[graciegirl]

This is a nice group, the largest senior chorus in the U.S. singing Hallelujah.

Our Village Voices.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdvxrv71RjE[/ame]

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

This is a nice group, the largest senior chorus in the U.S. singing Hallelujah.

Our Village Voices.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdvxrv71RjE[/ame]

Lovely. Thank you.

[tedquick]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

This is a nice group, the largest senior chorus in the U.S. singing Hallelujah.

Our Village Voices.

The Village Voices Conducted by Dr. Sandra Willetts - YouTube

Extraordinary!! Thank you over and over again. Now I must see them in person.

[onslowe]

Magnificent. Thank you, Gracie.

By the way, my church, St George Anglican, SE 28th Street (off SR 35 Baseline Road)is hosting a free program of Gregorian Chant on Saturday, December 13th at 4p.m. It is a concert performed by the wonderful Florida Pro Musica of Tampa.

There will be a wine and cheese reception afterwards with the members of the schola.

The church address is 5646 SE 28th Street, Ocala. This is not a religious service as such, but rather a concert based upon a religious service. It is an opportunity to just close your eyes and relax and meditate as you choose.

[sunnyatlast]

I think we all understand that when these believers in Christ the promised Messiah were saved and blessed for their unwavering faith, they were not reading the New Testament, much less the King James Version of it. (see first link below)

God is fully capable of preserving His word and interpreting it thru His Spirit speaking to readers' and hearers' souls, for all those who seek Him and submit to His unique authority spoken thru the scriptures.

There is great promise and hope for all who died believing in Christ, and for those who believe Him when He returns to take all believers to our eternal home in God's presence. (see second link)

Hebrews 11 - Faith in Action
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=NIV

1 Thessalonians 4 - Believers who have died, and believers who are alive when Christ comes again:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+4&version=NIV

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Some years ago I found in my local library a fascinating book entitled "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" authored by an Episcopal Bishop, John Shelby Spong. John Shelby Spong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the book he delves into how and by whom the bible was assembled from various writings of almost exclusively Jewish authors over several centuries. He explains how these authors utilized midrash to develop stories illustrating the points they wished to make. Midrash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I found the book quite enlightening about the history of the bible although I do not agree with some of Spong's far out social ideas which he expounds at times.

BTW, I find "The New Oxford Annotated Bible" to be a great resource. The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha New Revised Standard Version | Cokesbury

Even a lot of Episcopalian higher ups would like to distance themselves from Spong, but he makes some excellent points.

I like the NSRV Harper Collins study bible. I'm a Presbyterian, and the NSRV is what we use.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by shcisamax

Are you familiar with the Inquisition or perhaps the Crusades?

How old do you think we are?

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast

I think we all understand that when these believers in Christ the promised Messiah were saved and blessed for their unwavering faith, they were not reading the New Testament, much less the King James Version of it. (see first link below)

God is fully capable of preserving His word and interpreting it thru His Spirit speaking to readers' and hearers' souls, for all those who seek Him and submit to His unique authority spoken thru the scriptures.

There is great promise and hope for all who died believing in Christ, and for those who believe Him when He returns to take all believers to our eternal home in God's presence. (see second link)

Hebrews 11 - Faith in Action
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=NIV

1 Thessalonians 4 - Believers who have died, and believers who are alive when Christ comes again:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+4&version=NIV

So what about my nephew who died of SIDS at three months. He did not believe in Christ, or anything else for that matter. Is he destined to spend eternity in Hades? Or how about the person who was never introduced to Christianity, but lived a wonderfully giving and righteous life, are they destined to an afterlife spent in Hell?

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

So what about my nephew who died of SIDS at three months. He did not believe in Christ, or anything else for that matter. Is he destined to spend eternity in Hades? Or how about the person who was never introduced to Christianity, but lived a wonderfully giving and righteous life, are they destined to an afterlife spent in Hell?

Sadly, a number of sects would say yes to that, Ed. And teach it.

The silence of a non answer to your question will be your answer.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by shcisamax

Are you familiar with the Inquisition or perhaps the Crusades?

Originally Posted by tomwed

How old do you think we are?

Maybe there're reruns?

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

So what about my nephew who died of SIDS at three months. He did not believe in Christ, or anything else for that matter. Is he destined to spend eternity in Hades? Or how about the person who was never introduced to Christianity, but lived a wonderfully giving and righteous life, are they destined to an afterlife spent in Hell?

I have stayed out of this religion discussion, as I think it is much more dangerous than political, and seems to have more contentious statements like this, but on this subject......

infant salvation is an implicit certainty in most if not all religions. While not addressed specifically in any Bible, God praises the inoncence of children many times....speaking of their innocence he says "“for such is the kingdom of heaven.”

