Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

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  #1  
Old 04-16-2007, 03:21 PM
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Default Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

What are your thoughts about the shootings at Virginia Tech? It's hard to put into words. What is the cause of all this stuff?
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Old 04-16-2007, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

So sad, all those young people dead..Who can figure why things happen..All you see on TV is violence..Years ago the TV shows were great, not today..Maybe this is where these young people are getting it from..Who knows...
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Old 04-16-2007, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

> :'( :verymad:There is absolutely no question that the primary reason for this type of action is the permissive society and the liberal attitudes coming from within the educational community and is likely to continue until a stand is taken that does not demand we always act in the most "political correct" manner and just apply good judgement and the Golden Rule instead.
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

There are individuals in every society that are mentally disturbed to varying degrees. It's an unavoidable fact of life. The cause of their illness could be rooted (and it is an illness) could be traced to a number of sources such as organicaly based psychotic disorders (dementia, schizophrenia, brain tumor, bipolar syndrome, paranoia etc.). Perhaps it was drug/alcohol abuse. Who knows? Whatever. But I don't think that societal changes are the root cause. Societal pressures are a factor to be sure. But advancing that hypothesis and concluding that increased violence on TV or cinema or society is a major if not the single factor isn't logical. That hypothesis is disproven by the fact that we are all exposed to violence in the media and we're not out there gunning-down innocents. The fact that we live in a free society is not the cause of this horror either. We don't know all the facts in this particular case.....but I read that the shooter was an English major, a senior, who's writings were alarming enough to prompt at least one professor to recommended counseling for shooter. I feel reasonably certain that Cho Seung-Hui's classmates are exposed to the same violence in the media.....why aren't they shooting innocent people? There are usually signs (some subtle and some not so subtle) manifested by the mentally ill or emotionally disturbed that are observable as evidenced by the notation of at least one professor. Perhaps this could have been prevented if serious attention were given to the signs and swift and severe action were taken. We live in a free society and that, admitedly, has consequences. We are all ultimately responsible for protecting ourselves. So what's a potential solution? Huh? Gun control advocates are going to have a feeding frenzy with this one. A single sane armed student with a good eye and a steady hand (and a carry permit) could have done something. But no. A no-gun-on-campus policy at VT precluded that. The reality is, gun control sealed their doom. I'm angry too. I'm angry that the dead students were penned up like sheep for the slaughter in a dumb "gun-free-zone". A better way to describe the situation is a "self-defense-free-zone" or a "danger-free-zone" for the criminally insane. Here's a question for the group. If you were in a classroom with Cho Seung-Hui forcing his way through the door with the obvious intention of pumping a few rounds into you or your mates, would you want a gun or not? Right. I thought so. The can-o-worms is open in the TOTV forum. Gotcha riled-up? Opinions folks?
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

:Yes!!! I would want a gun, and as you put it, not stand like a sheep going to slaughter..You are so right but what is going to become of this society if we are all armed and ready for action...The Wild West!! I agree 100% if a student had a gun and was alert these other students would not be dead now..

Where do we draw the line?? How many more innocent people are going to be killed?? :dontknow:

I wish I had the answers..I don't think anyone at this point has the answers..These killings are perplexing, after the fact we always find out there were obvious signs that were not acted upon.. >
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

I've been thinking a about this....in a religious philosophical sense. There are those that believe in good and evil......heaven and hell. There are those that believe in reincarnation and Karma. There are those that are agnostic (neither believing or disbelieving in the existence of God). And there are athiests and a whole spectrum of other religious/philosophical belief systems. My question is this: if you believe in an after-life and if Cho Seung-Hui had a mental illness....no different than say....a cancer....what now is the eternal fate of Cho Seung-Hui?
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

Well, let me say the best I know how..Being a Catholic and knowing Our Lord is all forgiving, I guess if he was truly sorry for his sins, he would have to serve some form of penance and then be forgiven..It's a tough question..What are your thoughts Johnz ???
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Old 04-22-2007, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

I'm a Catholic too. Parochial grade school (St. Patrick's) and university (St. John's). Having studied the Old and New Testiment and comparative theology, I have some qualms with some of the basic tenets held by the Church. Penance and forgiveness of sins is for the living. A contrite penitant professes sorrow for sins in life while still alive (confession and Act of Contrition). Not discounting the murders he committed, suicide is a mortal sin according to the Catholic Church. How could Seung-Hui be penitant in the act of suicide? If he really was a tortured soul suffering from an illness....is it still a sin? A deep question and perhaps a conundrum. Thought provoking huh?
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Old 04-22-2007, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

Didn't he compare himself to Jesus at some point? I really didn't pay close attention to his diatribe, as it made my skin crawl....

He thought of himself as a martyr..In his mind that was not suicide or a sin. it was because of "THEM"..They caused him to do what he did, he tried to avoid it..

you said that penance and and forgivemess of sin is for the living..I disagree..The souls in Purgatory must do their penance in Purgatory for their sins..If they are truly sorry, and The Lord sees fit, they then enter into eternal life in Heaven..Isn't that what we were taught??

