[Velvet]

You are right, it is beyond naive to expect developers would pay for anything in the long run. They are in business. (Calling a cat a cat is not bashing by the way, and to call it that is trying to Bamboozle everyone.) In the past those who benefited ie. the owners of the homes, were the ones that paid for infrastructure through bonds and maintenance. My parents, for example. That has changed. What is objected to by people right now from what I read is that in order to sell houses cheaply the current homeowners are asked to pay for the new infrastructure.

It is mentioned that in other jurisdictions this is the case. There are no other jurisdictions that are directly comparable to TV. Where is there farm etc land bought up, and developed for sale and other people living somewhere else are subsidizing this process? You can say it’s ok till the cows come home, but you know what is really happening.

[Bogie Shooter]

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Velvet

You are right, it is beyond naive to expect developers would pay for anything in the long run. They are in business. (Calling a cat a cat is not bashing by the way, and to call it that is trying to Bamboozle everyone.) In the past those who benefited ie. the owners of the homes, were the ones that paid for infrastructure through bonds and maintenance. My parents, for example. That has changed. What is objected to by people right now from what I read is that in order to sell houses cheaply the current homeowners are asked to pay for the new infrastructure.

It is mentioned that in other jurisdictions this is the case. There are no other jurisdictions that are directly comparable to TV. Where is there farm etc land bought up, and developed for sale and other people living somewhere else are subsidizing this process? You can say it’s ok till the cows come home, but you know what is really happening.

More than the current homeowners within TV as it exists today are paying for new infrastructure necessary to essentially double the size of The Villages. ALL who own real property anywhere in Sumter county will be paying for it literally forever through this onerous tax increase on their property.

[Velvet]

Thank you, Boogie, for your signature. I believe in it, and as an elementary teacher, I taught it.

[dave111]

Comparing Collier to Sumter county is apples and oranges. Not including a comparison of CDD or bond fees which pay for new development costs gives a distorted picture. The $901 impact fee seemed way off which is supported by the data provided by njbchbum in the previous post.
Having said that an increase like what is coming in Sumter is excessive from one year to the next. I am all for digging into the details to see how it was deemed necessary, I hate high taxes.

[Velvet]

On that note, any second generation TVers around?

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Why would the Commissioners wait until 2020 to increase the impact fee? That should have been done instead of increasing taxes once it became clear that a massive infrastructure expansion was necessary. The impact fee was not increased at that time, and property taxes were, for the reasons outlined in my original post.

LOL You are the poster who claimed that impact fees are to be reviewed every 5 years...thus 2020! The impact fee was not raised when Fenny, et.al. were announced and neither were S.C. taxes! But life is different now and something else should have been done *because* a tax increase was implemented? lololol

If the County maintained that 'rainy day' fund for unanticipated issues it would have that funding to fall back on in order to avoid such a serious tax increase. You claimed it is not raining - I claim that S.C. is suffering from a torrential downpour! Even my little town up north maintains that 'rainy day' fund with a small percentage of its annual tax revenue to be used to cover $$ associated with properties on which owners fail to pay their taxes or for other community issues which would place a burden on the taxpayers!

Why did no one complain when taxes were not increased for so many years? Was everyone enjoying riding the gravy train? So now the train is back in the depot and the piper needs to be paid for maintenance work that needs to be done and in preparation for the next gravy train run!

The S.C millage rate is still the lowest of all 3 Villages Counties - is it not?

[Velvet]

Are you kidding? Taxes were not increased because the bond covered infrastructure. Trying to guilt trip people isn’t going to work. But statistics and equivalent comparisons may be convincing.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

LOL You are the poster who claimed that impact fees are to be reviewed every 5 years...thus 2020! The impact fee was not raised when Fenny, et.al. were announced and neither were S.C. taxes! But life is different now and something else should have been done *because* a tax increase was implemented? lololol

If the County maintained that 'rainy day' fund for unanticipated issues it would have that funding to fall back on in order to avoid such a serious tax increase. You claimed it is not raining - I claim that S.C. is suffering from a torrential downpour! Even my little town up north maintains that 'rainy day' fund with a small percentage of its annual tax revenue to be used to cover $$ associated with properties on which owners fail to pay their taxes or for other community issues which would place a burden on the taxpayers!

Why did no one complain when taxes were not increased for so many years? Was everyone enjoying riding the gravy train? So now the train is back in the depot and the piper needs to be paid for maintenance work that needs to be done and in preparation for the next gravy train run!

