[RayinPenn]

The youth was a convicted fellon and was pointing a 9MM at the policeman.

I've been surfing the net and The news headlines appear to be incendiary. They would have us focus on that the cops camera wasn't on. Did they not pay attention? Felon, gun ... That's enough for me.

Did you see the ruckus that followed? Tossing bricks and bombs at the police!
Dam I say you throw a brick at me and I'd shoot to kill.

[Edjkoz]

I seriously doubt that these protesters have any idea of what they are protesting. It's just an excuse to make trouble. Where are the marchers who support the police and rule of law?

[Jimturner]

Police first. Criminals last

[DonH57]

Pointing what looks like a weapon at a police officer never ends well.

[rubicon]

of course the protesters reacted. These are the same people who upon learning to police officers celebrated and kept chanting we want dead cops when to want them we want them now.

If I were a cop the blue flu would sure be inviting. but they are oath keepers

[pivo]

The news should read--

Youth shot by policeman.

That's how the news should read period.
Do they print white policeman shoots a irishman, polish, german, chinese, russian no

[blueash]

Perhaps because you are at home with media available and not at the locale where rumors swirl you make a more measured judgment. If you were in a town right next to Ferguson and heard that another black man had been shot by another white cop (even if those racial identities turned out to be wrong) you would be very angry. You will see this particular shooting disappear from the focus of the community once the videos are more widely seen. It was clearly a self defense shooting.

However that does not mitigate the question of whether we have a problem in this country with poor policing. This officer forgot to put on his camera? It is part of his required equipment or it is optional, I don't know which but I would expect that he is required to wear it.
One can support a strong and professional and well trained police force and simultaneously call for justice when people are killed by police. Justice does not mean conviction, justice means a full unbiased investigation and when appropriate trial. And call for a system where bad cops and rogue cops and racist cops are removed from their jobs. Just as one can support the military but vigorously protest against My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Just as one can love your kids but let them know when they make a mistake.

Even Fox News opinionators were surprised that the NY Grand Jury didn't indict in Garner's death, for something. What many seem to not understand is the appearance that the lives of black men mean nothing in our judicial system. Whether they are shot, choked, stopped while walking, driving, shopping, jogging or sitting in a park, they are suspected more than respected.
With that background I understand the sensitivity to the next and the next and the next shooting, whether justified or not.

[redwitch]

Totally agree with blueash. Thank you for saying what I think and saying it so well.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

Perhaps because you are at home with media available and not at the locale where rumors swirl you make a more measured judgment. If you were in a town right next to Ferguson and heard that another black man had been shot by another white cop (even if those racial identities turned out to be wrong) you would be very angry. You will see this particular shooting disappear from the focus of the community once the videos are more widely seen. It was clearly a self defense shooting.

However that does not mitigate the question of whether we have a problem in this country with poor policing. This officer forgot to put on his camera? It is part of his required equipment or it is optional, I don't know which but I would expect that he is required to wear it.
One can support a strong and professional and well trained police force and simultaneously call for justice when people are killed by police. Justice does not mean conviction, justice means a full unbiased investigation and when appropriate trial. And call for a system where bad cops and rogue cops and racist cops are removed from their jobs. Just as one can support the military but vigorously protest against My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Just as one can love your kids but let them know when they make a mistake.

Even Fox News opinionators were surprised that the NY Grand Jury didn't indict in Garner's death, for something. What many seem to not understand is the appearance that the lives of black men mean nothing in our judicial system. Whether they are shot, choked, stopped while walking, driving, shopping, jogging or sitting in a park, they are suspected more than respected.
With that background I understand the sensitivity to the next and the next and the next shooting, whether justified or not.

It is just that so many black lives are heading toward that confrontation that saddens me. WHY? Both Garner and Brown had broken the law and both resisted arrest. PLEASE don't forget that. People who are insane are shot. Remember the young woman near the White House a few years back who tried to ram her car through the White House gates? She had her children in the car and they killed her. She was mentally ill and I couldn't tell you what color she was. That is how it IS, Blueash. People need to know WHEN to STOP. Stop means stop and messing with an armed police officer could get you very dead. THE LAW HAS to be respected. I don't think Garner or Brown had anything to do with RACE.


Blueash. Do you have any thoughts as to why so many young black men are suspected rather than respected?

[blueash]

Originally Posted by rubicon

of course the protesters reacted. These are the same people who upon learning to police officers celebrated and kept chanting we want dead cops when to want them we want them now.

If I were a cop the blue flu would sure be inviting. but they are oath keepers

What do you mean by "these are the same people"? Where were there celebrations of the deaths of the NYC cops or the one here in Florida? I am not aware of any celebrations rather universal condemnation seemed to have been the response. You have posted that people who protested in Berkeley are the same people who chanted "we want dead cops" (no such protest chart ever was reported from Berkeley) and are the same people who celebrated the shooting of the cops, no such celebration was reported anywhere in the country that I saw reported. So now, please explain your statement because what it seem to suggest is that all black people are the same and they are all responsible for any actions of any other black person, even actions that never happened.

