[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Maker

What happens because of other animals and insects is not relevant to alligators. If you have a problem with those, start a thread about them.

In accident investigations, when there are "near misses" that have happened, it is a leading indicator that something worse is likely to happen in the future unless corrective action is taken now. I'm sure the neighbors around the 95y woman that got killed also said it would never happen. Then it did happen. I don't buy into the "it will never happen" concept, when it already has happened. We have the choice to make things safer, or wait for another incident.

The woman was 85 according to reports, not 95. Details matter.

OK, you don't want to talk about the absence of alligator deaths in the Villages, so how about some reports of near misses in the Villages? List a few of those near misses, and make sure they didn't happen when someone wandered OFF the pathway and towards the water's edge.

In the one interview I heard with a neighbor of the 85yo, the neighbor couldn't understand why the woman would walk her dog near the water like that. I didn't hear anyone say it would never happen. But if you did, please post a link.

"Another incident?" In the Villages it will be the FIRST incident.

It WILL happen again. Someone WILL choose to go into or near alligator-infested waters and the alligator will do what alligators do. it will have been 100% avoidable if the HUMAN had made a different choice.

Put some thought into it and be honest: You want to kill the alligators because of your irrational fear of them.

[Normal]

This post smells of someone conflating everything to make it seem like it happened right here in the Villages even though the said attack happened nowhere near our Spanish Springs or the Villages in general.

There have of course been zero attacks or deaths here in the Villages. However, there has been a large introduction of people not native to this area. Hopefully the Villages keeps it up with an incredibly great safety record!

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

The woman was 85 according to reports, not 95.
be honest: You want to kill the alligators because of your irrational fear of them.

Sorry, typo. 85 is right. An alligator killed a 85y human.

My fear? That's just stupid fiction. Grow up. Come up with a new insult.

OSHA does things to make work places safer as a result of learning new information from near miss incidents.
NHTSA makes laws about vehicle design to make things safer as a result of learning new information about accidents.
We have a way to make things safer. To ignore that is foolish.

The is no reason to believe removing the alligators here would not make this area safer. You have not said anything to refute that. It certainly wouldn't make it more risky.

I think you just want to argue. How long have you been a PETA member?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Maker

Sorry, typo. 85 is right. An alligator killed a 85y human.

My fear? That's just stupid fiction. Grow up. Come up with a new insult.

OSHA does things to make work places safer as a result of learning new information from near miss incidents.
NHTSA makes laws about vehicle design to make things safer as a result of learning new information about accidents.
We have a way to make things safer. To ignore that is foolish.

The is no reason to believe removing the alligators here would not make this area safer. You have not said anything to refute that. It certainly wouldn't make it more risky.

I think you just want to argue. How long have you been a PETA member?

If not irrational fear then what is it? Do you just hate alligators? They aren't bothering you and won't bother you unless you encroach on them. There are many places to swim in the Villages besides the retention ponds. I don't believe there has ever been an alligator attack in the Villages, much less on one of the paths. There is no rational reason to fear the alligators in the ponds yet you seem insistent on killing them. If not irrational fear then what is it?

If you want to change the subject and start talking about workplace fatalities or roadway fatalities we can do that but I guarantee there are FAR more of those than there are deaths caused by alligators.

The reason to believe that removing the alligators here would not make the area safer is the lack of any data showing the area is unsafe now.

"Doctor, it hurts when I hit my hand with a hammer."
"Well then, stop hitting your hand with a hammer."

Alligators can be deadly if you go wading or swimming in Florida ponds or stand at the edge of a pond while an alligator approaches. Well then, stay away from the edge of the ponds.

When people chose to do foolish things at the pond near Brownwood the alligator was removed and fences were erected. There are a lot more fences around the Villages now than there were four years ago. Perhaps the Villages have acted to make things safer...by making it more difficult for people to do foolish things. But it is impossible to make anything foolproof, there is always a bigger fool around.

How long have I been a PETA member? Never was, most likely never will be. It's funny that you believe that one needs to be a member of PETA to enjoy nature and to oppose the senseless killing of animals.

[Normal]

I remember coming down to Florida’s Disney World and swimming at their huge lake when it was called River Country. The gators didn’t bother me then (and there were some) and they don’t bother me now. Get a life and live it I say.

