[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Police officers may KNOW a lot of things...but Most police officers I know do not bring up race, nor do they use foul language. They treat all people with dignity, unless they start to resist arrest. Most of them are not fixated on race, but aware of where the crime areas are and know the law. They are realists, not racists. They do not try to stir the pot but to pour oil on troubled waters. THAT is my experience with police officers that I know.

But...I personally do not have any dealings with them when they are on duty and I would like to keep it that way. I like being naïve and law abiding..

Oh, GracieGirl. It is quite a different experience you will see from when you have LEO's talking to law abiding citizens like yourself and what actually goes on in the real world around the trash and riff-raff. Neither myself, my wife or my son are racists; and consequently, we have always treated everyone we came in contact with the same respect they treated us. Was I and is my wife and son more aware and more observant when we had/have to go into certain areas more than others? Of course we were. But we didn't/don't pour fuel on the fire just to show our authority.

People in TV need to do a ride-along with a LEO just to get a little taste of what it's really like. It's sure not like what you see on C.S.I, Law and Order, etc., etc.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Jimturner

No offense mr ash but my point was when the pres said he could understand their anger, in my opinion, he gave them the ok to riot and loot.

And when you have had a disagreement with a loved one and said " I understand you are upset", should they take that as an invitation to escalate the problem or see it as an attempt to diffuse the situation. Can you understand the anger in the black community even if you don't agree with their point of view?

Here is the text from the press conference that is the source of that comment:

So let me close just saying a few words about the tensions there. We have all seen images of protestors and law enforcement in the streets. It's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting. What’s also clear is that a small minority of individuals are not. While I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of Michael Brown, giving into that anger by looting or carrying guns, and even attacking the police only serves to raise tensions and stir chaos. It undermines rather than advancing justice.

Let me also be clear that our constitutional rights to speak freely, to assemble, and to report in the press must be vigilantly safeguarded, especially in moments like these. There’s no excuse for excessive force by police or any action that denies people the right to protest peacefully. Ours is a nation of laws for the citizens who live under them and for the citizens who enforce them.

So to a community in Ferguson that is rightly hurting and looking for answers, let me call once again for us to seek some understanding rather than simply holler at each other. Let’s seek to heal rather than to wound each other. As Americans, we've got to use this moment to seek out our shared humanity that's been laid bare by this moment -- the potential of a young man and the sorrows of parents, the frustrations of a community, the ideals that we hold as one united American family. ...
I want to be clear about this, because sometimes I think there’s confusion around these issues and this dates back for decades. There are young black men that commit crime. And we can argue about why that happened -- because of the poverty they were born into and the lack of opportunity, or the schools systems that failed them, or what have you. But if they commit a crime, then they need to be prosecuted because every community has an interest in public safety. And if you go into the African American community or the Latino community, some of the folks who are most intent on making sure that criminals are dealt with are people who have been preyed upon by them."


And from that comment by Obama, people somehow conclude he is responsible for the cop killer? He clearly in the very same sentence in which he said he understood the anger, that he said that looting serves chaos and undermines justice.

[jimmemac]

Click on the 7 second video FIRST and then read what is below on this page.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...267356&fref=nf

This video is of actual Detectives attempting to stop a CRIMINAL in Chicago. This Video was taken by a Police Officer Videographer who, was also in harm's way.
WATCH the Video First... Two or Three Times if You Want... (and) THEN Read TheText Below...
DON'T READ UNTIL YOU WATCH THE VIDEO! Please remember these cops acted in real time.

THIS PERSON DOES GET SHOT BY THE DETECTIVES. THIS IS FOR REAL. Don't scroll down and read until you see this 8 sec. video.

WHAT DID YOU SEE???? Officers ordered the suspect to put the assault rifle down, and that is what he is doing, Right? it appears he is complying and then they shoot him! OMG, he is shot! Is that what you saw? Do you want to know what it is like to work the streets as a cop, and what risks our Officers face daily? Watch the video again... Watch the suspect's right hand while he places the rifle down with his left hand. What you don't see by facing this Criminal face to face, but the Officer behind the suspect does see, is the suspect pulling a hidden handgun from his rear pants, with his right hand - the back-up yells "Gun" before firing.

