[JP]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

Indeed, the Earth did cause it. And if you go back 500 million years you might find CO2 levels at ten times today's concentration, but you wouldn't want to live in that climate.

For virtually the whole time that Homo Sapiens has been in existence, CO2 has varied between 200 and 300 ppm.

In the mid-18th century (the start of the Industrial Revolution) the level was 280 ppm, and in the past 260 years it has increased to 400 ppm. In the past fifty years alone it has increased 25% (from 320 to 400 ppm).

Apart from cataclysmic events (which tend to cause mass extinctions) the Earth has never before witnessed such a rapid increase. So, while no-one is denying that Earth contributes to the CO2 cycle, it seems more than likely that Man is now playing a significant role.

Even if he is not, and the Earth has suddenly decided to ramp up CO2 concentrations by itself, it is in Man's interest to try to keep the increase as small as possible. Aside from the damage from more violent storms and rising sea levels, plants cannot adapt to rapid changes in their environment. Think crop failure and the death of native forests.

It may take decades for such problems to truly manifest themselves (although the evidence is already out there) but it will take many more decades to slow the increase and, hopefully, get the concentration back below the desired maximum of 350 ppm.

That is if we don't pass a tipping point beyond which Earth just cannot cope. It is comforting to think of Gaia - Earth taking care of itself and compensating for anything Man throws at it - but the reality is proving otherwise. Earth really doesn't care whether Mankind is here or not.

The percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere is 0.039%.

The predominate element in the atmosphere is Nitrogen at 78.09% followed by Oxygen at 20.95%.

Does the change in CO2 from 300ppm to 400ppm still seem that significant when you consider what a small percentage CO2 is in our atmosphere?

[Arctic Fox]

Originally Posted by JP

Does the change in CO2 from 300ppm to 400ppm still seem that significant when you consider what a small percentage CO2 is in our atmosphere?

Yes

Ozone is just 0.000007% of our atmosphere, yet reducing that had a negative effect on our well-being. Thank goodness people realized in time, limited the use of chlorofluorocarbons and the ozone hole is now (slowly) closing.

Any increase in concentration of CO2 causes the average global temperature to rise. This melts the ice caps (raising sea levels) and makes it easier for more-powerful hurricanes to form. It also stresses plants, and enables tropical insects such as mosquitoes to survive further north.

It matters not that CO2 is such a small component of the atmosphere. After all, one ounce of botulinum toxin could kill 200 million people, so things don't need to be large in order to be dangerous.

[Bavarian]

Then why is the polar ice caps bigger then before?
The Earth's Climate has changed often, it is a natural cycle. The Ice Ages went down to what are now considered temperate areas. Travel around the US and you will see evidence of the Ice age everywhere. The climate changes with or without human intervention. Just be prepared. And enjoy our Earth now.

[Arctic Fox]

Originally Posted by Bavarian

Then why is the polar ice caps bigger then before?

Not on Earth they aren't.

Ice coverage in the Arctic is the lowest on record.

While there is an increase in sea ice cover in Antarctica, the vast majority of ice down there is on land and that is getting less, so there is a large net loss.

The one you really need to worry about - Greenland - is losing its glaciers at an alarming rate. If Greenland loses all of its ice, the sea level will be 24 feet higher than it is now.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

Not on Earth they aren't.

Ice coverage in the Arctic is the lowest on record.

While there is an increase in sea ice cover in Antarctica, the vast majority of ice down there is on land and that is getting less, so there is a large net loss.

The one you really need to worry about - Greenland - is losing its glaciers at an alarming rate. If Greenland loses all of its ice, the sea level will be 24 feet higher than it is now.

Don't confuse the issue with those pesky facts!

[manaboutown]

Solar activity (or the lack thereof), the earth's axial tilt (obliquity), it's precession, orbital eccentricity and external celestial forces as well as any ongoing volcanic activity all play roles in climate change over time. Obviously the percentages of the various elements and compounds composing the atmosphere play a part although the role of variations in carbon dioxide concentrations is not yet understood. At present sheer speculations about such changes are running rampant and being utilized to advance and attack various interests.

Solar and celestial effects on climate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Solar activity (or the lack thereof), the earth's axial tilt (obliquity), it's precession, orbital eccentricity and external celestial forces as well as any ongoing volcanic activity all play roles in climate change over time. Obviously the percentages of the various elements and compounds composing the atmosphere play a part although the role of variations in carbon dioxide concentrations is not yet understood. At present sheer speculations about such changes are running rampant and being utilized to advance and attack various interests.

