[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl

I am not very well versed on the sinkhole situation in Calumet Grove but what I do know and what you have described is an out-and-out tragedy.

Because of what happened to these two homes, the residents there who want to sell their home cannot do so. The owners of both homes being in their 80s only make this tragedy even worse.

Adding insult to injury, that it's been well over a year since the sinkhole happened, the fact that the Morse family, et al, have seemingly turned their back on the entire situation is reprehensible.
Unless there is a piece of this puzzle I don't understand or am not privy to, it sounds as though the lack of attention to that Village is nothing short of disgraceful.

Is there a reason this situation still exists???
Someone must know the real story as to why the developer has not stepped up to the plate.

Originally Posted by npwalters

My thoughts exactly. I like it here, respect the developers for the financial risks they take, but not so blinded and slavishly devoted that I can't see when it is clear money is driving a decision that detracts from our lifestyle.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl

I am not very well versed on the sinkhole situation in Calumet Grove but what I do know and what you have described is an out-and-out tragedy.

Because of what happened to these two homes, the residents there who want to sell their home cannot do so. The owners of both homes being in their 80s only make this tragedy even worse.

Adding insult to injury, that it's been well over a year since the sinkhole happened, the fact that the Morse family, et al, have seemingly turned their back on the entire situation is reprehensible.
Unless there is a piece of this puzzle I don't understand or am not privy to, it sounds as though the lack of attention to that Village is nothing short of disgraceful.

Is there a reason this situation still exists???
Someone must know the real story as to why the developer has not stepped up to the plate.

Everyone should be adequately insured against loss due to things like sinkholes, earthquakes and lightning strikes. They happen quite unexpectedly and are blamed on many things.

The builder of the homes in ANY area is not responsible for such things.

The owners of the homes completely ruined by the sinkhole passed their homes to a company that has tied up things. Most people in their eighties here well manage to take care of things and do not need pity.

And they are capable of moving and usually can so do if they wish.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Everyone should be adequately insured against loss due to things like sinkholes, earthquakes and lightning strikes. They happen quite unexpectedly and are blamed on many things.

The builder of the homes in ANY area is not responsible for such things.

The owners of the homes completely ruined by the sinkhole passed their homes to a company that has tied up things. Most people in their eighties here well manage to take care of things and do not need pity.

And they are capable of moving and usually can so do if they wish.

According to this article human activity can lead to sinkholes although most are naturally occurring. Sinkhole activity within The Villages is specifically addressed.

"Man-made development, it turns out, is the most persistent factor for increased sinkholes. Earth-moving equipment scrapes away protective layers of soil; parking lots and paved roads divert rainwater to new infiltration points; the weight of new buildings presses down on weak spots; buried infrastructure can lead to leaking pipes; and, perhaps most of all, the pumping of groundwater disrupts the delicate water table that keeps the karst stable. “Our preliminary research indicates that the risk of sinkholes is 11 times greater in developed areas than undeveloped ones,” says George Veni, the executive director of the National Cave and Karst Research Institute who conducted a field study in Sinkhole Alley."


Read more: The Science Behind Florida’s Sinkhole Epidemic
|
Science
| Smithsonian

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

According to this article human activity can lead to sinkholes although most are naturally occurring. Sinkhole activity within The Villages is specifically addressed.

"Man-made development, it turns out, is the most persistent factor for increased sinkholes. Earth-moving equipment scrapes away protective layers of soil; parking lots and paved roads divert rainwater to new infiltration points; the weight of new buildings presses down on weak spots; buried infrastructure can lead to leaking pipes; and, perhaps most of all, the pumping of groundwater disrupts the delicate water table that keeps the karst stable. “Our preliminary research indicates that the risk of sinkholes is 11 times greater in developed areas than undeveloped ones,” says George Veni, the executive director of the National Cave and Karst Research Institute who conducted a field study in Sinkhole Alley."


Read more: The Science Behind Florida’s Sinkhole Epidemic
|
Science
| Smithsonian

That is quite likely true. We have lived in Central Florida for almost thirteen years now and almost every year there has been a sinkhole in The Villages. I think less than five have badly harmed any houses and all of them up until now were repaired and are now lived in by someone.

I have always been told that the area in North Central Florida is more prone to sinkholes than the Panhandle or the southernmost part of the peninsula. Florida is growing quickly in population and in building and is now the third most populous state in the U.S., behind California and Texas.

No one here in The Villages has ever been physically harmed by a sinkhole thank goodness, but they do scare people.

Are you still thinking about living here Manabouttown?