Watch as the bad guy goes down..... the handgun is still in his right hand. This is a reminder... What you think you see does not always tell the truth.

Watch it again, and learn! NOW, pass this on to EVERYONE on your email list, so they can do the same. It's time for Mr. and Mrs. Citizen as well as the Media have a better understanding of why people REALLY get shot and WHY our Officers are always in Jeopardy. Think I would rather try to ride a bull for 8 seconds, how about you?






--
God Bless

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Beechie

Just curious as to what part of my last paragraph were you at odds with blueash? Healing requires both the Police and the Black Community to accept their responsibilities moving forward. A Police Force deemed acceptable to the black community would not equate to the elimination of crime. Respect for the law and fair treatment of it's citizens would make this discussion go away but we need to be honest and leave our pride at the door in order to remedy.

Black leaders need to be honest about fixing the problems within their communities and get to the source of this systemic problem.

I would suggest that it is not the job of black leaders, whomever you think that means, to fix the problems. I think all of the ones you might name have been forthright about reducing single parenting, avoiding criminal acts, respecting the law and obeying police, staying off drugs. If you are not aware of what they have suggested, it is because those comments may not make it onto the MSM.

"We need fathers to recognize that responsibility doesn’t just end at conception. Too many fathers are M.I.A., too many fathers are AWOL, missing from too many lives and too many homes. They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.”
Mr. Obama, telling the mostly black audience not to “just sit in the house watching ‘SportsCenter,’ ” and to stop praising themselves for mediocre accomplishments.

“Don’t get carried away with that eighth-grade graduation,” he said, bringing many members of the congregation to their feet, applauding. “You’re supposed to graduate from eighth grade.”
We need families to raise our children,” he said at the service on Sunday. “We need fathers to recognize that responsibility doesn’t just end at conception. That doesn’t just make you a father. What makes you a man is not the ability to have a child. Any fool can have a child. That doesn’t make you a father. It’s the courage to raise a child that makes you a father"

And what has Sharpton said about the issues in the black inner city?

"We're making it fashionable to be down there on the floor, embracing it, and cool to be black and doing jail time. To be having eight kids from eight different baby mamas. I think that's sick.
I will always preach that black men must take responsibility for their children. I've never taught anyone that the inequality and unfairness they might face is an excuse or a justification not to do everything in their power to overcome. While women like my mother made sure that my generation was challenged by what we didn't have, now it seems to define us, limit us, break us"

Are these not clear calls for improvement in the black community? I know, you never saw this stuff. Is calling it "sick" strong enough for you?

And now that I've addressed your concern, I still await those statements you believe that "fanned the flames" to use your phrase.

[VT2TV]

Excellent video, shows exactly why police have to have a huge index of suspicion, and why they have to go with their gut sometimes. Unfortunately, there are rare occasions when they may be wrong, but if they hesitate even 1 second to question their gut, they are probably already dead. The criminals DO NOT play fair. You can criticize me if you want, but I would rather have them fire their guns than be fired upon. But again, it all goes back to ..if the suspected criminals would just listen to the police, and obey what the officer says, EVERYONE will stay alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blueash]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Congress passed a law just before they adjourned that requires all police departments in the country to report a shooting by one of their officers. Apparently these records were never kept or made public in the past. Now, at least, we will have accurate records on which to make a judgement.

The president's task force has 90 days to come up with recommendations. At that time, many changes will be made, including discontinuing the use of a grand jury and using a special prosecutor instead, IMO.

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

I am not finding any such law passed by this Congress. The closest is a reauthorization of a 2000 law that expired in 2006 and was never enforced which required reporting of deaths of people in custody.

https://www.congress.gov/congression...rticle/H8047-1
That law and this do not cover deaths of people who are not being arrested or in custody and there is nothing about reporting of non-lethal events or use of weapons by LEO.
"the death of any
person who is detained, under arrest, or is in the process of
being arrested, is en route to be incarcerated, or is
incarcerated "

The only thing new is a possible financial penalty for those agencies that fail to report their data. Under this law, the AG has two years to prepare a report to Congress for Congress to consider and decide upon what if any actions may be needed. There is no provision of a Presidential task force nor any 90 day deadline. Nor does this law have anything to do with grand juries or special prosecutors. It is aimed at improving the medical care, violence (inmate on inmate) and any other issues they may find. It has almost nothing to do with the issues of possible policing caused deaths. So what is the new law you mention?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

And when you have had a disagreement with a loved one and said " I understand you are upset", should they take that as an invitation to escalate the problem or see it as an attempt to diffuse the situation. Can you understand the anger in the black community even if you don't agree with their point of view?

