[CFrance]

Originally Posted by DougB

Apparently so, say 7 Hail Marys and 8 Lord's Prayers and you will be forgiven.

[delima2000]

We have two oaks in our yard one in front and one in back. They are the nastiest trees around. Always raking and cleaning up the crap that they leave on the walkways,driveways and patio. We bought our house because there was shade and the trees looked nice but after living here for three years we are about ready to look for another house. My backyard had beautiful grass and now it is bare,my front yard is getting that way too. The oaks in Michigan were a better tree. I wish we could take the trees down and plant another type of tree but not a palm.

[Bonny]

Originally Posted by tuctba

My neighbor in Belvedere paid a 10,000 lot premium because of a large live oak. Hurricane winds came through in October 2004 part of the tree fell on the house. Cost 6,000 to remove the tree. Spent a total of 16,000........OUCH!!!

I paid $10,000 for my lot in the same area and I didn't have a live oak. Why would that raise the price of the lot ? Just wondering where you heard that was the reason for the lot price.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast

Regarding the two phrases highlighted in red above:

1. Obviously you haven't lived with one of these florida oaks shading your driveway, yard and/or house. Contrary to your phrase implying these florida oaks drop leaves only in the fall, their leaves and gazzilions of tiny acorns that rot quickly do not "fall in the fall". They fall for 7-8 months, from about July thru March!!

Unless you sweep and wash the driveway and sidewalk up to the front door every day, all the black/brown filth and rot from the leaves, tiny sticks and acorns get walked into the house or garage on shoe soles, and not everybody (especially seniors with physical problems) wants to go thru removing their shoes every time they walk into the house or garage. It is a constant mess to clean up to not have it tracked in and dirty or stain the rugs and floors.

2. "Many residents have moved here from the north and west" and came specifically to enjoy greenery all year long, instead of everything looking dead and naked from Sept. thru April. Palms are a daily reminder that we're not living in the cold, grey, frozen, dead-looking north as we did for decades since birth. The graceful, whispering palms outside are a joy to look at and they're what I "write home about" most.

Originally Posted by Bonny

Not too mention that stuff all over the car for those that have a car in the driveway, all over the roof & in the eaves !!! Even if you put screening on the eaves, it still all has to be cleaned off. Too much like work.

Live oaks should not be planted close to a driveway so why would you compare planting one in the same breath as planting one to shade a house??? If you plant it by your driveway, you deserve any staining you get. In all the years I have lived in Florida, I always had at least one live oak. They are magnificent trees! Your exaggerations of their leaves and acorns and of "seniors with physical problems" (where did that come from??!?) tracking dirt into their house is laughable.

It's funny, but palms do not remind anyone of what you are trying to describe when the temperature is in the 30s and 40s. By the way, you also get the exact same staining from palm seeds.

I really don't believe that people have moved to The Villages "specifically to enjoy greenery all year long," when you obviously are referring to oak trees shedding their leaves. That's a little dramatic particularly when practically all plants and shrubs are green all year long, as are many grasses.

Bonny: "Screening on the eaves"? Not sure what you mean by that. I've never seen screening on the eaves of houses.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by DougB

Have no idea why someone would be worried or even care what kind of tree someone plants in their own yard.

Originally Posted by TNLAKEPANDA

I couldn't agree more! It's your yard plant what you like and enjoy it! Everyone else

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

In 20 years the little 5,000 sq.ft. lot and home will be overwhelmed by the giant beautiful oak. This will also greatly effect the neighbor. Love those trees just not in a small yard.

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

It does get kind of silly........................

People do need to care about what they plant and where they plant it. Unfortunately, most people here either do not care or do not understand about the particular tree they plant. Most people also want "instant results" and consequently, many trees, shrubs and plants are over planted, planted too close to a house, etc.

Yes -- we really do need to care and be considerate of what we plant and where we plant it because for the most part, our lots are the size of a postage stamp!

[Bonny]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

Live oaks should not be planted close to a driveway so why would you compare planting one in the same breath as planting one to shade a house??? If you plant it by your driveway, you deserve any staining you get. In all the years I have lived in Florida, I always had at least one live oak. They are magnificent trees! Your exaggerations of their leaves and acorns and of "seniors with physical problems" (where did that come from??!?) tracking dirt into their house is laughable.

It's funny, but palms do not remind anyone of what you are trying to describe when the temperature is in the 30s and 40s. By the way, you also get the exact same staining from palm seeds.

I really don't believe that people have moved to The Villages "specifically to enjoy greenery all year long," when you obviously are referring to oak trees shedding their leaves. That's a little dramatic particularly when practically all plants and shrubs are green all year long, as are many grasses.

Bonny: "Screening on the eaves"? Not sure what you mean by that. I've never seen screening on the eaves of houses.

Duh, don't know what I was thinking. I meant gutters !!

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by CFrance

A question to the master gardeners among you: Is it a "sin" to plant a non native plant in an area if it is in its proper climate designation?

If it's a sin, there's going to be a huge number of Villages residents in the penalty box with me!

[Serenoa]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

It's funny, but palms do not remind anyone of what you are trying to describe when the temperature is in the 30s and 40s.

