Absolutely correct. Like every big venture there are bugs that need to be worked out. New computer systems, automobiles all have some initial issues. The malcontents who think vaccine distribution will get better this year should realize the new surgeon general already said he cannot meet the Operation Warp Speed vaccine distribution schedule. He admits failure without even trying.

Dont get your hopes up too high. The new surgeon general already admits he cant meet the Operation Warp Speed vaccine distribution schedule. He admits failure before even trying.

Here is what one state had to say about federal cooperation on the pandemic
----------------'------'---
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is never shy to point out that President Donald Trump attacks him more than any other governor in America.

But on Monday, Cuomo took to an unlikely venue -- The Howard Stern Show -- to offer genuine praise for the president's response to the coronavirus in his home state.

"He has delivered for New York. He has," Cuomo said of Trump, in response to a question from Stern about whether the president has really done anything of consequence to help.

"By and large it has worked," Cuomo said of the relationship.

When shown facts that you are wrong you do not want to belabor the point. You said the government had no distribution plan and I showed you that plan.

Well doctor hawker proctor, do tell and reference the good news? :popcorn:

Meanwhile, wear your mask.

I don't understand... and I think you misunderstood. I was expecting some rebuke of the facts you presented in this link;

Even After Getting Vaccinated, You Could Still Infect Others | FiveThirtyEight

Seems loads of people here think the vaccine is the end all..it's not.

And I will add this;

COVID-19 Vaccine Talking Points from Weston A. Price Foundation -

We currently have no problem with vaccine distribution. We have a problem with getting needles in arms. Regardless, the current Surgeon General is not in charge of either component, and the new Surgeon General won't be either. The new Surgeon General was asked his opinion on how fast vaccinations would happen, and he estimated most Americans would be vaccinated by Summer 2021. If the new guys pull this off given the botched roll-out, it will hardly be "failure before trying."

Please, If you "state" them make sure they are in the right "state". :ohdear:

For the Moderna vaccines, the two doses are given 4 weeks apart. For Pfizer's vaccine, the two doses are given 3 weeks apart.

COVID-19 Vaccines 101: FAQ

Actually there is such a tool available which is used by the VA. This tool called the Care Assessment Needs or CAN tool that was established in 2013 when the PACT model of care was being rolled out with the goal to better manage chronic diseases and provide earlier intervention to reduce rehospitalizations. This tool compiles multifaceted patient data which generates a score that identify patients who statistically are at the highest risk for hospitalization and mortality. So for example, an 85 year old with few if any chronic diseases, minimal if any hospitalizations, and lives in a single family dwelling will generate a lower CAN score than a 65 year old who lives in a communal living environment such as a nursing home and has multiple chronic diseases that resulted in frequent hospitalizations. Being a VA primary care R.N. I use the CAN tool daily to identify patients that I need to outreach frequently to assess for evolving status changes so that early interventions can be implemented to avoid further status decline.

Not sure if the VA will be using the entire CAN score to determine which patients will be 1st offered Covid vaccines. But I am pretty certain that those Vets residing in communal living situations such as nursing homes and Vets living in group homes and shelters regardless of age and health statue will be offered 1st and encouraged to receive Covid vaccines because due to their communal living situations they are at a very high risk for Covid contraction and spreading it to others they live with communally.

The vaccine was approved on Dec 18. Did anyone expect the entire country to be vaccinated in 16 days?

I don't know how many doses they can produce in a day but it's going to take a while to produce 330 million. Then they have to produce another 330 million. Then there is the issue with this product having to be stored at -95 degrees. Transportation and distribution are going to take a while.

We're only 16 days out people.

Anyone have any luck getting a vaccination scheduled in Sumter county today?

I replied to something similar a day or so ago, but here goes again:

- There were going to be 100M doses available in December
- Or maybe only 50M due to production problems
- But only 25M be administered with the other half held for the 2nd dose
- But they were only able to ship about 20M
- Or maybe they only shipped 12M
- And the best information we have heard is about 2.1M doses went into arms.

So no, 330M in 14 days was always unachievable and never proposed or expected but we were promised something significantly more than 2.1M actually given.

The Administration put Vaccinations off to the states some Governors put it off to the counties. There are very few doses for mass inoculations. Operation Warp Speed was a catchy name for development but it seems we are at Operation Snail Pace now.

Just for context.....Cuomo comments were made in APRIL

Ok so there has been a glitch. I'm sure that things will get better as the people do it more. There is always a learning curve. But even if 12 or 20 million doses were given we still might not have them here. People just need to be patient. It may be another few weeks or months before you get yours.