Here is the text from the press conference that is the source of that comment:

So let me close just saying a few words about the tensions there. We have all seen images of protestors and law enforcement in the streets. It's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting. What’s also clear is that a small minority of individuals are not. While I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of Michael Brown, giving into that anger by looting or carrying guns, and even attacking the police only serves to raise tensions and stir chaos. It undermines rather than advancing justice.

Let me also be clear that our constitutional rights to speak freely, to assemble, and to report in the press must be vigilantly safeguarded, especially in moments like these. There’s no excuse for excessive force by police or any action that denies people the right to protest peacefully. Ours is a nation of laws for the citizens who live under them and for the citizens who enforce them.

So to a community in Ferguson that is rightly hurting and looking for answers, let me call once again for us to seek some understanding rather than simply holler at each other. Let’s seek to heal rather than to wound each other. As Americans, we've got to use this moment to seek out our shared humanity that's been laid bare by this moment -- the potential of a young man and the sorrows of parents, the frustrations of a community, the ideals that we hold as one united American family. ...
I want to be clear about this, because sometimes I think there’s confusion around these issues and this dates back for decades. There are young black men that commit crime. And we can argue about why that happened -- because of the poverty they were born into and the lack of opportunity, or the schools systems that failed them, or what have you. But if they commit a crime, then they need to be prosecuted because every community has an interest in public safety. And if you go into the African American community or the Latino community, some of the folks who are most intent on making sure that criminals are dealt with are people who have been preyed upon by them."


And from that comment by Obama, people somehow conclude he is responsible for the cop killer? He clearly in the very same sentence in which he said he understood the anger, that he said that looting serves chaos and undermines justice.

THAT comment by Obama could have been backed up with a lecture on following the orders of a police officer and a lecture on NOT breaking the law and that lecture could have been addressed to EVERYONE. He said that Trayvon Martin could have been his son. I understand his identification and sympathy, I think most of us do unless we truly are haters. But I believe that his comments WERE encouraging to many of the protestors. I think you believe that there are a lot of police that shoot to kill MORE when a person is black. I don't think it happens often. WHAT DOES HAPPEN way to often is that young black youth are crossways of the law more than young white youth are. Statistically.

I think what we should be doing and what President Obama should be doing is addressing the reasons WHY so many young black youth are crossways of the law. Being angry at the reasons WHY that is happening. Recognizing that young urban poor are breaking the law brings shame and more shame, but the shame is warranted.

We really had been heading in the right direction and now we are ALL heading in the other direction. You cannot legislate morality but you can stand as a leader and tell what is wrong and direct people to see when they are wrong. The last few speeches have been more emphatic about the grand jury being the way the law is written, but it wasn't emphatic ENOUGH. Too many protestors didn't hear it.

It is time for the young urban poor to have a good example. I think some of our new immigrants MAY be the good example. I am very tired of the excuses of so many to not do right. They are shaming all of the good people who have managed to rise above the awful prejudice and laws that segregated and held them back.

We can't change being white or black, but I feel that we have in place a reasonable law based fairness that would enable ALL people to make their way and support their families without breaking the law.

If you want to be rich in this country, no matter what your color is, you have to rise early and work hard and delay gratification and if that doesn't work, get another job and work harder. If people look down on you, prove them wrong.

I think that the majority of the population is pulling for the minority who has not been treated fairly in the past. We elected as a nation, a black president.

I think that the sympathy that the president showed has caused the problem to escalate and we are experiencing tensions that could escalate to a war between races.

Mrs. Obama could have chosen a better project than improving school lunches. She could have walked among the poor and talked to them about what she knows about being black in America and help encourage and direct them. Eleanor Roosevelt did just that kind of thing as first lady..