[Maker]

So if alligators never are a danger to attack, perhaps you might want to watch a replay of On Patrol Live from Sat 3/4
In Daytona Beach, a man came out of his house and there was an alligator on his porch. The man had no reason to do such a "foolish thing". He was bit bad enough to need to go to a hospital. Lucky to be alive because the alligator was likely startled. Had it been looking for a human meal, the guy would be dead.
Police called a trapper and the alligator was shot dead on live television. The reason - they are a danger to people.

But... Only stupid people have to worry? It never happens? Irrational fear?
Sure... keep saying that.

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Maker

So if alligators never are a danger to attack, perhaps you might want to watch a replay of On Patrol Live from Sat 3/4
In Daytona Beach, a man came out of his house and there was an alligator on his porch. The man had no reason to do such a "foolish thing". He was bit bad enough to need to go to a hospital. Lucky to be alive because the alligator was likely startled. Had it been looking for a human meal, the guy would be dead.
Police called a trapper and the alligator was shot dead on live television. The reason - they are a danger to people.

But... Only stupid people have to worry? It never happens? Irrational fear?
Sure... keep saying that.

Like car accidents (Wait, those happen a whole lot more), stove top fires (Wait, those happen a whole lot more) falling off of a ladder at home (Wait, that happens a whole lot more), dog bites (Wait, those happen a whole lot more) and choking on food (Wait, that happens a whole lot more), ingrown toenails…

I recommend the next time you see the gator you can’t stand: jump in with a Bowie knife, wrestle the culprit, gut it, skin it on shore, leave it out to dry, use the bones for a fire, slow cook the meat and eat it slowly staring down all other trespassing varmints while you relax on shore…. It will be a warning to all those coming for you.

Never run from fear or it can get you from behind, always look towards danger so you know how to react.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Normal

This post smells of someone conflating everything to make it seem like it happened right here in the Villages even though the said attack happened nowhere near our Spanish Springs or the Villages in general.

There have of course been zero attacks or deaths here in the Villages. However, there has been a large introduction of people not native to this area. Hopefully the Villages keeps it up with an incredibly great safety record!

What exactly is The Villages doing to keep everyone safe from gator attacks? Seems like nothing to me if gators can arrive at your front door and can sun themselves in full view of anyone who can see.

I lived in a master planned community in south Florida for several years and our home was on a very large man made lake which was part of the water management system. There were zero gators in our lakes/ponds because the pipes had large grates to keep gators out. I lived in the community for 11 years (five years on that beautiful lake) and never saw one gator. It can be done.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

What exactly is The Villages doing to keep everyone safe from gator attacks? Seems like nothing to me if gators can arrive at your front door and can sun themselves in full view of anyone who can see.

I lived in a master planned community in south Florida for several years and our home was on a very large man made lake which was part of the water management system. There were zero gators in our lakes/ponds because the pipes had large grates to keep gators out. I lived in the community for 11 years (five years on that beautiful lake) and never saw one gator. It can be done.

Alligators are sunning themselves at your front door by swimming through the pipes?????

How many alligators have you seen at your front door?

Given your (and other's) concerns, perhaps that master planned community in South Florida is a better fit for you?

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Maker

So if alligators never are a danger to attack, perhaps you might want to watch a replay of On Patrol Live from Sat 3/4
In Daytona Beach, a man came out of his house and there was an alligator on his porch. The man had no reason to do such a "foolish thing". He was bit bad enough to need to go to a hospital. Lucky to be alive because the alligator was likely startled. Had it been looking for a human meal, the guy would be dead.
Police called a trapper and the alligator was shot dead on live television. The reason - they are a danger to people.

But... Only stupid people have to worry? It never happens? Irrational fear?
Sure... keep saying that.

I did not see that bit of "entertainment " programming. From what you describe, the person stepped out without checking his surroundings and walked blindly into a dangerous situation. It could have been any kind of animal, gator, snake, coyote, dog, or human. There was time for police to be called, for the police to call a trapper to analyze the situation before deciding on a course of action. Since the person, obviously not aware of the surroundings and the presence of the gator, startled the lost and confused gator and was, unfortunately, bitten, you feel this incident justifies the complete eradication of one of nature's most successful and long surviving species. WOW!
Rationalize this! Similar situation: In my garden I was unaware that a neighbor's large lab was running in my direction. The dog (could have been a gator, but in this instance it was a dog) jumped me and bit and bloodied me. By your thinking, I should be demanding the distruction and eradication of all dogs, right?
(PS, I still love dogs and alligators. Still want them in my world.)

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Given your (and other's) concerns, perhaps that master planned community in South Florida is a better fit for you?

