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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Where is our vaccine??? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/where-our-vaccine-314456/)

Luisa 01-01-2021 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1880151)
This criticism might be a bit harsh. From the CDC link that was provided it is possible to find the ACIP recommendations and in particular the evidence table for allocations where the following two statements can be found.

In the Ethics section for essential workers:
Mitigate health inequities: COVID-19 vaccination helps to address the disproportionate burden of COVID-19 among some racial and ethnic minorities who are overrepresented in subsets of essential workers.
In the Ethics section for persons over 65 years:
Mitigate health inequities: Although racial and ethnic minority groups are underrepresented among persons >65 years,
While the ACIP certainly didn't say "old people are too white," the racial makeup of the different groups clearly was part of the consideration.
Systemic racism does exist, just not where the media would like you to think.

Bucco 01-01-2021 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisa (Post 1880639)
My words exactly.
Fifty different states, with varying budgets, distributing an amount of doses that has a quantity that has shrunk terribly since the fall, with fifty different plans sounds like a recipe for disaster.

coffeebean 01-01-2021 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVES (Post 1880573)
Some people just seem to need to complain. Anything productive about it? NOPE.
Complain? Where was this poster complaining? Discussing is more like it, but not complaining. Vaccine distribution is a huge topic to discuss so I welcome the discussion.

coffeebean 01-01-2021 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisa (Post 1880663)
Why are poc more likely to get COVID or more serious cases? How about taking more personal responsibility for social distancing, life style, eating habits.
I believe it all comes down to the quality and frequency of health care. Think about it.

billethkid 01-01-2021 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1880672)
Complain? Where was this poster complaining? Discussing is more like it, but not complaining. Vaccine distribution is a huge topic to discuss so I welcome the discussion.
For many, ANY disagreeing or offering a differing opinion or not going along with the agenda are all components warranting the label of complaining.

Dana1963 01-01-2021 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1879671)
OK, I wasn't sure about the time between doses but I was evidently wrong.

I just read an interesting article. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommended that senior citizens be moved toward the back of the line because racial and ethnic minorities are under-represented in this group. In other words, seniors are too white.

I wonder if this is why places like Orlando are getting the virus first.
We have a better chance of gaining herd immunity in Florida than receiving a vaccination. Seems like that was the plan all along.

Pairadocs 01-01-2021 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1879671)
OK, I wasn't sure about the time between doses but I was evidently wrong.

I just read an interesting article. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has recommended that senior citizens be moved toward the back of the line because racial and ethnic minorities are under-represented in this group. In other words, seniors are too white.

I wonder if this is why places like Orlando are getting the virus first.
I've heard that on two different cable channels now (surprised) in addition to FOX of course, and read two print articles stating the same. One article wisely brought out that the taboos surrounding the virus (ties to weight, ethnic characteristics, etc., while politically correct, are actually adding to the sickness and death rates by arbitrarily deciding which "per-existing" can be discussed publicly and which can not (for fear of outrage and economic backlash, or "cancelling") One puzzling example they gave was some conditions like heart disease and diabetes can be discussed/advertised, while other proven risk ties such as over weight and ethnic composition, and others are not to be mentioned (but are certainly available to those few who care to spend the time finding medical journal research and stats not on the evening news) due to their "sensitive" nature. It's an interesting observation of our culture, that we are selective about which and how much information we disburse to the masses, and the ethical (?) base we use to make decisions along those lines. Just an interesting observation on our culture.

Bucco 01-01-2021 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana1963 (Post 1880690)
We have a better chance of gaining herd immunity in Florida than receiving a vaccination. Seems like that was the plan all along.
I do not believe there was a plan, except to dump it all in the hands of individual states, let them make rules and administer it all logistically.

That does not sound like a "plan" to me, but again....a recipe to insure that backbiting, racial unrest, etc., exceeds the clamor for a plan to administer the largest vaccine program as of yet.

Add to that plan that we knew months ago what was going to happen and when....yet....the money to help was just signed a few days ago.

claricecolin 01-01-2021 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisa (Post 1880663)
Why are poc more likely to get COVID or more serious cases? How about taking more personal responsibility for social distancing, life style, eating habits.
It is more than that. POC are more likely to live in multi generational households, work in more frontline positions. Meaning jobs where you cannot work from home leading to more exposure even if you are doing everything else correctly.

