[gfmucci]

The book "Leisureville" portrays The Villages and other age-restricted retirement communities as "ghettos."

I offer a better example of the term "ghetto":* large public schools.* Large public schools are a great example of an "age restricted ghetto"* - especially our mega-schools, the ones that have 2,000 or 3,000 students - in school districts that value "economies of scale" above a good education and social integration.*

First, in these schools the students are forced to go there.* Most have no choice.* Second, they are all segregated (by age) and herded around like Alcatraz prisoners.* Their primary influences are from among their peers, often in the form of "the laws of the jungle" or in this case, "the laws of the gangs."* There is little influence from older/wiser generations.* And we wonder why we have a whole generation of declining achievement and questionable attitudes?

In contrast, "age-restricted communities" do not fit that definition by any stretch of the imagination, despite whatever Blechman might be smoking.* Residents choose to locate in these communities, often after months or years of analysis.* They have earned the right to make these choices.* They no longer have the young, easily impressionable minds that require the politically correct and beloved "diversity" training that some feel essential for our youth.* Most of us have had 50 to 60 years of diversity training and experience.* And finally, and this is the biggie, we are not children that require adult supervision (although some of us have childlike mood swings - that's a good thing for any age person!)* School aged children would benefit by and require much more adult supervision than they are receiving - the harvest of what we've sown is bearing this out.*

Gen X'ers need to stay out of our face with regard to our lifestyle choices and not blame those over 55 for not remaining in their diverse communities bringing up the kids they are now responsible to raise.*

Maybe the soon to retire "boomers" who have shaped public school policies for the past 20 years will enable others to put quality education above economies of scale.

http://www.seniorsworldchronicle.com...s-at-play.html

Not sure how serious this author is about retirement communities. This seems more like a point of view piece-- like a Andy Rooney plaint-- rather than serious investigative journalism.

[gfmucci]

Quote from the above-referenced article sent by Taltarzac:

"What really rankles [the author of Leisureville], though, is their indifference -- again, in his view -- to the world beyond The Villages."

He wouldn't have that view if he scanned some of our TOTV political threads! :

In any event, I certainly didn't mean to get another "Leisureville" thread started...
Large public schools are the real "ghettos."

Agree with you there about large urban public schools. Except that there too there are people trying to change things from within.

[graciegirl]

GF. There are many large public schools that are doing a wonderful job educating kids, and socializing them.

I truly believe that the difficulties that we had not observed before in this world with young people is probably due to the fact that many parents are handing them over at a very young age to someone to take care of them for eight hours a day, five days a week, who does not adore them or would not die for them, or worry about what they say and do all night.

I would opt to have one car and a smallish house again and not use my college education outside my home for the five years it takes to launch a little one. No one thinks twice about giving up four years of productive living to go to college, but then they give birth and hand over a baby to someone that they wouldn't let drive their car.

Just my opinion.

[gfmucci]

Are "great" or even "good" 2,500 plus student high schools the norm or the exception? And while the academics may be good, how well are kids socialized who spend 80 or 90% of their waking hours among their peers? That's what I wonder about. It just seems so...what's the word..."socialist" ...to herd that many kids together in a government run program of indoctrination - and with so little adult influence and interaction.

[graciegirl]

Yes. Many mega schools are great because the opportunities exist for students to function and thrive in smaller groups. They are great because the teachers are great.

We (being a lot of parents) worked hard when our children went to school in a small "farm school district" called Lakota Local 30 years ago. Now it is a VERY large school district. Our grandchildren go there now and we are still involved, serving on the curriculum committee.

Lakota East High School produces the national award winning Spark magazine, every six weeks. It is a very professional glossy, full color, presentation that does not flinch from topics like immigration and drug use, with an annual budget of 30,000, earned and managed by the students.
(Please google Lakota East Spark.)

The personal interest of the staff is the key to success of large schools. The personal interest of teachers is the key to success of any schools.

Students have a wide variety of activities that they can choose to join. Here is a current list of Clubs, Activities, Organizations, and Sports Teams at Lakota East.

Academic Quiz Team
American Sign Language
Art Club
Baseball-Boys
Basketball-Boys
Basketball-Girls
Bowling
Cheerleading-Basketball
Cheerleading-Competition Squad
Cheerleading-Football
Chess Team
Computer Club
Cross Country
Dance Team
F.I.R.S.T. Robotics Team
Football
Friends of Rachel
Future Educators of America
German Club
GMC Leadership
Golf-Boys
Golf-Girls
Gymnastics
GSA
Hugh O'Brian (HOBY) Leadership
Intramurals
JETS Team
J. Kyle Braid (JKB) Leadership
Junior Class
Junior Classical League-Latin Club
Junior State of America (JSA)
Literary Magazine
Marching Band
Marching Band Auxiliary (Guard)
Mu Alpha Theta-National Math Honor Society
Multicultural Enhancement Club
National Honor Society (NHS)
Peer Counseling
Peer Mediation
Prom Committee
Psychology Club
Radio-WHLS 89.9 FM
Student Activity Committees in Action (SACA)
Science Club
Senior Class Activities
Soccer-Boys
Soccer-Girls
Softball
Sophomore Class Activities
SPARK News Magazine-Journalism
Swimming & Diving
Tennis-Boys
Tennis-Girls
Theater
Track & Field
Under Pressure
Vocal Music Groups
Volleyball-Boys
Volleyball-Girls
Winter Color Guard
Wrestling
Yearbook

I am very proud of this school system as you can see.