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

I have yet to hear an articulated reason why it is SAFER to leave alligators as is, instead of removing them (here, in TV). State the reason why removing them would be less safe. How leaving them reduces the possibility of an attack. Oh, you can't; that's why.

Removing them reduces, or eliminates, the risk of an attack. No matter what actions a person, child, pet, or uneducated visitor takes. That is what humans do - make things safer for everyone's greater good.
It's wonderful that you are a brilliant person that has never had any accidents happen throughout your life. Not all are as fortunate. If you did have an accident, perhaps in a car, or with a saw, or a knife, or a broken bone... wouldn't it be better if something was done before that happened to completely prevent it?

Just discuss ALLIGATORS. Not interested in deflections to bugs, cars, dogs, etc. Not my "fears" lol or needs. Not blaming "stupid" people. Not telling people to move. Not fires, ladders, or <<anything>> else.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Maker

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

I have yet to hear an articulated reason why it is SAFER to leave alligators as is, instead of removing them (here, in TV). State the reason why removing them would be less safe. How leaving them reduces the possibility of an attack. Oh, you can't; that's why.

Removing them reduces, or eliminates, the risk of an attack. No matter what actions a person, child, pet, or uneducated visitor takes. That is what humans do - make things safer for everyone's greater good.
It's wonderful that you are a brilliant person that has never had any accidents happen throughout your life. Not all are as fortunate. If you did have an accident, perhaps in a car, or with a saw, or a knife, or a broken bone... wouldn't it be better if something was done before that happened to completely prevent it?

Just discuss ALLIGATORS. Not interested in deflections to bugs, cars, dogs, etc. Not my "fears" lol or needs. Not blaming "stupid" people. Not telling people to move. Not fires, ladders, or <<anything>> else.

How can you limit this discussion to just alligators when there are so many other things that are statistically so much more dangerous? Alligator attacks in The Villages are pretty much nonexistent. Where as there are plenty of other dangers that actually happen on a regular basis. Why not tackle the things that are proven hazards in The Villages then once you fix them you can start working on the smaller things. You can’t live your life in fear.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Maker

Maybe you should move to a swamp. You wold see lots of alligators. Then the rest of us can make our homes safer here for us, our family, and visitors.
Nobody expects to step onto their porch and have an alligator hiding there. It never happened to him before, and listening to your excuses, he was stupid, foolish, and should have known better. Hogwash. That's the exact type of way accidents happen - when a combination of conditions come together exactly right... dark, location, timing, something unexpected, past history, alertness, distractions.

We cannot do anything other than remove the gators here that would be as effective preventing an attack or killing.

....

Maybe I should move??? That makes no sense at all. I like it here, just the way was when I moved here, just the way it is now. If you don't like it here then there are other places to be. I, and others, do like it here. If you are afraid to live here then there are other places to live. I, and others, are not afraid. Why did you move to Florida if you are so afraid of Florida? Why did you move here and expect "here" to change to suit you?

Nobody expects.... So far only one person has experienced and he didn't live in the Villages. A couple others have pictures due to their ring cameras. Let's kill all the alligators because one was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And yes, if the individual had turned on a light and looked first they would have seen the alligator, grabbed their phone, taken a picture, and delighted their friends. They didn't do that. They got bit and the alligator got killed.

We CAN do something more effective than removing the alligators, we can learn from your reality show and be more aware of our surroundings. We can look for alligators or snakes or dogs or raccoons or panthers before stepping onto a dark porch. We can stay back from the edge of the water. We can simply be more alert.

Killing the one alligator that bit the 85 year old woman or the three others from that development or the one from Daytona Beach or even all those in the Villages is only a temporary fix. The alligator was removed from the pond at Brownwood a few years ago and now another has taken its place. This is Florida, there are alligators, learn to live with them or live somewhere else.

And as I and others have pointed out, you have the wrong focus. Dogs cause 90 times more deaths than alligators and mosquitoes cause even more. There are around 800 deaths due to automobiles every week (100,000 TIMES more than alligators) yet I bet you rode in a car or bicycled on a road or went for a walk at least once in the last week. If it is human life you care about then spend some time fighting to save 100+ people from dog deaths or 100,000+ people from car deaths that are likely to happen before you hear of another death caused by an alligator.

[Rainger99]

They don’t always stay in the water!

A Florida homeowner opened his front door. He was bitten by an alligator.

[Rainger99]

They don’t always stay in the water!

A Florida homeowner opened his front door. He was bitten by an alligator.