[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by anothersteve

What Both Sides Don't Get About American Gun Culture - POLITICO Magazine

"The view of guns as neutral tools, a view shared by conservative defenders of gun rights as well as liberal advocates of gun regulation, misses a crucial fact about guns and gun ownership. It wrongly assumes that the distribution of guns and their presence in their owners' lives are totally independent facts that don't shape the opportunities and choices of the people who use them.

But increasingly, research into the culture and political views of gun owners is painting a very different portrait. Gun owners' politics don't generally fall into lockstep with the NRA—but guns themselves are woven into people's lives in ways that go far beyond a tool. This suggests that the path to gun law reform won’t be as simple as liberals might hope or conservatives might fear."

"One of the most authoritative and interesting surveys of the attitudes of gun owners was conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2017. That survey shows the vast majority of Americans who own guns are not members of the NRA and that most favor some form of gun control. However, most refrain from pushing for greater regulation of guns because they neither trust the government nor believe that it will protect them. They often resent the disdain for their way of life of the kind expressed by President Barack Obama when he suggested they “cling to guns or religion” as a way of expressing “antipathy to people who aren't like them … as a way to explain their frustrations." They see themselves as on their own in a dangerous world."

The demographics of gun ownership in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

Steve

Thank you for making my point...much appreciated.

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

The truth of the matter is, that the NRA and gun-nuts will do everything possible...


...to stand up to the insanity of the ingrained gun culture in this country.

P.S. And by no means should my label of "gun-nuts" be applied to all who own weapons. That designation is reserved for those who put any regulation of guns...above the lives of innocent children and the public.

I mean for cripes sake, discounting the insane scumbags who claimed that Sandy Hook never even happened, if next to nothing of consequence was accomplished after THAT atrocity...what chance does any other tragedy have of changing the gun-nut's minds?

[anothersteve]

"but guns themselves are woven into people's lives in ways that go far beyond a tool."

That's all you took in from those two links?

Steve

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by anothersteve

"but guns themselves are woven into people's lives in ways that go far beyond a tool."

That's all you took in from those two links?

Steve

Nope.

Unlike a lot of people here who eschew links in general (quite likely because they haven't figured out how to even provide them ) and others who seldom read them anyway, I almost always take the time to read links provided (a believer of 'never miss an opportunity to increase one's knowledge')...in their entirety.

But instead of taking every single item that I agreed with/supported my own view(s), or even the opinions that I disagree with, I simply highlighted that portion of your post...that went straight to the crux of the issue.

[Taltarzac725]

How many hunters in the US use an assault rifle for hunting? - Quora

Found this interesting.

I grew up around a lot of friends who loved guns in Reno, Nevada. I had two shotguns and two 22s. A single shot 22 and a lever action Winchester like 22.

Used to hunt rattlesnakes around Rattlesnake Mountain in Reno, Nevada with a few friends but was never very good as I would take the rear in the line and "accidentally" bump into rocks. Boy was I clumsy.

The friends I went hunting with had a lot of rattlesnake skins tacked up in their bed rooms. I had Playboy centerfolds at around 13 or 14.

I gave up the friends after one of them shot me in the left picky with a BB gun. He had been pointing it at my eye but I persuaded him to try to shoot between my fingers. He missed. But I had had enough of these "friends" who were very much into the hunting tradition.

They did eat the rattlesnakes they killed.

[Trayderjoe]

I was listening to a discussion that indicated that juvenile records are sealed and/or expunged and thus the current background checks for firearms purchases would not include juvenile records. A juvenile could have committed a crime (or crimes) which would prohibit owning or purchasing a firearm when similar crimes committed by an adult would be flagged.