[Irish Rover]

I just finished the book last night. I agree with a couple of the posts but I interpreted some of the authors points differently. One point he made was that "age segregation" ala Sun City & TV seems to cause school bonds to fail at the ballot box. He cites several instances where the seniors actually had their community removed from the county school tax obligation, which in turn caused some of the large school situations gfmucci talked about.

He also says that "age segregation" deprives the younger people in the country from learning from their experienced elders. With all of the new "senior's only" communities being built or in the planning stage, he thinks a lot of experience and knowledge will not be passed on to the generations behind us because young people are not welcome in the community.

My take on the overall book was that he has a real bone to pick with the developers of these new "over 55" communities. He feels that they will eventually leave the residents with huge debt when the developer finally pulls out. There is also the "lemming factor" that says the residents have no say in their local government or rules so they just fall inline and drink the Koolade.

The stories he relates about specific people and situations were funny and sad too. Most of the things he discusses in his interviews have been seen in the paper or talked about for years in the coffee shops. Unfortunately, I think most of them are true.

Take the book with a grain of salt because after all, it's just one man's opinion.

Irishrover

[gfmucci]

I have no doubt we can be proud of "the many" mega- public schools. "Many" does not necessary mean "most", and "many" can still be an exception. How many underbelly, illicit, and troublesome associations and activities go on "under the radar" outside of these myriad of activities in these mega schools?

Just as I have no doubt there are many in age restricted communities who do not participate in activities because of infirmities, depression, and just not being the social type. Except in the case of older folk, the great majority of us have been properly socialized after 55 or 65 years of life. In the case of young people, most have not been socialized and have formed anti-social behaviors outside of the established system devoid of adult supervision and influence - that is the rub.

[graciegirl]

I agree with Irish and don't agree with you on this one GF.

We are still very involved with the young people around here. They aren't perfect, but they are damned close to the kind of people their parents were and in some cases their grandparents. Some still sing in the church chior and are Eagle Scouts. Some work hard to get straight A's and cut their grandparents grass. Our neigbors' boys shovel our snow before they go to school and before we get up in the morning. (And won't take money!!) Some neighbor kids aren't kids now, one just passed the bar and the other will be a pediatrician come June.

We still leave our house unlocked in this area of Ohio. I find the kids I know and the kids they know are doin' good. :bigthumbsup:

[gfmucci]

You are very fortunate. And I have no doubt that there are some excellent schools, both large and small. Nonetheless, there are recent studies that indicate a number of advantages of smaller schools which usually include such things as...

More adult interaction with and influence on students
More opportunity to participate in the most popular activities, e.g. ability to "make the team."
More small group learning opportunities
Greater likelihood of well-rounded socialization
Less peer pressure
Generally shorter travel distances to school because smaller schools are likely to have smaller school districts than large schools that typically draw from a larger area. Shorter travel distance lead to less travel time and greater opportunity for families to participate in school activities.

[Muncle]

As the liberal but none the less intelligent Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote in 1983: "If an unfriendly foreign power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war. As it stands, we have allowed this to happen to ourselves."

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Muncle

As the liberal but none the less intelligent Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote in 1983: "If an unfriendly foreign power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war. As it stands, we have allowed this to happen to ourselves."

Or NOT allowed it to happen. We can complain and criticize or we can remain involved. Praise for things well done is probably more effective than damning something done poorly. We do not feel shy about doing either. We are never too old to help our local school system.

I myself graduated in a class of almost 400 in a public school. My granddaughters class is almost three times that big.

As you can see, this is one of my passions. I have said enough. I care deeply about what happens to the young people in my realm and those that aren't.

I like young people, I can still speak their language and they seem to know mine as well. My teen grandchildren allow us to entertain their groups of friends three or four times a year. They have a diverse bunch of friends, all good eggs with a wonderful sense of humor, and all headed for success.

[gfmucci]

"Almost three times as big" is almost 1,200 students.* This is relatively small by standards for many high schools today which average 2,000 to 3,000 students in many areas.

This topic has nothing to do with liking or not liking kids.* It has nothing to do with old people (like myself) remaining involved with schools and kids or not.* I pick the "not" at this stage of my life.* Others like yourself choose to stay involved.* That's great.

This topic has everything to do with responsible parents (yes, it's their turn) getting out of the habit of putting up with impersonal cattle pens that pass for schools for their kids.* And yes, Gracie, I get it.* I have no doubt that there are many exceptions.* But they remain exceptions.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by gfmucci

"Almost three times as big" is almost 1,200 students. This is relatively small by standards for many high schools today which average 2,000 to 3,000 students in many areas.

Originally Posted by gfmucci

This topic has nothing to do with liking or not liking kids. It has nothing to do with old people (like myself) remaining involved with schools and kids or not. I pick the "not" at this stage of my life. Others like yourself choose to stay involved. That's great.

This topic has everything to do with responsible parents (yes, it's their turn) getting out of the habit of putting up with impersonal cattle pens that pass for schools for their kids. And yes, Gracie, I get it. I have no doubt that there are many exceptions. But they remain exceptions.

IN A CLASS? NOT A SCHOOL! ???????? Well then, I am really out of the loop.

I refer back to my original statement saying that parents handed over their babies early on. NOW I am done.

And GF. You don't get it. And thank you for the "That's great". I guess.