The S.C millage rate is still the lowest of all 3 Villages Counties - is it not?

I am afraid that you misread my post and didn't check the Sumter County website.

I said that the impact fees were to be reviewed “at least every 5 years” [emphasis added]. For your information, here is a quote from the Sumter County web site:
“Section 20-48 of the Sumter County Code of Ordinances requires that the data upon which road impact fees are calculated be reviewed at least once every five years to ensure that a valid and equitable basis for the assessment of such fees is maintained.”

I am glad to be educated if I make a mistake, but please get your facts straight and don't misquote me.

The issue here is simple: The Developer came to his toadies on the Commission with a plan to double the size of The Villages, which will necessitate large expenditures for infrastructure. The toadies on the Commission could pay for this infrastructure expansion either through increasing the Developer's impact fee or by imposing a tax increase on Sumter County residents. The Commissioners chose the latter.

This has nothing to do with a rainy-day fund or the failure of the Commissioners to set one up. Had they set up a rainy-day fund, it would still be the taxpayers, not the Developer, paying for the infrastructure expansion necessitated by The Villages expansion.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Martian

The title of the thread is misleading. The implication is that ONLY TV tax payers are paying and second that somehow the developers would foot the bill if it were not taxed.

The fact is that residents in TV would pay one way or the other. The money is for things that would be done no matter what given the growth of TV. Also, it can be argued that the development of TV in this county increases the value of properties around TV.

This seems to be the same argument that "I don't have kids, why should I pay for schools", or "I don't own a car why should I pay for roads", and on and on. We all share in the cost of our community, it can be paid up front, or buried in taxes, or hidden in "invisible taxes" (like gasoline taxes).

A better question to me would be "are we getting our moneys worth". The fact is is being paid through taxes or amenity or bond or built into home sales price is not relevant to me.

In fact, Sumter County non-Villagers are getting screwed worse than Villagers by the increase in their taxes versus an increase in the Developer's impact fee. This is because the non-residents have no access to The Villages amenities. The non-residents, if they understand what is being done to them, should be irate

Furthermore, economics 101: No seller can just add his increased costs to the price of his product. The Developer would have to absorb some or all of an increased impact fee because of competition in the market. That is why he stopped his Commissioners from increasing it, and they increased our taxes instead.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Why would the Commissioners wait until 2020 to increase the impact fee? That should have been done instead of increasing taxes once it became clear that a massive infrastructure expansion was necessary. The impact fee was not increased at that time, and property were, for the reasons outlined in my original post.

The Commissioners would not have to wait until 2020. The impact fees were to be reviewed AT LEAST every 5 years.

[Big O]

Furthermore, economics 101: No seller can just add his increased costs to the price of his product. The Developer would have to absorb some or all of an increased impact fee because of competition in the market. That is why he stopped his Commissioners from increasing it, and they increased our taxes instead.[/QUOTE]

Economics must be different where you come from. Where I come from you increase your price to cover the increased costs or you go out of business.

[Advogado]

Quote: Economics must be different where you come from. Where I come from you increase your price to cover the increased costs or you go out of business. Unquote


I am not sure where you studied economics, but you must live in a communist country.

In a capitalist economy, you must sell your product at a competitive price or you go out of business. You cannot simply add increased costs to your price (unless the costs are also increased for your competitors). That is why businesses always try to reduce their costs.

In any case, how much the Developer would have to absorb is not the issue here. The issue is tax increase for everybody versus impact-fee increase for the Developer.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Please share your popcorn..............the thread is funny and sad at the same time.

[Mikeod]

So, how is this any different from other municipalities, counties, or states that provide tax and other incentives to get companies to move into them? Certainly the tax shortfall created has to be addressed by a tax increase.

The Villages isn’t the only one building in Sumter. Perhaps the county was concerned raising impact fees across the board may discourage other builders and reduce potential tax revenue.

Perhaps the county saw an opportunity to dramatically increase its tax base through increased building of residential and commercial property and, at the same time, address the need for a comprehensive improvement in surface routes in the county.

And I don’t remember reading that the developer won’t also have to pay the increase on all his property, such as unsold homes, the squares, the commercial areas, etc. maybe I missed that.

To me, the only ones with a legitimate gripe are those living in other areas of the county that believes they are ignored in favor of Villages residents.