[Jimturner]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

THAT comment by Obama could have been backed up with a lecture on following the orders of a police officer and a lecture on NOT breaking the law and that lecture could have been addressed to EVERYONE. He said that Trayvon Martin could have been his son. I understand his identification and sympathy, I think most of us do unless we truly are haters. But I believe that his comments WERE encouraging to many of the protestors. I think you believe that there are a lot of police that shoot to kill MORE when a person is black. I don't think it happens often. WHAT DOES HAPPEN way to often is that young black youth are crossways of the law more than young white youth are. Statistically.

I think what we should be doing and what President Obama should be doing is addressing the reasons WHY so many young black youth are crossways of the law. Being angry at the reasons WHY that is happening. Recognizing that young urban poor are breaking the law brings shame and more shame, but the shame is warranted.

We really had been heading in the right direction and now we are ALL heading in the other direction. You cannot legislate morality but you can stand as a leader and tell what is wrong and direct people to see when they are wrong. The last few speeches have been more emphatic about the grand jury being the way the law is written, but it wasn't emphatic ENOUGH. Too many protestors didn't hear it.

It is time for the young urban poor to have a good example. I think some of our new immigrants MAY be the good example. I am very tired of the excuses of so many to not do right. They are shaming all of the good people who have managed to rise above the awful prejudice and laws that segregated and held them back.

We can't change being white or black, but I feel that we have in place a reasonable law based fairness that would enable ALL people to make their way and support their families without breaking the law.

If you want to be rich in this country, no matter what your color is, you have to rise early and work hard and delay gratification and if that doesn't work, get another job and work harder. If people look down on you, prove them wrong.

I think that the majority of the population is pulling for the minority who has not been treated fairly in the past. We elected as a nation, a black president.

I think that the sympathy that the president showed has caused the problem to escalate and we are experiencing tensions that could escalate to a war between races.

Mrs. Obama could have chosen a better project than improving school lunches. She could have walked among the poor and talked to them about what she knows about being black in America and help encourage and direct them. Eleanor Roosevelt did just that kind of thing as first lady..

Nice article. I would add that being overly politically correct is angering whites and is causing more devide. Everyone needs the whole truth, not the media spin.

[Taltarzac725]

I am a white, Anglo-Saxon male.

I remember going for an interview-- which they paid to fly me from O'hare near Chicago to Raleigh-Durham-- for a law librarian reference position around 1994 at North Carolina Central University's Law School. When I applied I was just applying to every opening in law librarianship there was not realizing that North Carolina Central University is primarily an African American school.

I found that out while researching for the interview.

When I got there, the man who picked me up from the airport could tell that I was a little worried. It was more about my 224 613 Project though and not going into a very unfamiliar place where I would become the minority and quickly. (My 224 613 Project was/is to improve the quality of materials accessible for survivors/victims of crimes in libraries through creating a dialog between victim/witness providers and librarians).

I never saw so many shades of black while at NCCU. My fears about my 224 613 Project were set aside too because Professor Fred Williams admitted to me that he had been a victim of crime and he taught Criminal Law.

I did not get the job or do well further in the interview process because the Law School Dean accused me of lying about supervising document retrieval on my resume to what seemed like the shock of the law librarian. Pretty much this is done by anyone with student employees who works on a reference desk in a busy library. Not lying but checking the work of students who are copying items requested over the phone or fax. It is like being a waiter and checking water glasses if they need refilling.

My points here are that racism is never simple. It seemed to me that darker shades of African Americans were sometimes the victims of prejudice when compared with those of lighter skin. And, vice versa as well. There did seem to be status groups at NCCU. Unfortunately for me, the Law Librarian who chose to fly me out at their expense was not high on the totem pole.

And, that people can lie, cheat, and manipulate no matter what their race if there are political forces at work. I was fighting some powerful forces with my 224 613 Project and seemed to make enemies who would do anything they could to deny me re-entry into the law librarianship profession. Many of these people were white, some black, some of some kind of undefined colors. I remember seeing a man who looked like a African American albino at NCCU Law School.

And I do think that racial thinking came into play with how they handled me at NCCU. They always made sure that there were some of the very few whites on their staff at the various functions I went to during my stay at NCCU. At the lunches, interviews, and from the man who picked me up at the airport. A Southern white gentleman who was one of the reference librarians. He did notice that I liked a little worried about coming to a very different place. I do think that they had a charming Southern white man pick me up at the airport assuming that I was of the same race.