[buggyone]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Thank you! But CFrance wishes she knew the truth of the matter and what to do about it. So I have been interested in all these responses, and probably fall somewhere in the middle. But it's frustrating trying to sort out what groups have an agenda over this issue and what groups don't.

I tend to agree with Coach Ed, mainly because I grew up spending summers at Lake Erie and remember when they closed all the beaches that I swam at as a kid because industry had so polluted the water. Then they were brought to task over that, and the river in Cleveland is no longer burning, and you can swim in Lake Erie again.

So I'm thinking there IS something mankind can do to help prevent the destruction of the planet.

The cleanups even get to Washington, DC. The Potomac River back in the 1960's was nothing more than an open sewer. Now, it is clean water and prime smallmouth bass fishing area.

You are absolutely that messes can be reversed - and must be reversed.

[Golfingnut]

Now were getting someplace. It is not any one thing, but it is happening. One of the biggest factors is methane from the astronomical amount of animals we raise for food. To pick out say animal and go into a long winded rebuttal to say the word is wrong and should have nap been livestock is just childish and does nothing to further the discussion. I feel better now, so Buggy, I am calm again. Thanks for the gentle poke.

[Golfingnut]

For those interested in doing their part, see if any of the causes in the site below are within your control.

Sources | Climate Change | US EPA

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

If two or three more would disappear, political would never come up. That would make climate a discussion rather than an argument. Global warming is here and has nothing to do with Washington.

How can you possibly say that.? You enjoy bringing up political discussion, do it a lot, but somehow you don't think what you are doing is political?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think....... that we do affect the ozone layer. We humans. But I KNOW that getting enough people to act differently is well nigh impossible. The humans aren't going to give up cars fueled by gas and other comforts. Some of us would. Some of us won't.


We can't get people to do things short term to help themselves, like working two jobs and saving money and reusing and repurposing and taking care of what they have. It is the beautiful young and idealistic who will argue with the old and sage. There are things that are right, but not feasible. You cannot change certain elements in certain people. In this case a LOT of people.


It will again be a huge argument that will further polarize people instead of motivating them to do what they can do to improve the air and water. Too many people do NOT care about anything but their own instant gratification. They do not plan or try to save the country's money. They don't realize that is the same principle. Waste not, want not. Necessity is the mother of hard work and the work ethic.


I know these things only because I am old.

Bump

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

Labeling climate change as a "left wing fad", makes me believe the right wing propoganda machine is working. Does anyone care to review history and understand how badly this country's rivers and lakes were polluted in the the nineteenth and early twentieth century? The industrialists and their political pawns maintained it was no problem and fought against any regulation,which was eventually overcome thankfully, and our waters have largely recovered. The same goes for air pollution, and asbestos and any number of pesky problems that corporations fought because they didn't want to have to spend any money to fix them, despite the human cost. Yes they too were left-wing fads I suppose.

I'm afraid you totally missed the point of my post. I am not talking about bonafide ecological issues, clean water and such. No one that I know is opposed to that. I would also disagree that corporations are inherently the bad guys as you seem to imply. State it more clearly if I have misconstrued what you said.

What I am saying is there is a certain faddishness, largely on the left, to "climate change" ... it was originally global cooling years ago, then global warming and now climate change. That word seems to sell better. Do you deny that "fixing" climate change will require a much more intrusive government intervention? Do you deny that there is a huge political agenda that goes with it?

I also note that the latest technique is to dismiss all counter arguments by saying climate change is now settled science. It is not.

The hypocrisy also is bothersome. The leading proponents (well know politicians) of this movement tend to live in huge mansions, burn electricity by the bundle, fly around the world in private jets, make gazillions off the credulous, and then lecture the common man/woman about how they should cut back. It's beyond a joke ... it's a racket.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

How can you possibly say that.? You enjoy bringing up political discussion, do it a lot, but somehow you don't think what you are doing is political?

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

How can you possibly say that.? You enjoy bringing up political discussion, do it a lot, but somehow you don't think what you are doing is political?

LOL. You think I enjoy bringing up the P word. You be wrong again.

[Golfingnut]

Time for me to close and give this thread to the agitators. I will start a new one.

[Golfingnut]

Posted by Gracie Girl. I think....... that we do affect the ozone layer. We humans. But I KNOW that getting enough people to act differently is well nigh impossible. The humans aren't going to give up cars fueled by gas and other comforts. Some of us would. Some of us won't.


We can't get people to do things short term to help themselves, like working two jobs and saving money and reusing and repurposing and taking care of what they have. It is the beautiful young and idealistic who will argue with the old and sage. There are things that are right, but not feasible. You cannot change certain elements in certain people. In this case a LOT of people.


It will again be a huge argument that will further polarize people instead of motivating them to do what they can do to improve the air and water. Too many people do NOT care about anything but their own instant gratification. They do not plan or try to save the country's money. They don't realize that is the same principle. Waste not, want not. Necessity is the mother of hard work and the work ethic.


I know these things only because I am old.

Fortunately the arguing is age tatted by only a few. I am sorry to the folks that could have had meaningfull discussion about what cause s global warming, but you can read. That I tried ti get it back on track three times only to be attacked again. See ya on the next START of a thread.

[EastCoastDawg]

It was a good thread, GolfingNut, with lots of interesting input and different viewpoints - thanks for starting it

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by EastCoastDawg

It was a good thread, GolfingNut, with lots of interesting input and different viewpoints - thanks for starting it

Thank you for saying that. The attacks that continue on me go way back to days when there was a now closed forum. The few just can't build a bridge and leave me alone. There's only three left, so it's tolerable.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I think....... that we do affect the ozone layer. We humans. But I KNOW that getting enough people to act differently is well nigh impossible. The humans aren't going to give up cars fueled by gas and other comforts. Some of us would. Some of us won't.


We can't get people to do things short term to help themselves, like working two jobs and saving money and reusing and repurposing and taking care of what they have. It is the beautiful young and idealistic who will argue with the old and sage. There are things that are right, but not feasible. You cannot change certain elements in certain people. In this case a LOT of people.


It will again be a huge argument that will further polarize people instead of motivating them to do what they can do to improve the air and water. Too many people do NOT care about anything but their own instant gratification. They do not plan or try to save the country's money. They don't realize that is the same principle. Waste not, want not. Necessity is the mother of hard work and the work ethic.


I know these things only because I am old.

Fortunately the arguing is age tatted by only a few. I am sorry to the folks that could have had meaningfull discussion about what cause s global warming, but you can read. That I tried ti get it back on track three times only to be attacked again. See ya on the next START of a thread.

You are not being "attacked" but simply questioned about the accuracy of what you propose as a societal solution. That's what a discussion is supposed to be about.

And I am curious about a point you raise ... are you personally willing to give up your car? Just asking since you brought it up.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

And I am curious about a point you raise ... are you personally willing to give up your car? Just asking since you brought it up.

You will have to ask Gracie Girl about her car since you are referencing her post and not mine.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

You will have to ask Gracie Girl about her car since you are referencing her post and not mine.

Sorry ... let me rephrase it.

Are you willing to give up your car Golfingnut?

What about your golf cart?