And the oath keepers is an organization that tells cops and military to DISOBEY orders when the individual feels the order is against that person's personal interpretation of the constitution. It is a far right group with politics that closely align with the militia movement. What makes you believe that most cops are members of such an organization? Or perhaps you didn't mean that organization and it was just a coincidental use of the same to (sic) words

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by blueash

Perhaps because you are at home with media available and not at the locale where rumors swirl you make a more measured judgment. If you were in a town right next to Ferguson and heard that another black man had been shot by another white cop (even if those racial identities turned out to be wrong) you would be very angry. You will see this particular shooting disappear from the focus of the community once the videos are more widely seen. It was clearly a self defense shooting.

However that does not mitigate the question of whether we have a problem in this country with poor policing. This officer forgot to put on his camera? It is part of his required equipment or it is optional, I don't know which but I would expect that he is required to wear it.
One can support a strong and professional and well trained police force and simultaneously call for justice when people are killed by police. Justice does not mean conviction, justice means a full unbiased investigation and when appropriate trial. And call for a system where bad cops and rogue cops and racist cops are removed from their jobs. Just as one can support the military but vigorously protest against My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Just as one can love your kids but let them know when they make a mistake.

Even Fox News opinionators were surprised that the NY Grand Jury didn't indict in Garner's death, for something. What many seem to not understand is the appearance that the lives of black men mean nothing in our judicial system. Whether they are shot, choked, stopped while walking, driving, shopping, jogging or sitting in a park, they are suspected more than respected.
With that background I understand the sensitivity to the next and the next and the next shooting, whether justified or not.

Well stated................

[dbussone]

There were numerous reports of protesters cheering the NYPD officer murders, including on social media.

[graciegirl]

Blueash.

On your statement about black people being suspected rather than respected.

Making summary judgments according to statistics about groups of people happens all of the time.

Do you know why young drivers have higher insurance rates?

Sometimes the truth is VERY SAD.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

It is just that so many black lives are heading toward that confrontation that saddens me. WHY? Both Garner and Brown had broken the law and both resisted arrest. PLEASE don't forget that. People who are insane are shot. Remember the young woman near the White House a few years back who tried to ram her car through the White House gates? She had her children in the car and they killed her. She was mentally ill and I couldn't tell you what color she was. That is how it IS, Blueash. People need to know WHEN to STOP. Stop means stop and messing with an armed police officer could get you very dead. THE LAW HAS to be respected. I don't think Garner or Brown had anything to do with RACE.

Gracie, I think you are sweet and na�ve. Garner and Brown had a lot to do with race. Garner is an especially egregious example as most everyone agrees.

Bill OReilly:
" Mr. Garner clearly a low level offender was not a threat. American police are held to a very high standard because they have power. They have guns. They must control inflammatory situations not make them worse. "
Krauthammer:
the grand jury's decision here is totally incomprehensible. It looks as if at least they might have indicted him on something like involuntary manslaughter at the very least.

If the people on Fox see that the Garner case was an injustice then it certainly was an injustice.

This case might help you to understand how a black person might have fear of the cops. A well publicized case where a not perfect black person dies at the hands of a group of New York's finest for selling illegal cigarettes and there are not consequences. It looks like open season on black men

Gracie, how comfortable would you be walking around in Over the Rhine at 2 AM? Do you personally know anyone who has actually been harmed in OTR? Do you believe as a white woman that either your race or your gender might make you a target in that part of town? You have heard stories of people like you who did get hurt, robbed etc. So maybe you would be very leery of all the thousands of perfectly nice people who live in OTR because of the very few who might do you harm. I gather from your previous posts that you have had many very positive interactions with black people through the years. But now, you are distressed because there were some lack of smiles on your recent trip.

If you were a black man you can be absolutely certain that you would have had many negative interactions with police, storeowners, the stares of white people .. crossing to the other side of the street, following you in stores, stopping you for driving while black. You would be leery of cops even though you understood that they have a difficult job, you would still have more than a little discomfort when you saw one in your rear view mirror or one approached you on the street. Just like you are discomforted by the approach of a perfectly innocent black teen at 2 AM in OTR.
Our society is still very permeated by racism (sorry to all those who would deny it and don't want it pointed out). You noticed that black people didn't smile at you. You are racially aware as are we all, cops included.

The challenges faced by a black person are different and greater than those lucky enough to have been born white. I am given the benefit of the doubt when shopping, driving, interacting. Too often a black person is not. It is their reality not just a perception. I have no solution, I have no suggestion. I just try to understand why the black community can see institutional racism when so many white people cannot. Maybe it is the same for Jews being more sensitive to anti-Semitic comments and politics. Maybe it is the same for Muslims who get the permit for building a mosque turned down or find they are stared at in airports. Maybe it is the same when a black man standing at the valet desk outside a trendy restaurant awaiting his car is asked by the white man in line to go get that man's car assume that any black man at the stand must be a car parker. Sad to say racial consciousness pervades every interaction for all of us and the brunt of that truth is to detriment of black people.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by dbussone

There were numerous reports of protesters cheering the NYPD officer murders, including on social media.

Other than some tweets, please find me a "numerous report" of protesters cheering the deaths of cops? I cannot find any such reports Perhaps you have sources I have not identified? Tweets do not fit my idea of what constitutes a celebration. The term suggests people happily cheering in the streets. Find me that story. It may exist, I can't find it.