I think it's hilarious how someone could they know what feeling I get when I look out my windows (regardless of what the outdoor temp may be) & see beautiful green palms in my yard, even way up here in Birmingham, AL.
I mean c'mon, seriously?

[downeaster]

Originally Posted by Halibut;982767[B

]Do palms count as trees under the covenant rule against removing any with trunks 4" or more?[/B]

Palms or not, I'd like to see a change in the deed restrictions to allow more xeriscaping and even complete grass removal. I'll grant that lawns look "nicer" than rock gardens, but given the financial and environmental costs of watering, it might be worth considering. Also seems like a heck of a lot of retirees would be just as happy never to bother with yardwork again, me included.

Interesting question. The closest I can come up with as an answer:

Definition

Although "tree" is a term of common parlance, there is no universally recognised precise definition of what a tree is, either botanically or in common language.[1] In its broadest sense, a tree is any plant with the general form of an elongated stem, or trunk, which supports the photosynthetic leaves or branches at some distance above the ground.[2] Trees are also typically defined by height,[3] with smaller plants from 0.5 to 10 m (1.6 to 32.8 ft) being called shrubs,[4] so the minimum height of a tree is only loosely defined.[3] Large herbaceous plants such as papaya and bananas are trees in this broad sense.[1][5]
A commonly applied narrower definition is that a tree has a woody trunk formed by secondary growth, meaning that the trunk thickens each year by growing outwards, in addition to the primary upwards growth from the growing tip.[3][6] Under such a definition, herbaceous plants such as palms, bananas and papayas are not considered trees regardless of their height, growth form or stem girth. Certain monocots may be considered trees under a slightly looser definition;[7] while the Joshua tree, bamboos and palms do not have secondary growth and never produce true wood with growth rings,[8][9] they may produce "pseudo-wood" by lignifying cells formed by primary growth.[10]
Aside from structural definitions, trees are commonly defined by use, for instance as those plants which yield lumber.[11]

[Halibut]

Thanks, downeaster. We had a large palm taken out because our neighbor was complaining that the fronds brushed their roof, but it never occurred to us that the thing was a "tree" and didn't ask anyone's permission.

Also ... one day afterwards I saw our neighbor stride angrily out of the house wearing her bathrobe and come around the corner to catch the palm in action as it was making the noise that kept her and her husband up all night. She was quite startled to see that it was gone. I was quite mirthful at her expression.

Personally, I think it's squirrels on their roof.

[cattywampus]

.
Have learned that I would NEVER have another Live Oak.

Never ill until moved to The Villages.
After over $3800
paid to Docs and many Allergy tests, found am EXTREMELY
allergic to Spanish Moss growing on Live Oak Trees.

The Villages (?) would not permit REMOVAL the Live Oak
because it had over 4 inch diameter trunk.

Our street now pays to have
that NASTY Spanish Moss removed every year.
I was not the only one allergic to Spanish Moss.

BONUS....
The Live Oaks attract SQUIRRELS. To get the Acorns.
...............Squirrels climb on Lanai and birdcage screens and tear the screens....
.so far just $ 2100 to replace screens ...at just one house.

ADDED BONUS...
The squirrels sharpen their teeth on the lead flashing
protecting your vent stacks on your roof. This causes leaks in your roof.

The leaks follow your trusses to
your ceilings. Soon you discover your ceiling is discolored from the leak.
After more than $ 2000. for repairs to ceilings and more than $1200
in mold remediation in the attic.....

BONUS #3
....next door neighbors Live Oak was planted
by The Villages landscape contractor DIRECTLY ABOVE the sewer pipe.
They had a major sewerage backups in 2 bathrooms.
This due to the Live Oak roots infiltrating
their sewer pipe to the street.
The repair costs EXCEEDED $ 10 GRAND.
This repaired the pipes and replaced tile and some furniture.

Nobody will ever convince me that Live Oaks are nice to have.

I NEVER want a home with or near a Live Oak--

[yabbadu]

Originally Posted by joldnol

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. Leave the oaks on your property.....you be grateful in ten years. The bio diversity of your neighborhood will thank you too.

A humble Villager and native Floridian

Don't want to rake anymore!

[dbussone]

Catty - you have hit all the appropriate reasons. We got rid of our live oaks at 3". Go palms!

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by delima2000

We have two oaks in our yard one in front and one in back. They are the nastiest trees around. Always raking and cleaning up the crap that they leave on the walkways,driveways and patio. We bought our house because there was shade and the trees looked nice but after living here for three years we are about ready to look for another house. My backyard had beautiful grass and now it is bare,my front yard is getting that way too. The oaks in Michigan were a better tree. I wish we could take the trees down and plant another type of tree but not a palm.

Instead of complaining about the lack of grass under your oaks, take advantage of the shade they provide and plant shade-loving things underneath them.

If they are that close to your driveway, obviously, they weren't planted in the correct place. You might get an arborist to trim them properly, also, but not some unknowing lawn maintenance person who doesn't know what he's doing and hacks the tree to death.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by Bonny

Duh, don't know what I was thinking. I meant gutters !!

Ah-ha! Now I get it. I'm laughing as you probably were, too!