Solar and celestial effects on climate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am having difficulty in tracking this down. Your post appears to be a quote, but none exist. Going to your link, I am unable to find the words you attribute to that link.

Perhaps you can be a bit more specific on how to get this in context.

Thanks

[manaboutown]

My last post is not a quote. I listed the contributing factors to the earth's climate described within the wiki site. I added volcanic activity - such as Krakatoa. BTW, I found the information on the site succinctly written and readily understandable.

"Obviously...interests." is MHO gleaned from what I have read in various sources.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

My last post is not a quote although I listed the contributing factors to the earth's climate described within the wiki site I linked (plus volcanic activity). BTW, the link worked for me. I just checked. I found the information on the site succinctly written and readily understandable. Good luck on another try!

Oh I could get the link and did read it.

My question, I suppose, is whose words are those in the post ?

I ask for two reasons. First, I began this discussion thinking there was NO climate change. I, subsequently, read a link from a poster (eweissenbach) on here to Stanford which says......."Solar Influences on Climate
(Latest research determines Sun is not the cause of global warming) "

This is the link to that statement and there are pages and pages of charts, etc to validate their premise (which I did not read in their entirety because frankly, I aint smart enough).

Global Warming -- Research Issues

After reading as much as I could I changed my mind, agreed their IS climate change, but I did not see it as serious as others.

When I saw your post, I remembered what Stanford had said.

I was not doubting the veracity, but it was very confusing and it is also very difficult to determine the source on a Wikipedia link (for me at least).

If you have another link to what, if they are YOUR words, to validate it, would be appreciated !

Thanks again

[mrfixit]

Ok...the climate is warming...

....does anyone besides me think this may be
correlated to the "Milankovitch Cycles"...??? ...
...which perhaps could also be correlated with "The Mayan Calendar".

This Mayan Long Count Calendar covers 5125.36 years.
This the Mayan referred to as "The Great Cycle".
At end of this Cycle ...the greatest number of Planets are in alignment.
There is nothing we can do about this.
The last ending of "The Great Cycle" occured on 21-Dec-2012.

The earths axis completes one FULL cycle of precission...
.................................................. ..........."approximately" every 26,000 years.
......SURPRISE... SURPRISE and GOLLY !!!.......
.......FIVE Great Cycles of The Mayan Calendar IS "approximately" 26,000 years.

Could it be that Mother Nature simply doing her work. ?

How about the "Natural" shifting of Magnetic North Pole?.

Tampa International Airport and the London Airports...
...and many other airports "re-numbered" N/S "Runways"
due to the Magnetic shift of 2011.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not responsible for the consequences of action taken based on the opinion stated.
No guarantees regarding validity, accuracy or applicibility
of information stated is expressed or implied.
...All rights are reserved.

[manaboutown]

The following sources are merely exemplary. Many others exist.


CO2 Nears 400 ppm

CO2 Is Not Causing Global Warming

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

The following sources are merely exemplary. Many others exist.


CO2 Nears 400 ppm

CO2 Is Not Causing Global Warming

If you are interested you may want to research the author of the second linked article dr. Tim ball. The first is from a right wing funded "climate depot". I prefer my sources un affiliated such as Stanford University.

[JP]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

If you are interested you may want to research the author of the second linked article dr. Tim ball. The first is from a right wing funded "climate depot". I prefer my sources un affiliated such as Stanford University.

Oh, you mean left wing and government funded Stanford. I know them.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by JP

Oh, you mean left wing and government funded Stanford. I know them.

As EWEISSENBACH well knows, we do not agree politically on most things and have exchanged differing views over the years, HOWEVER you should take time before lashing out.

The funding for this Stanford program is from NASA and US meteorology and not left wing sites.

I challenged some of the research, but if you actually visit, you will see no political agenda.

[Topspinmo]

O My! It turned cold today and now it raining, Seen private Jet fly over and limo go by Must be the Climate change police! "O" wait what's that white stuff and hard rock pellets falling from the sky . WOW last year it was Sunny and warm in March. Geezzz, The climate is changing.
Can't wait till it changes back to CLEAR and Sunny. If you think the climate has problems wait till the IOU's are called in due to all the reckless spending when they come for your bank account.