Should this be true, then all rules that block access to these records should be evaluated, so that firearm purchase background checks can access these records. Perhaps a "first pass" compromise for those who want to keep all juvenile records sealed would be to access personal versus property crimes.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe

I was listening to a discussion that indicated that juvenile records are sealed and/or expunged and thus the current background checks for firearms purchases would not include juvenile records. A juvenile could have committed a crime (or crimes) which would prohibit owning or purchasing a firearm when similar crimes committed by an adult would be flagged.

Should this be true, then all rules that block access to these records should be evaluated, so that firearm purchase background checks can access these records. Perhaps a "first pass" compromise for those who want to keep all juvenile records sealed would be to access personal versus property crimes.

There should be a lot of due process in these kind of matters and not broad bumper sticker like policies. Some kids get in with the wrong crowd and then turn over a new leaf. That certainly happened with me and my older brother in Reno, Nevada. I got away from my teen friends because they were too violent for my taste and surrounded myself with books. Then met an English teacher who challenged me to read the classics and the like and gave me a small Memorial Scholarship in her murdered daughter's name-- the Michelle Mitchell Memorial Scholarship. Some of my classmates in her English class and others at Earl Wooster HS were suspects in her murder which was not solved until 1979. It happened on my birthday of 2-24 in 1976. The police were interested in part with Earl Wooster HS students because a Earl Wooster HS student had committed a heinous murder in 1963 of a British skiing instructor Olympic athlete. I guess they thought history might be repeating itself. At least, some of us saw it that way. Both of these killings were with knives.

And it turned out that they got the wrong person in 1979 because of her false confession and the Reno, Nevada community's need to get this case closed. They did identify the most probable culprit in 2014. After the mentally ill woman was behind bars in a mental ward for 35 years.

Context is important and not painting with a too broad a brush. But mistakes are still made but fortunately not that often.

[Midnight Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

I finally read something that seems to make a lot of sense to me as a very reasonable idea to help prevent future mass shootings. The White House has instructed the Department of Justice to work with large internet social media companies such as Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, to develop tools to help identify potential mass murders BEFORE they commit a horrible crime. With the benefit of hindsight, it has been conclusively demonstrated that almost all mass murderers (over the last few years) have had a very strong social media presence including tell tale posts indicative of their intensions.

I had mentioned this same thing many, many comments before this one.

I think the public has to be aware of these problematic posts by others that seem to sound a little strange and should be reported to authorities also.

With so many of us on social media sites, the public could easily spot a comment that needs to be reported.

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

There should be a lot of due process in these kind of matters and not broad bumper sticker like policies. Some kids get in with the wrong crowd and then turn over a turn leaf. That certainly happened with me and my older brother in Reno, Nevada. I got away from my teen friends because they were too violent for my taste and surrounded myself with books. Then met an English teacher who challenged me to read the classics and the like and gave me a small Memorial Scholarship in her murdered daughter's name-- the Michelle Mitchell Memorial Scholarship. Some of my classmates in her English class and others at Earl Wooster HS were suspects in her murder which was not solved until 1979. It happened on my birthday of 2-24 in 1976. The police were interested in part with Earl Wooster HS students because a Earl Wooster HS student had committed a heinous murder in 1963 of a British skiing instructor Olympic athlete. I guess they thought history might be repeating itself. At least, some of us saw it that way. Both of these killings were with knives.

And it turned out that they got the wrong person in 1979 because of her false confession and the Reno, Nevada community's need to get this case closed. They did identify the most probably culprit in 2014. After the mentally ill woman was behind bars in a mental ward for 35 years.

Context is important and not painting with a too broad a brush. But mistakes are still made but fortunately not that often.

I agree that a broad brush should not be applied, nor did I suggest it. However, where there is a clear criminal history involving crimes against a person (think robbery, assault, etc.) by a juvenile, then that should be considered when that juvenile becomes an adult if they are trying to purchase a firearm. I specifically parsed out the "property" crimes as an example of a "quick" compromise.

Overall, we still have to understand why we have a violence problem, and when someone has such a track record as a juvenile, it should not be expunged or erased from consideration once they become an adult IF they choose to own a firearm in particular.

