[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by phylt

OK... so let's let SERVICES make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, computer chips, etc etc. Our core manufacturing has been so depleted over the decades.
...

Originally Posted by phylt

What??? There is a CLEAR LINE between SERVICES and MANUFACTURING.

I do not understand the argument.

?????

...

Yes, there is a clear line between services and manufacturing but you seem to have missed it when you insist that services should make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, etc.

[Johnsocat]

Originally Posted by Ralph Cramdon

It’s fascinating how often people blame China for the loss of U.S. jobs, rather than the companies that chose to move operations there in pursuit of higher profits.

It's funny how people blame the greed of companies when the U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, and tons of bureaucratic red tape and regulations which makes it cost prohibitive to do business here.

[Johnsocat]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

"take advantage of" == "sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

"Stop allowing other countries to take advantage of us" ->
"Stop allowing other countries to sell products at prices US consumers want to pay"

Free trade = Capitolism = competition = fair prices

[Johnsocat]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

You seem to be confusing a few different concepts.

- Zero tariffs would be nice. There might be a good reason to have a specific, non-zero tariff but that would be on a case-by-case basis

- A trade imbalance can be an indication of supply and demand, not unfair practices. The US will ALWAYS have trade imbalance on bananas and will ALWAYS have a trade imbalance with Lesotho. The former is because the US does not grow bananas (at least not in quantity) so we will always import more than we export. The latter is because Lesotho is a particularly poor country that exports diamonds and there is no way that they will ever import as much product from the US as they export diamonds to us.

- By "trumped up taxes" do you mean the current criticism of VAT? If products manufactured in their country are charged a VAT when sold then how is it a "trumped up tax" if products imported to their country are charged the same tax? Should a country only tax only homegrown products and not imports? Does it feel like a "trumped up tax" when Florida charges sales tax on imported products? Should Florida only charge sales tax on US-made products and not imported products?

- How is the US "carrying the world?" The US Govt isn't spending a lot of money on bananas or diamonds or iPhones or imported autos, the US citizen consumer is. How does my buying an iPhone translate to the US Govt carrying the world?

If there are unreasonable barriers to trade then absolutely, fix those. A disparity in wealth or in population (there are more of us to buy things) or a higher standard of living (our wage rate is higher and taxes are lower) are not trade barriers that should be defeated, they are successes that should be celebrated.

The U.S. carries the world is true.
We may need to import bananas and diamonds, but we in turn export what they cannot grow or produce. Fair enough, right?
Here is the crux, they tariff our goods at enormous rates, while their imports to the U.S. are tariffs at much lower rates.
Just look at the worldwide panic when Trump said he was going to raise our tariffs on them to HALF of what they have been tariffing us.
Huge imbalance which equates to huge trade deficits for us and massive trade profits for the world.

[Johnsocat]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

I agree. And, it isn't only the Chinese. "We" seem to be going out of our way to anger everyone.

We need to bring production of vital goods and resources back to our shores from a National Security standpoint.
We have zero lead smelting plants and only one company that makes primers... in other words we are hard pressed to make bullets.
Shortage of steel and aluminum plants affect our ability to build ships, planes and vehicles we would need in the event of war.
Foreign parts and chips are required for many vital products we need.
We cannot achieve peace through strength without the ability to arm and resupply our militaries.

[Sgt Ed]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

In the 80s US companies went to China to get cheap labor AND US companies wanted to get away from UNIONS. So, that made the US middle class weaker and poorer. What fine PATRIOTS they are.

Patriots have nothing to do with it. Unions are the most guilty. Originally the UNIONS served a good purpose, but they got greedy, and have outlived their intended purpose. Union officials really got greedy. no wonder corporations went to China, they had to just to get competitive. Then too, the government didn't help with the tax system. You wonder why German products are so expensive, look at their manufacturing set up. They tax the poor man to death just to pay for their social system including once a German, always a German. When the wall came down, West Germany bout went broke paying the East Germans. This rant just goes to show there is more than 1 thing that needs addressed to get out of the current pickle jar.
BTW, with the current situation, what system did the government use to decide that Boeing get the F-47 contract, with all the past screw ups. Lately everything Boeing touches turn to sh--. KC-46, New AF 1, Space capsule, and the list goes on. North-Gruman has a much better record, and the newest part of the F-47 they designed and have to give it to Boeing to screw up. When will it all end?

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

The above was cut & pasted (without attribution) from an advertising site that promotes their Online Marketplace.

Hardly credible information.

21 Benefits Of USA Manufacturing | Maker's Row

Maker's Row - Wikipedia

I made that post. So now on TOTV we must attribute a source on a cut/paste of an article or such researched by the poster? I am not doing a Doctoral Thesis here. Simply providing my opinion of the topic and using material as a resource. Why is this Hardly Credible Information? Simply because you may not agree? That makes it not credible???