Bucco 01-01-2021 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by claricecolin (Post 1880772)
It is more than that. POC are more likely to live in multi generational households, work in more frontline positions. Meaning jobs where you cannot work from home leading to more exposure even if you are doing everything else correctly.
I am afraid that your true and logical (and oft stated) fact will fall on deaf ears.

tvbound 01-01-2021 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by claricecolin (Post 1880772)
It is more than that. POC are more likely to live in multi generational households, work in more frontline positions. Meaning jobs where you cannot work from home leading to more exposure even if you are doing everything else correctly.
None of those common sense and truthful explanations, will mean anything to those who are predisposed to prejudice. I applaud you for trying though.

John41 01-01-2021 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1880701)
I do not believe there was a plan, except to dump it all in the hands of individual states, let them make rules and administer it all logistically.

That does not sound like a "plan" to me, but again....a recipe to insure that backbiting, racial unrest, etc., exceeds the clamor for a plan to administer the largest vaccine program as of yet.

Add to that plan that we knew months ago what was going to happen and when....yet....the money to help was just signed a few days ago.
The states insisted on being in charge and Gov Cumo had a hissy fit when it was suggested the Feds might do the planning.

billethkid 01-02-2021 08:12 AM
Fear not.

All will be well.....soon.

Bjeanj 01-02-2021 08:22 AM
My sister sent me this article. I guess DeSantis is getting wide attention for his handling of the vaccine distribution. I guess you’ll have to do a search for “the villages” on the site due to the headline.

https://www.thedailybeast.com

Aloha1 01-02-2021 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1880358)
And tomorrow yours will be too.
Today is 1/2 and my post is still accurate.

Bonnevie 01-02-2021 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John41 (Post 1880851)
The states insisted on being in charge and Gov Cumo had a hissy fit when it was suggested the Feds might do the planning.
could you provide your source for this? I was unable to find it anywhere. Some of the states, such as NY, were going to review the safety data independently of the FDA. Given that the FDA gave authorization for unproven medications such as hydroxychloroquine, that was being prudent.

biker1 01-02-2021 10:14 AM
In reality, the FDA revoked the EUA for hydroxychloroquine back in the summer when a clinical trial was unavailable. It is completely understandable why it was initially being used "off label". There were a couple of small studies that showed some success and the drug has been in use for a considerable amount of time as a treatment for malaria. Cuomo saying that NY had to review the data on the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was absurd, to say the least. Political nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnevie (Post 1881073)
could you provide your source for this? I was unable to find it anywhere. Some of the states, such as NY, were going to review the safety data independently of the FDA. Given that the FDA gave authorization for unproven medications such as hydroxychloroquine, that was being prudent.

Bucco 01-02-2021 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John41 (Post 1880851)
The states insisted on being in charge and Gov Cumo had a hissy fit when it was suggested the Feds might do the planning.
Actually, what you are posting is not true.

Gov Cuomo was reluctant to trust the vaccine itself based on the track record, but the distribution which is the subject of this thread was never anything but given to the states.

In fact, most time the state and local government do step up and handle, but this is, or could be, the largest vaccine attempt ever. They did not, nor are they getting any blue print to follow from federal, along with no money until about a week ago.

Asking quite a bit of local and state governments that are already pushed to the brink, simply trying to save live of those already infected.

In order to fulfill what everyone has a goal, we need something of push with the process of delivering the vaccine and administering it.

Right now, there is no place where the "buck" stops, so we appear to be floating

Bogie Shooter 01-02-2021 11:14 AM
When reading these posts, why do I feel I have heard all this before? Some folks just continue to sing from their own hymn book.......over and over again..

Bucco 01-02-2021 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1881155)
When reading these posts, why do I feel I have heard all this before? Some folks just continue to sing from their own hymn book.......over and over again..
TRUE, and i feel reluctant to even post, but some just continue to spread lies and untruths, based on what I do not know nor do I understand why.

I find myself only posting to correct blatant lies being told because that is not fair to the Talk of The Villages forum, its readers and posters.

John41 01-02-2021 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnevie (Post 1881073)
could you provide your source for this? I was unable to find it anywhere. Some of the states, such as NY, were going to review the safety data independently of the FDA. Given that the FDA gave authorization for unproven medications such as hydroxychloroquine, that was being prudent.
NY is where covid 19 infected patients were sent to nursing homes and hundreds of nursing home residents died. There was a CNN reporter who had an emotional story on how she held Gov Cumo responsible for a relatives death. So you think the NY health deoartment is competent to evaluate anything.