I wouldn't leave this to politicians to decide the how, clearly the appropriate people need to be identified to put together an appropriate plan.

Will the system be perfect? Probably not, but then again, we do need to do something to keep firearms away from people who should not be in possession of them.

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl

I had mentioned this same thing many, many comments before this one.

I think the public has to be aware of these problematic posts by others that seem to sound a little strange and should be reported to authorities also.

With so many of us on social media sites, the public could easily spot a comment that needs to be reported.

Agreed. What concerns me is what we hear from people about a mass shooter AFTER such a horrible act. I forget which shooter, but a former friend indicated that AFTER A GUN WAS HELD TO HIS HEAD he stopped being friends with the murderer. Why was this not reported? And if it was, why was it not acted upon? We have also heard from school mates about rape and murder lists. One person claimed she and her mother reported a concern to the school system and nothing happened. Are these people making this stuff up for "15 minutes of fame" or did any/all of these events really happen? I keep hearing if "you see something, say something". Does this really need to be qualified to indicate that you say something BEFORE a murder?

[Midnight Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe

Agreed. What concerns me is what we hear from people about a mass shooter AFTER such a horrible act. I forget which shooter, but a former friend indicated that AFTER A GUN WAS HELD TO HIS HEAD he stopped being friends with the murderer. Why was this not reported? And if it was, why was it not acted upon? We have also heard from school mates about rape and murder lists. One person claimed she and her mother reported a concern to the school system and nothing happened. Are these people making this stuff up for "15 minutes of fame" or did any/all of these events really happen? I keep hearing if "you see something, say something". Dve just happened,,oes this really need to be qualified to indicate that you say something BEFORE a murder?

I think when someone hears or reads something that may sound a little strange, they don't realize the severity of the words until something bad happens.

I do believe that now -- in light of all the things that have just happened, we all are more aware and on guard.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe

Agreed. What concerns me is what we hear from people about a mass shooter AFTER such a horrible act. I forget which shooter, but a former friend indicated that AFTER A GUN WAS HELD TO HIS HEAD he stopped being friends with the murderer. Why was this not reported? And if it was, why was it not acted upon?

We have also heard from school mates about rape and murder lists. One person claimed she and her mother reported a concern to the school system and nothing happened.

Are these people making this stuff up for "15 minutes of fame" or did any/all of these events really happen? I keep hearing if "you see something, say something". Does this really need to be qualified to indicate that you say something BEFORE a murder?

Good questions!
It's incredible to read about these red flags that happened prior to the mass murders.

[Nucky]

I'm waiting for a post from Carl In Tampa. Many people in our Community with Law Enforcement Backgrounds may have different ideas or thoughts than many of our regular people. This Thread has been Fantastic with many Great Ideas but Unfortunately IMHO The Horse Is Out Of The Barn.

I hope many of the possible remedies mentioned and those we haven't heard can be melded into a real solution ASAP. I hope the Rhetoric from everyone will calm down. I can only do something about me so I'll be the first to as my kids say, Chill Out!

I mean to be strickly constructive with my post. Don't spin it, please.

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl

I think when someone hears or reads something that may sound a little strange, they don't realize the severity of the words until something bad happens.

I do believe that now -- in light of all the things that have just happened, we all are more aware and on guard.

You mean maybe something like this?

Mother of El Paso shooter Patrick Crusius called police about son owning assault rifle: Lawyers - ABC News

Steve

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by anothersteve

You mean maybe something like this?
Mother of El Paso shooter Patrick Crusius called police about son owning assault rifle: Lawyers - ABC News Steve

Wow.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

He's 21, has no record or history of criminal activity, therefore he is legally allowed to purchase and possess an AR-15. The bar is set pretty low for gun ownership. The standards are lower than those for driving a car. No one should be surprised by this, at all. Angry, yes. Surprise, no.