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Johnsocat

The U.S. carries the world is true.
We may need to import bananas and diamonds, but we in turn export what they cannot grow or produce. Fair enough, right?
Here is the crux, they tariff our goods at enormous rates, while their imports to the U.S. are tariffs at much lower rates.
Just look at the worldwide panic when Trump said he was going to raise our tariffs on them to HALF of what they have been tariffing us.
Huge imbalance which equates to huge trade deficits for us and massive trade profits for the world.

Not at all what was done. The tariffs the US recently implemented and then paused were in no way based on the tariffs other countries imposed. Look at the equation for calculating those tariffs and you will see that the foreign tariffs are never included. That is one of the major criticisms of what was done.

Those tariffs were calculated at one half of the percentage of the trade imbalance between the countries. Not a tariff imbalance but the trade imbalance. A large, rich country importing from a small, poor country will result in a trade imbalance even with a 0% tariff. There is nothing the poor country can do to lower its tariff below 0% yet it is being tariffed all the same.

If a country is imposing a 0% tariff now then the only way to reduce the "reciprocal" tariffs is by reducing US import. Sure, this will hurt the source country but there is nothing they can do. It will also hurt the US consumer by raising the price of the desired product to the point it is no longer affordable.

And even if the "reciprocal" tariffs are removed as they have been for the 90 day pause, there are still the 10% across the board, just-because-we-can tariffs.

[Johnsocat]

Originally Posted by Danube

Exactly. And more and more US media and most people in the federal gov't are calling for war.

What??? Who exactly are calling for war?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by phylt

...

21 Advantages of Manufacturing in the United States

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

I made that post. So now on TOTV we must attribute a source on a cut/paste of an article or such researched by the poster? I am not doing a Doctoral Thesis here. Simply providing my opinion of the topic and using material as a resource. Why is this Hardly Credible Information? Simply because you may not agree? That makes it not credible???

Interesting.. It looks like phylt made that post unless you are stating that you have two logins to ToTV?

I need to find the ToTV terms of service again. I believe they mentioned posting copyrighted material and I'm sure they mentioned multiple accounts.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Do you blame the companies for moving in pursuit of higher profits, or the laws and regulations that prohibit the companies from making the same profits operating domestically?

I blame the US for allowing them to relocate to AVOID US laws that protect workers that wanted to UNIONIZE. They were running away from UNIONS because the Companies were OVERLY GREEDY and wanted to avoid safety regulations in the USA. The result was US children DYING from lead poison from paint. Then US money built up China into a SUPERPOWER militarily, which now challenges the US. Wasn't that wonderful? We made the MONSTER than can now turn on us. Wasn't that brilliant? if you take into consideration that we pay the shipping cost for China's large ocean ships. And the cost of LOST US manufacturing and that knowledge of manufacturing. Then you consider the BIG cost of China stealing our secrets, you see that trading with China has helped THEM, but not the US of A. We succeeded in creating an enemy. We should have concentrated on trade with Canada and other countries that we can TRUST.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Yes, there is a clear line between services and manufacturing but you seem to have missed it when you insist that services should make our steel, cars, pharmaceuticals, etc.

???? I was asking a question, like tongue in cheek. Yikes…

[Johnsocat]

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

There's a reason why Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world, the cheap prices. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, they are not able to spend for made in America goods. Imagine how much a t-shirt will cost if the people sewing it are making 20.00 an hour.

All this chaos for billionaires, while the middle class gets poorer.

Right. It's so much better to buy from countries who don't pay a living wage, or worse use slave labor to produce the goods they export. All the while undercutting the U.S. workers and businesses.
Additionally, many of these countries have human rights violations and a carbon footprint bigger than Bigfoot's.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Companies moved there, because Americans were demanding lower priced goods.`

American consumers are responsible for businesses moving overseas and government is responsible for allowing it to happen.

Why blame "business"? If people stopped buying Chinese made goods, China would be in ruins and all those businesses would be coming back to the USA.

The US government SHOULD have stopped OUTSOURCING in its tracks when it started (probably way back in the 1970s). Which coincidentally (maybe, maybe not) was the period where the middle class started to become weak and when tax policy began to favor the RICH. Tax policy that favors the RICH will eventually turn America into a Dictatorship.

[Johnsocat]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

The above was cut & pasted (without attribution) from an advertising site that promotes their Online Marketplace.

Hardly credible information.

21 Benefits Of USA Manufacturing | Maker's Row

Maker's Row - Wikipedia

Doesn't make it wrong.