Bucco 01-02-2021 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John41 (Post 1881178)
NY is where covid 19 infected patients were sent to nursing homes and hundreds of nursing home residents died. There was a CNN reporter who had an emotional story on how she held Gov Cumo responsible for a relatives death. So you think the NY health deoartment is competent to evaluate anything.
The thread is about the distribution and administering of the vaccine...

.....States did not ask to be "in charge". It is a role that is normally theirs, for sure, but to say "The states insisted on being in charge" is just not true at all.

.....Federal government decided to make it the responsibility of the states instead of simply taking charge.

Yorkshire 01-02-2021 11:55 AM
I think the original development was done by a German company Biontech

Advogado 01-02-2021 01:05 PM
A partial answer to the question, "Where is our vaccine?" is: At least some of it is in the arms of the Developer's cronies.

Allowing those cronies to cut in line ahead of health-care workers and nursing-home patients was reprehensible, and it may result in the death of some of the high-risk individuals whose doses were, in effect, stolen.

John41 01-02-2021 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1881191)
The thread is about the distribution and administering of the vaccine...

.....States did not ask to be "in charge". It is a role that is normally theirs, for sure, but to say "The states insisted on being in charge" is just not true at all.

.....Federal government decided to make it the responsibility of the states instead of simply taking charge.
Here is the federal governments plan to help the states distribute the vaccine which many in the media said was impossible to develop in a year. So it is a falsehood to say the federal government dumped it on the states.
______________________________

tember 18, 2020 -- The federal government has released information about how it plans to distribute a COVID-19 vaccine once it’s approved by the FDA.

During a Wednesday news briefing, federal officials said they hope to make the vaccine free of charge and available within 24 hours of approval. Health care workers and other essential workers will probably be the first to get the vaccine, which will initially be released in small quantities.

But they admitted many questions remain about the vaccine -- such as which ones will be approved.

"We're dealing in a world of great uncertainty," Paul Mango, deputy chief of staff for policy at the Department of Health Human Services, said, according to CNN. "We don't know the timing of when we'll have a vaccine. We don't know the quantities. We don't know the efficacy of those vaccines."

The administration has published two documents about vaccine distribution.

Health and Human Services posted an 11-page distribution strategy titled "From the Factory to the Frontlines: The Operation Warp Speed Strategy for Distributing a COVID-19 Vaccine."

The CDC posted the 57-page "COVID-19 Vaccination Program Interim Playbook for Jurisdiction Operations."

Love2Swim 01-02-2021 01:39 PM
The federal government had a plan, wherein they saw their role as getting the vaccine to the states, then letting the states get the vaccine to the people. What needed to happen was proper funding to the states to accomplish distribution of the vaccine. States don't have the resources or manpower to handle such a massive undertaking. And this is just another failure of the federal government that we have seen repeatedly for the last year, like lack of guidance and $$ for Covid testing, and the lack of personal and protective equipment for medical personnel. The feds should be working hand in hand with the states, to figure out what they need. Help out the overworked state Health Departments with logistics, with personnel from FEMA or the National Guard if needed. In January, there will be a change in federal leadership, and there has been action pledged. It can't come soon enough. Officials had promised 20 million vaccinated by the end of the year, yet less than 3 million have been vaccinated.

Joe V. 01-02-2021 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by love2swim (Post 1881241)
the federal government had a plan, wherein they saw their role as getting the vaccine to the states, then letting the states get the vaccine to the people. What needed to happen was proper funding to the states to accomplish distribution of the vaccine. States don't have the resources or manpower to handle such a massive undertaking. And this is just another failure of the federal government that we have seen repeatedly for the last year, like lack of guidance and $$ for covid testing, and the lack of personal and protective equipment for medical personnel. The feds should be working hand in hand with the states, to figure out what they need. Help out the overworked state health departments with logistics, with personnel from fema or the national guard if needed. In january, there will be a change in federal leadership, and there has been action pledged. It can't come soon enough. Officials had promised 20 million vaccinated by the end of the year, yet less than 3 million have been vaccinated.
xxx

Bucco 01-02-2021 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John41 (Post 1881232)
Here is the federal governments plan to help the states distribute the vaccine which many in the media said was impossible to develop in a year. So it is a falsehood to say the federal government dumped it on the states.
______________________________

tember 18, 2020 -- The federal government has released information about how it plans to distribute a COVID-19 vaccine once it’s approved by the FDA.