Here are several Florida sinkhole maps from 2018. Florida Map Of Sinkholes | Florida Map 2018

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Marilyn RIccio

On 2/15/18 there was a catastrophic event on an easement located between 17086 and 17092 SE 79th Mclawren Terrace The Villages. Neighbors by that location requested assistance in writing to the developer requesting any assistance he could give in assisting to repair the problem. The original home owners sold their dream retirement homes to a company that fixed I buy sick homes who has further let the neighborhood down by not fixing the homes. The hole on the easement destroyed both homes, as well as, the street in front of the homes. The Developer has all the resources to fix the problem with the easement, as well as, the homes. The developer originally had the pipe placed in the easement which failed on 2/15/18 resulting in the catastrophic event. The Neighbors and others requested the developer buy the two damaged homes he originally built and fix the problem that resulted from the easement he placed between the homes that resulted in failure and a catastrophic event destroying two retirees homes, as well as, permanently damaging a neighborhood. Mclawren terrace has been closed and neighbors living there do not feel it is the Friendliest home town because since the event The Developer has refused to send his brilliant workmen to repair the problem. How would you feel if your retirement neighborhood and investment was destroyed and the person that built it that had all the resources in the world to fix it has simply said NO!

Originally Posted by Marilyn RIccio

Yes, it is true the home owner owns the easement, however, in this case the Stormwater pipe originally installed within the easement collapsed causing the destruction of two homes, the road, and property values in the neighborhood. When most people buy their retirement home in the villages they are not told about what is in the easement. I doubt the easement is ever discussed by any realtor to a buyer. I hope this does not happen to others as the result is devastating.

Thank you, Marilyn Riccio. I have been following that situation, off and on, for a while. Those people have to feel trapped and heavily stressed. I have the ability (or maybe it’s a curse) to put myself in another’s place and give thought to how they must feel. (Sometimes I wish I were callous and self-absorbed. But I do not think my personality will change after having it for oh so many decades.)

Many people in TV have mortgage-free homes. A lot of them have paid cash up front, having sold their houses up north for a tidy profit. While there is a definite comfort zone in having no mortgage, it means that the homeowner is the bank, the whole bank, and nothing but
the bank — the risk-carrier.

Each time I hear about a sinkhole, I wonder how Citizen’s bank would respond if such devastating loss landed with them because they were holding the mortgage, owning the house. (Just a thought. I have been told that I often think outside the box.)

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Everyone shoould be adequately insured against loss due to things like sinkholes, earthquakes and lightning strikes. They happen quite unexpectedly and are blamed on many things.

The builder of the homes in ANY area is not responsible for such things.

The owners of the homes completely ruined by the sinkhole passed their homes to a company that has tied up things. Most people in their eighties here well manage to take care of things and do not need pity.

And they are capable of moving and usually can so do if they wish.

Gracie, if I may respectfully take issue with your first sentence above about adequate insurance, I must point out that there is an enormous difference in the aftermath of the natural occurrences you use in your examples.

First of all, those of us who have been around here for a long time know that insuring for sinkholes has a checkered past. Additionally, and especially, the glaring difference is that owners of sinkhole properties, no matter how insured, seem to never be whole again. Insurance for earthquakes and lightning strikes — also tornadoes and hurricanes and such — can put the homeowner back in place in a house all back together and all is well. But when the loss is the very ground beneath the home, it is a devastating and on going loss — nothing is ever the same.

Originally Posted by manaboutown

According to this article human activity can lead to sinkholes although most are naturally occurring. Sinkhole activity within The Villages is specifically addressed.

"Man-made development, it turns out, is the most persistent factor for increased sinkholes. Earth-moving equipment scrapes away protective layers of soil; parking lots and paved roads divert rainwater to new infiltration points; the weight of new buildings presses down on weak spots; buried infrastructure can lead to leaking pipes; and, perhaps most of all, the pumping of groundwater disrupts the delicate water table that keeps the karst stable. “Our preliminary research indicates that the risk of sinkholes is 11 times greater in developed areas than undeveloped ones,” says George Veni, the executive director of the National Cave and Karst Research Institute who conducted a field study in Sinkhole Alley."


Read more: The Science Behind Florida’s Sinkhole Epidemic
|
Science
| Smithsonian

Hey, manaboutown. I have read about this over the years. Geology was my favorite science class, second place was botany. (Yes. I know. Sheldon Cooper would not consider them to be real science. )

Also, I must compliment you are you choice of sources for this one.

- - - -

And, another thing, I find the go-to grasping of the word ’jealousy’ by the die-hard, all-or-nothing developer defenders to be tedious and ridiculous.

I have often, in posts here, compared owning in TV to be like owning stock in a corporation. The Lifestyle to be enjoyed is like a dividend paid by the stock. Dividend investors, by their very nature, pay close attention to what is happening to the investment itself and, of course, to the dividend. Is the dividend increasing or being cut or holding steady? The decision to buy or sell said stock lies with the owner — not with someone spewing the old, “Don’t let the door hit you in the backside” cliche.

We felt as if the investment in TV was a pretty safe one. That’s all. I have no need to dance in a conga line around the developer who does not know me any more than the CEO of any other company knows me. It’s a business — merely a business — on both ends. (my personal view)

Oh well, while I am taking up an entire page, quoting and commenting, I might as well throw in something else:

To Jazeula and Midnight Cowgirl,

I really like your posts. Your writing is insightful, smart, with a sparkle, and just the right amount of sass.

Sincerely,
Boomer

[graciegirl]

../

[graciegirl]

It is my understanding that people were taking advantage of the insurance and blaming every crack and fine line on sinkholes so that the insurance was being swamped. (and scammed)

Here is one of several insurance companies explaining it. The two counties most affected were Hernando and Pasco.