Grade school(St Louis Academy)
St.John's University..Staten Island, N.Y. :bigthumbsup:
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

The St. John's I went to is in Jamaica, NY''...at the intersection of Grand Central and Utopia Parkways. My catechism instruction dictated that penance is for the living. I was taught that the relagation of a soul to purgatory is the result of a judgement by God and not the result of an individual choice by the penitant. The prayers of the living (among other things) helps to elevate souls from purgatory. There is a difference between penance and punishment. My original question asks about the eternal fate of Cho Seung-Hui.....given that he was mentally ill.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

I'm NOT Catholic but I am a faithful believer in God. I don't believe in a "Purgatory" and I don't believe that Cho is anywhere but Hell. God gives us free will and choices and this man made some really bad choices. Perhaps he was "mentally ill" in some sense of the word...but he had a lot of interveners who tried to help him and he chose to continue on in his own little twisted :verymad: world. You can't tell me he didn't know he had a problem in dealing with society!!!!!!! I can't begin to get into his head (or that of any other murderer) but I truly do NOT believe that God "lets" people commit these heinous crimes and then forgives them after they kill themselves and welcomes them with open arms into his heavenly glory. I mean ... GET SERIOUS what are you thinking? Catholic or not...it just doesn't work that way.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

Oh and as for the 2nd part of your question..."what is causing this"... Have you observed how people are raising (or NOT) their childen these days???? There is absolutely NO discipline by parents and heaven forbid that a school or educator should even speak harshly to little Jimmy or little Suzy...much less put a paddle to their behinds or send them to the principal's office where a call is made to home!!! Our society has become sooooo left wing and so liberal and we are destroying ourselves and our future generations. When I was in school we lived in mortal fear of some of the teachers, the principal...and then what would happen at home when our parents found out. I have observed parents trying to REASON with a screaming 3 year old in a grocery cart while the child is pummeling the parent!!! I heard a mother say to said out of control 3 year old, "...when we get home you will be setting in your time out chair..." TIME OUT CHAIR...are you serious???? I can tell you that NO child of mine would have even thought about carrying on in such a manner and neither would I as a child nor any of my siblings. We had respect for our parents and our elders and we were taught how to act and get along in a society. Then you have our judiciary system who also coddles these little tyrants and punishes anyone who tries to make a child behave in a civilized manner. While at a local restaurant last week, which was very crowded with people waiting to be seated, there was a young family with 4 children (ranging in age from 5 to maybe 12) and ALL of them stayed seated on the cushy bench while some very elderly and obvious physically impaired people tried to stand and wait on their canes and walkers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am serious!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was appalled that not only did the young parents remain seated and chatting with their friends but all of the children did the same. Was it not the parents responsibility to first of all set an example by standing up and offering their seats to the elderly and less able to stand AND was it not their responsibility to insist their children did the same and to even take them outside to explain WHY this was the right thing to do????? Behaviors are LEARNED. This murderer at Virginia Tech was not born to be a killer nor did he just wake up one morning and say, "I think I'll go kill some innocent people today" No...he LEARNED this behavior. I blame parents and our liberal society for the lack of caring people in the world today.
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Old 04-23-2007, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

Let's consider the obvious logically. First, no one on earth will ever know the spiritual fate of Cho Seung-Hui. No one. If you're spiritual and believe he will be eternally punished, that's ok, but you/we will never know. His extinguishment my simply be oblivion with no after-life...... that may even be hell in and of itself. Next, I don't think murder is a behavior that is learned. If it is, then I, for one, would like to know who the instructors are. Are all the muderers now in prison there because of their parents? We may be able to blame somethings on our parents.....but not everything.....and certainly not in Cho Seung-Hui's case (IMHO). Insanity/delusion/schizophrenia is what it is and nothing else.......can parents be blamed for mental illness......hmmmm.....maybe in a genetic sense....but even that hasn't been proven. The crazies walk among us and occassionally they reveal themselves. They will always walk among us just as they walk among us here in The Villages and on college campuses (campi?)...and everywhere else. Some stats indicate the one in ten of us have some sort of mental disorder.....I think that's a little high but a visit to New York City or LA might be convincing. And as we age, dementia isn't all that uncommon. Bad parenting my be the root cause of rude and obnoxious kids and thence rude and obnoxious adults. But not murderers. Finally, there are those of us who were raised by strict parents who did a fairly good job instilling proper and courteous behaviors......and some of these folks (our age) are often rude and obnoxious. Go figure that one out.
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

Johnz wrote~~~Finally, there are those of us who were raised by strict parents who did a fairly good job instilling proper and courteous behaviors......and some of these folks (our age) are often rude and obnoxious. Go figure that one out....Amen...
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Virginia Tech shootings. What is causing this stuff?

Yea...WHATEVER!!! :
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