Nobody expected the entire country to be vaccinated in 2 weeks but some folks who are supposed to actually know said 20,000,000 will and now are playing the semantics game with "we never said shots given we said shots DELIVERED" ....... to the states who have very little physical resources (PEOPLE) to give the shots. Also, only the Pfizer requires -95 degrees, the Moderna can go into a regular freezer.


But yes, it's gonna take a LONG time as it is a major rollout. We have to be patient but publicly promoted expectations need to be REALISTIC.

Yeah, but the population of veterans receiving care in VA facilities is a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions of people in the US who all want to be vaccinated RIGHT NOW! How do you propose that all the information be obtained and input into computers for every one of these hundreds of millions of people in the next week or so?

Also, since everyone has their own reasons or agenda as to why they should be first in line, it's unlikely that they would go along with a system such as the VA uses unless it put THEM first in line. That's just the way people are today.

Veterans, OTOH, are pretty much accustomed to being viewed as just one of huge group whose individual needs are subordinated to the overall group mission. The general public today has no such view of things and is unlikely to agree to ANY rating policy that doesn't put THEM first in line.

That's why I think the AGE ONLY method of determining priority is the best, easiest, and quickest to implement and use. Anything other than that is going to result in constant conflict and disagreement over whose condition warrants more consideration than someone else's condition.

Ha! What a joke. Sumter Health uses it's main number for people to call , including health
care workers, and guess what? System overload. Line has been instantly busy sine 7:55 AM. Hope no one has a legit reason to all for anything else.

Seriously?? Why are you still living in TV if you are so unhappy and prone to
conspiracy theories?

Actually it is the states that have the resources to give the shots. Do you think doctors and nurses from Washington DC are going to come to the states? You are asking for accuracy in vaccination forecasts that is not possible at the start of a major program.

It's ok, the poster is expressing his disappointment that he isn't one of the cronies. If he was I suspect he would have been up there. Another perspective, we need somewhere around 130,000 doses to get everyone in Sumter their first shot, then another 130,000 doses for the second shot. The 5 or so doses that were given is the proverbial drop in the bucket. This will take a long time, take a breath and keep masking, spacing and washing let's help each other until we can get the vaccine.

I finally got through and was told all appointments have been filled for now and to call back later in the week to try to make an appointment. I admit that a system that utilizes appointments is much better than first come first served that we have seen results in long lines of people waiting for hours to get vaccinated. But Sumter county knew this was coming and had months to prepare, is this really the best solution they could come up with?

Oh more excuses, blame the future distribution failure on the people who got the impossible to do vaccine developed and got the vaccine distribution started.

You left out that the new SG said lots things could go wrong on meeting that Summer 2021 target leaving plenty of wiggle room for failure to meet the Operation Warp Speed vaccine rollout schedule.

The STATES DO NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES and THAT is the problem. They are having enough problems using their existing resources to take care of existing patients. I DO NOT expect the feds to send people all over the country and THAT IS the problem with getting the shots out to PEOPLE and not stuck in freezers. There was no preparation and coordination with the states, As Mr Romney stated SOMETHING IS WRONG. There is no comprehensive vaccination plan. Only plan is to UPS/FEDEX them to the counties and say "good luck." Hopefully something will happen in the next few weeks to move this along. From the link copied below:

Romney: Urgent Action Needed on Vaccination Plan | Senator Mitt Romney

“First, call on people who have carried out widespread vaccination programs elsewhere or in the past. Learn from their experience.

“Second, enlist every medical professional, retired or active, who is not currently engaged in the delivery of care. This could include veterinarians, combat medics and corpsmen, medical students, EMS professionals, first responders, and many others who could be easily trained to administer vaccines. Congress has already appropriated funding for states so that these professionals can be fully compensated.

“Public health professionals will easily point out the errors in this plan—so they should develop better alternatives based on experience, modeling and trial. The current program is woefully behind despite the fact that it encompasses the two easiest populations to vaccinate: frontline workers and long-term care residents. Unless new strategies and plans are undertaken, the deadly delays may be compounded as broader and more complex populations are added. We are already behind; urgent action now can help us catch up.”

What is wrong with using the existing flu shot distribution system utilizing pharmacies/big box stores/doctor's offices....

Politicians have no clue how to plan in advance. Their version of fire prevention is....when you see the flames then......

So the new SG told the truth instead of "pie in the sky" verbage. Lock him up or whatever the new rally cry is.

This is an opinion. Not anything scientific or mathematical.

The CDC did develop and publish a comprehensive plan for vaccine distribution. If the states are busy their patients and the feds are busy with their patients where are these doctors and nurses going to come from that are needed? Take time to think the issue through instead of relying on political sound bytes from Romney and Gates.