Just FYI, it has been several years ago now. All people can get sinkhole coverage that I know.

Sinkhole Insurance in Florida: The Saga

And...….Sometimes our discussions on here turn into whose on who's side.

Many people now reading this who are in their eighties are managing many things, and living a full life here and some on our street have moved. They don't need pity.

[It's Hot There]

Reading all the off topic sinkhole posts........why are they still on this tread. It was a good thread.

[Midnight Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by It's Hot There

Reading all the off topic sinkhole posts........why are they still on this tread. It was a good thread.

And it still is!

[It's Hot There]

Not really.

The thread was to better understand why some posters are "always" negative........why do they have the need to post.

Some of the posters in that category are just posting negative comments, not explaining why the negativity.

The sinkhole postings are off topic.

Oh well.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by It's Hot There

Reading all the off topic sinkhole posts........why are they still on this tread. It was a good thread.

May I say that I respectfully disagree.

Here’s why:

The OP was asking for the “whys” of opinions of the developer.

Opinions do not and should not have to be an “Us vs.Them” but too often that is the case. No discussion. No specifics. Just a team-picking, wagon-circling, same ol’ same ol’ scripted back and forth. z-z-z-z-z

But it is much more interesting when opinions are multi-faceted with specifics to back up reasons for our thinking.

There are many wonderful things about TV, many things we like. We bought.

But I have been around long enough to know there are some other things that are not all lollipops and roses. Those are mostly specific things that affect only some of the people — so I guess others must figure it’s not happening to them — so OK. Don’t want to think or hear about it — la-la-la-la. Or maybe just don’t care, as long as it does not directly affect them. Others feel differently.

When topics veer into territory that some do not find pleasing to what they want to read about the developer, well — the thread often ends up directed into getting closed.

The sinkhole segue that you are wondering about evolved from an opinion on how the developer could have, perhaps, assisted the homeowners with a specific sinkhole mess that has happened here. There are those who think that had the developer “come through” to help, that would have been appropriate and definitely admirable — in the opinions of some — me, included.

Anyway, to make a long story longer, the sinkhole discussion is on topic because it is about an opinion of something that happened with the developer. Also, a sinkhole is devastating and the property is never the same. Help would have been a lovely gesture with probably a very decent intangible return on the investment in helping. Just my opinion.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by It's Hot There

Not really.

The thread was to better understand why some posters are "always" negative........why do they have the need to post.

Some of the posters in that category are just posting negative comments, not explaining why the negativity.

The sinkhole postings are off topic.

Oh well.

I H T


Welcome to ToTV..............posters twist to beat something to death (ie: their negativity towards the Developer) They try to make it the topic.


The thread:
Why do other people appear to want to negative and have a dislike for TV/The Developer???




Not about opinions, not about sinkholes as some may twist the thread to.


The thread: Just wondering why some posters are "always" negative.


Jealous (or a related vein) appears to be the dominate "why".


The Developer and family are not perfect. No one thinks they are perfect.


Keep reading and posting.



You are right...........It's hot.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

I H T


Welcome to ToTV..............posters twist to beat something to death (ie: their negativity towards the Developer) They try to make it the topic.


The thread:
Why do other people appear to want to negative and have a dislike for TV/The Developer???




Not about opinions, not about sinkholes as some may twist the thread to.


The thread: Just wondering why some posters are "always" negative.


Jealous (or a related vein) appears to be the dominate "why".


The Developer and family are not perfect. No one thinks they are perfect.


Keep reading and posting.



You are right...........It's hot.

It is hot. Very hot. Makes folks grumpy. Brings back people to post on here who no longer live here. There are many agenda's on any online forum. Some are hidden and some are not.

Everyone, including me, thinks THEY are the innocent one, showing others the error of their ways.

The smartest thing my mother ever said is

LEAST SAID. SOONEST MENDED.

Will try to do that for a few days.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

I H T


Welcome to ToTV..............posters twist to beat something to death (ie: their negativity towards the Developer) They try to make it the topic.


The thread:
Why do other people appear to want to negative and have a dislike for TV/The Developer???




Not about opinions, not about sinkholes as some may twist the thread to.


The thread: Just wondering why some posters are "always" negative.


Jealous (or a related vein) appears to be the dominate "why".


The Developer and family are not perfect. No one thinks they are perfect.


Keep reading and posting.



You are right...........It's hot.

We lived in a wonderful condo development at Lake Michigan. We owned a boat slip (slip-o-minium? I forget what it was called) in a marina attached to our condo. In both cases, the developer started out great and eventually started slicing away at the amenities. It was still a great place to live, and but for the weather we would still be there.


Every developer is in it for the bottom line. I don't know why when some of them become so astronomically rich that they still carve stuff off. Some on this forum have listed in detail the chipping away.


Because I love it here, I put up with it. Still, it makes me sigh. Just my opinion.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Just my opinion.

Happiness is when your life on the outside matches your life on the inside.





New tagline????............or am I just slow at noticing???




Love it.




The opposite is true as well.