it based on my understanding at the time that it would be available, hence it was the truth at the time. Since then someone came and offered me $25 to have that table." Would you just shrug and say, "Well at least it was the truth at the time" ?

Obviously, where the analogy falls short is that a table in a restaurant is not a life decision. But, it does illustrate the value of one's commitment to you.

I understood your analogy perfectly but I think it would be a more accurate analogy if you stated something like... my wife and I went to the public beach on the hottest day of the year and it was packed. The concession stands were humming with business and we were having a great time and then more people arrived and it ruined everything because my wife and I hate crowds.

I hope this doesn't worry you to much, NJ, and that you have a really good day. I'm going to try to do the same because when it comes down to it...the only moments we have in life are the ones we are currently in. Adieu.