For what it might be worth...

"D. Will Babies and Children Who Die Young Go to Heaven?
The eternal fate of infants and children who die young is a common concern. The same concern applies to those who are mentally handicapped. Some Christians are more concerned about those who die without being baptized. Others are more concerned about those who die too young to make their own choice for faith. Unfortunately, the Bible does not say anything about this topic.
The predominant belief among Christians is that God makes provision for salvation for those who, through no fault of their own, die before being baptized or being able to make their own choices about faith.

It used to be a common belief among Catholics that children who died without being baptized would end up in Limbo, an intermediate state between heaven and hell. However, this is the current teaching of the Catholic Church:

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism... (from Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second edition.)

http://www.christianbiblereference.o...tion.htm#VIIID

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

So what about my nephew who died of SIDS at three months. He did not believe in Christ, or anything else for that matter. Is he destined to spend eternity in Hades? Or how about the person who was never introduced to Christianity, but lived a wonderfully giving and righteous life, are they destined to an afterlife spent in Hell?

Originally Posted by Rags123

I have stayed out of this religion discussion, as I think it is much more dangerous than political, and seems to have more contentious statements like this, but on this subject......

infant salvation is an implicit certainty in most if not all religions. While not addressed specifically in any Bible, God praises the inoncence of children many times....speaking of their innocence he says "“for such is the kingdom of heaven.”

For what it might be worth...

"D. Will Babies and Children Who Die Young Go to Heaven?
The eternal fate of infants and children who die young is a common concern. The same concern applies to those who are mentally handicapped. Some Christians are more concerned about those who die without being baptized. Others are more concerned about those who die too young to make their own choice for faith. Unfortunately, the Bible does not say anything about this topic.
The predominant belief among Christians is that God makes provision for salvation for those who, through no fault of their own, die before being baptized or being able to make their own choices about faith.

It used to be a common belief among Catholics that children who died without being baptized would end up in Limbo, an intermediate state between heaven and hell. However, this is the current teaching of the Catholic Church:

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism... (from Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second edition.)

What Does the Bible Say About Salvation?

I am sorry you interpret this as a "contentious" statement Bucco. I meant it as a legitimate question to the poster who stated that only those who had accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior would be accepted into the Kingdom of God. How do those who believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible reconcile that conundrum.

[sunnyatlast]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

So what about my nephew who died of SIDS at three months. He did not believe in Christ, or anything else for that matter. Is he destined to spend eternity in Hades? Or how about the person who was never introduced to Christianity, but lived a wonderfully giving and righteous life, are they destined to an afterlife spent in Hell?

The first link is a Baptist answer, and Rags posted a Catholic reference. The second link here is from R.C. Sproul, Reformed (Presbyterian) theologian.

Do Infants, Children Who Die Go to Heaven?

Are those who have never heard of Christ going to hell?

From what I've studied and have been taught, people go to hell for rejecting what they have been told in the Gospel. Babies and people who've never heard the Gospel cannot reject what they have not been told. People are accountable to God according to the knowledge they have received and either accepted or rejected.

Beyond that, Romans 1 states the following about those "who suppress the truth" of God. Babies and untaught people cannot suppress what they haven't been told.

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and….

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+1&version=NIV

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast

The first link is a Baptist answer, and Rags posted a Catholic reference. The second link is from R.C. Sproul, Reformed (Presbyterian) theologian.

Do Infants, Children Who Die Go to Heaven?

Are those who have never heard of Christ going to hell?

Okay, that is two peoples opinion on the subject. Would that include infants born to atheists or Muslims?

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

I am sorry you interpret this as a "contentious" statement Bucco. I meant it as a legitimate question to the poster who stated that only those who had accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior would be accepted nto the Kingdom of God. How do those who believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible reconcile that conundrum.

I do consider it to be contentious and your specific questionis not standing alone in that catagory to me.

I strongly think that discussion of religious beliefs makes political discussion pale.

Why anyone would ask another poster on TOTV a question like that (and as I said, you are not the only with questions I, ME..myopinion...question) is beyond me. That question is reserved for your religious advisor and for you to feel in your soul. It does not matter what the poster responds.

I understand that pain that goes with the question for sure. I cannot imagine broaching it to anyone on here.

If I am out of line, I am sorry......I should stay out of this....as I said, I think discussion of religious beliefs is so much more of a non starter than politics ever could hope to be.

My only other comment would be.....perhaps love of political party has superceded our love of God and religion or any beliefs and that is why it is allowed.

I know that I can be swayed by a good political argument, but my religious beliefs are imbedded in my heart and soul and will never be shaken

PS....Whatever response you get will not shake your current belief and shouldn't.