During a Wednesday news briefing, federal officials said they hope to make the vaccine free of charge and available within 24 hours of approval. Health care workers and other essential workers will probably be the first to get the vaccine, which will initially be released in small quantities.

But they admitted many questions remain about the vaccine -- such as which ones will be approved.

"We're dealing in a world of great uncertainty," Paul Mango, deputy chief of staff for policy at the Department of Health Human Services, said, according to CNN. "We don't know the timing of when we'll have a vaccine. We don't know the quantities. We don't know the efficacy of those vaccines."

The administration has published two documents about vaccine distribution.

Health and Human Services posted an 11-page distribution strategy titled "From the Factory to the Frontlines: The Operation Warp Speed Strategy for Distributing a COVID-19 Vaccine."

The CDC posted the 57-page "COVID-19 Vaccination Program Interim Playbook for Jurisdiction Operations."
Look...do not want to belabor the point.

My posts to you have been to correct your statements relative to all 50 states getting together and, as you said "insisting they be in charge". That did not happen, andvfrom memory, I recall some calls to use some provisions to enhance distribution.

They also, at least to my knowledge are not, as promised a number of times, using our military in the distribution.

Doesn't matter as long as it gets into the arms of our citizenry.

Keep in mind, resources are thin in local government right now, and the bill to help financially was not even approved a week ago.

Let's hope someone, somehow finds a way to pick up the pace

Love2Swim 01-02-2021 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2Swim (Post 1881241)
The federal government had a plan, wherein they saw their role as getting the vaccine to the states, then letting the states get the vaccine to the people. What needed to happen was proper funding to the states to accomplish distribution of the vaccine. States don't have the resources or manpower to handle such a massive undertaking. And this is just another failure of the federal government that we have seen repeatedly for the last year, like lack of guidance and $$ for Covid testing, and the lack of personal and protective equipment for medical personnel. The feds should be working hand in hand with the states, to figure out what they need. Help out the overworked state Health Departments with logistics, with personnel from FEMA or the National Guard if needed. In January, there will be a change in federal leadership, and there has been action pledged. It can't come soon enough. Officials had promised 20 million vaccinated by the end of the year, yet less than 3 million have been vaccinated.
And if that isn't bad enough, we have 70 and 80 year olds waiting in line for hours to get a vaccine, on a first come first served basis. That is just plain stupid.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr 01-02-2021 03:31 PM
The vaccine was released on Dec 18 and this original post was made on Dec 30.

Did anyone really expect 330 million doses to be distributed in 12 days?

Bill14564 01-02-2021 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1881282)
The vaccine was released on Dec 18 and this original post was made on Dec 30.

Did anyone really expect 330 million doses to be distributed in 12 days?
No, not 330 million. But we did hope for something closer to the 20 million number.

Bucco 01-02-2021 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1881291)
No, not 330 million. But we did hope for something closer to the 20 million number.
Actually, and who knows the accurate number....only a little over 12 million have even been delivered.

C. C. Rider 01-02-2021 10:26 PM
First, I have no idea who is to blame for not having more vaccine available sooner, so I'm not going to address that issue. I will simply offer an opinion on who I think should be allowed to get the vaccine first.

I realize that there are many factors that can make one person more vulnerable to the Coronavirus than another person, but it would be an impossible task to try to fairly rank all of the various factors that would make one person more vulnerable than another person.

For example, how would you decide whether heart problems, cancer, diabetes, obesity, race, age, kidney problems, or any of dozens of others factors would move a person to the front of the line? It would be impossible to rank all those factors and a nightmare to try to administer and control based on all these factors... not to mention that many people would get fake doctor's orders for some condition to try to get to the front of the line.

So, I think that a simple approach is the best and undoubtedly the easiest to implement and control... and that would be to base it on AGE only. They could do this by announcing that on the date of their first shipment, they would give the vaccine ONLY to people over the age of 85. If, after a couple of days the lines start to dwindle for people over the age of 85, then (assuming they still have vaccine available) lower the age to 82.

Then, after a few more days when the lines start to dwindle for those 82 and over, they could lower the age requirement to 80. Then just keep lowering the age every few days (or weeks) until everyone who wants a vaccine has received it. It would be the easiest way of determining who is eligible because all the patient would have to do is produce identification such as a valid Driver's License or something similar to confirm their age. No one would have a valid claim of being discriminated against because either you are old enough to qualify or you're not. How much money you have or who you know or what "condition" you claim to have would not enter into the picture. Either produce valid evidence of your qualifying age or Hit The Road Jack. No other excuse or alibi is going to move you to the front of the line.