Not a conspiracy theory, it was in the newspaper!

WARP Speed at a DEAD STOP!!!!:ohdear:

Not sure who the "people who got the vaccine impossible to do" developed that you refer to.

This vaccine has been in the works for years, and it took many hardworking folks throughout the world to get it done.

"Researchers were not starting from scratch when they learned about SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

SARS-CoV-2 is a member of the coronavirus family. According to the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, there are hundreds of coronaviruses — including four that can cause the common cold, as well as the coronaviruses that sparked the SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome, epidemic in 2002 and the emergence of MERS, or Middle East respiratory syndrome, in 2012.

Dr. Eric J. Yager, an associate professor of microbiology at Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences in Albany, NY, told MNT that scientists have been studying coronaviruses for over 50 years. This meant scientists had existing data on the structure, genome, and life cycle of this type of virus.

Dr. Yager explained, “Research on these viruses established the importance of the viral spike (S) protein in viral attachment, fusion, and entry, and identified the S proteins as a target for the development of antibody therapies and vaccines.” He continued:"

COVID-19 vaccine: How was it developed so fast?

Because there aren't enough vaccines to distribute to pharmacies/big box stores/doctors' offices. In addition, not all of those places have the -appropriate- storage, which requires a "super-sub-zero" freezer. Furthermore, smaller stores and doctors' offices would have hundreds of people waiting outside, just to get in, because those stores can't handle crowds that exist pretty specifically to make it no longer necessary to social distance or wear masks.

With the current quantities available, you'd be basically saying "c'mon inside, catch a deadly virus from some random stranger who also happens to be in line, and then we'll make sure that if you don't die in 14 days or end up with permanent lung or heart scarring, you won't catch it again. Maybe."

It's not cost-efficient, it's not practical, it's not pragmatic.

If the vaccine was available in quantities that the flu shots are available, it would still be a problem at first because everyone and their brother is scrambling to get the vaccine. With the flu shot, no one is hurrying to be first in line, and they have a few MONTHS to decide which place they'll get it.

With just basic planning there could be an accumulation date by which many more doses would be available for distribution.
It is not so difficult to determine which locations in the current system are vaccine storage capable.
Generate list of groups and time frame of when.

Supposedly the manufacturers were to be capable of producing "multi millions per month"......certainly enough to predict the needed filling of a pipeline.....

And so on....very, VERY decision making basic planning.
First order of business is to get the political procrastination the hell out of the decision making process.

Good post...makes sense.

Getting the "political" aspect out, should have happened about 11 months ago and we would be better off.

The "last mile" (getting shots into arms) seems to be the weak point right now, the major distribution of the vaccine to the states looks more than adequate so far. So if there is a shortage of people to give the shots and do all of the administrative tasks that go with that why not train an army of volunteers to do this? They would of course work under the supervision of a RN, APRN, or MD but it would require far fewer trained professions, who are badly needed elsewhere, then the current plan. During WWII we trained many thousands of "Rosie the riveter" women to work with complex machinery to produce planes, ships, tanks, and all sorts of weapons. They all had little or no experience doing the jobs they did before they were trained but did their jobs extremely well and helped win the war. It couldn't take that long to train someone to properly and safely do just one single thing which is to give the injections and deal with the paper work and other support tasks. Imagine a large convention center with 1000 volunteers taking care of "the last mile". Just thinking outside the box.

No liability concerns here? I do not want a steelworker giving me injections.

Giving an injection safely is not rocket science. A person of average intelligence could easily learn to do so in a one day class. In fact, most of them could learn to do it in about one hour.

You the one employing these people? You got the means and money to cover the liability? Leave the medicine application to the professionals. Just because a needle riding junkie can do it to themselves does not mean I want an amateur involved in the process.

Last I heard my facility is expected to receive 200 doses of the Moderna vaccine next week to start administering it to patients since most all the employees who were determined high risk for exposure have already been immunized. I case manage patients for two PCPs of a staff of 30 PCPs and my combined PCP's patient panel size is 2000 patients. Of those 2000 patients of just my PCPs 60 patients are in the age range of 85 and above. Of all the PCPs combined all having roughly the same patient panel size significantly > 200 of all these combined patients are > 85. So with your "AGE ONLY method of determining priority" you tell me without utilizing additional criteria how are you going to immunize a possible 1000 85 year old patients who all want it now and not the following week with only 200 doses of vaccine ????

Looking in from the outside, I think the net was cast to wide as far as the age grouping was concernd.
65 + is a huge number in one go.
Think it would have been easier to control demand by starting at 80-85+ and work down in 5-10 year increments.
JMO.