Bonnevie 01-03-2021 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1881282)
The vaccine was released on Dec 18 and this original post was made on Dec 30.

Did anyone really expect 330 million doses to be distributed in 12 days?
no, of course not. but what I think would help is some semblance of a plan. this "roll out" looks like there is no thought behind it. it's about as effective as throwing paper towels at a crowd of people....

biker1 01-03-2021 10:46 AM
Since you aren't involved in the distribution plan you really don't know what you are talking about. Logistics is complicated. It is often those who know the least who are the most critical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnevie (Post 1881550)
no, of course not. but what I think would help is some semblance of a plan. this "roll out" looks like there is no thought behind it. it's about as effective as throwing paper towels at a crowd of people....

Lottoguy 01-03-2021 11:13 AM
It's the older folks who are overloading the hospitals. This is what their trying to prevent.

Topspinmo 01-03-2021 01:33 PM
Just cause you get vaccine don’t mean you are automatically revert back to normal? There is too much unknown about virus and the vaccine.

Even After Getting Vaccinated, You Could Still Infect Others | FiveThirtyEight

stanley 01-03-2021 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 1881863)
Just cause you get vaccine don’t mean you are automatically revert back to normal? There is too much unknown about virus and the vaccine.

Even After Getting Vaccinated, You Could Still Infect Others | FiveThirtyEight

Rebukes in 4......3.....2....1...

Carla B 01-03-2021 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. C. Rider (Post 1881409)
First, I have no idea who is to blame for not having more vaccine available sooner, so I'm not going to address that issue. I will simply offer an opinion on who I think should be allowed to get the vaccine first.

I realize that there are many factors that can make one person more vulnerable to the Coronavirus than another person, but it would be an impossible task to try to fairly rank all of the various factors that would make one person more vulnerable than another person.

For example, how would you decide whether heart problems, cancer, diabetes, obesity, race, age, kidney problems, or any of dozens of others factors would move a person to the front of the line? It would be impossible to rank all those factors and a nightmare to try to administer and control based on all these factors... not to mention that many people would get fake doctor's orders for some condition to try to get to the front of the line.



So, I think that a simple approach is the best and undoubtedly the easiest to implement and control... and that would be to base it on AGE only. They could do this by announcing that on the date of their first shipment, they would give the vaccine ONLY to people over the age of 85. If, after a couple of days the lines start to dwindle for people over the age of 85, then (assuming they still have vaccine available) lower the age to 82.

Then, after a few more days when the lines start to dwindle for those 82 and over, they could lower the age requirement to 80. Then just keep lowering the age every few days (or weeks) until everyone who wants a vaccine has received it. It would be the easiest way of determining who is eligible because all the patient would have to do is produce identification such as a valid Driver's License or something similar to confirm their age. No one would have a valid claim of being discriminated against because either you are old enough to qualify or you're not. How much money you have or who you know or what "condition" you claim to have would not enter into the picture. Either produce valid evidence of your qualifying age or Hit The Road Jack. No other excuse or alibi is going to move you to the front of the line.
I think your idea has a lot of merit. How does Sumter County, with a small initial supply of 2500 doses, hope to avoid chaos by merely providing a phone number to call. It will be interesting to see how that goes this coming week.

John41 01-03-2021 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1881335)
Actually, and who knows the accurate number....only a little over 12 million have even been delivered.
This is a vaccine the media and their "experts" said would be a miracle to get by the end of 2020. Here is the miracle and you are still providing false information to TOTV. FYI the new surgeon general who will be in charge
next year already said he cannot meet the Operation Warp Speed vaccine distribution schedule. Failure before even trying. I would give you the quote but you choose to ignore facts. Here is what one state had to say about federal pandemic help.
-------------------------------
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is never shy to point out that President Donald Trump attacks him more than any other governor in America.

But on Monday, Cuomo took to an unlikely venue -- The Howard Stern Show -- to offer genuine praise for the president's response to the coronavirus in his home state.

"He has delivered for New York. He has," Cuomo said of Trump, in response to a question from Stern about whether the president has really done anything of consequence to help.

"By and large it has worked," Cuomo said of the relationship.


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