[YeOldeCurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And there it is! Finally, the climate change advocates have come to call those of us with a knowledge of paleoclimatology and some common sense "selfish". This must be the same crew that called people who didn't wear a mask when driving their car alone "selfish"

Manipulate/purposely obfuscate???? That 90% number has been debunked multiple times. And isn't it the climatologists who jump on the bandwagon to obtain grant money the ones who are "selfish"?

"Try to slow down the adverse effects"?---to the tune of bankrupting the world???? That would lead to consequences far worse than driving your SUV.

And anyone who thinks the peak of this cyclical warming is any closer than 15-25,000 years away----like the 12 years that was previously stated or even within the lifetimes of our grandchildren, well...........I can't write it.

Have you read through the thread? It certainly doesn't appear that you have based on this post. There are some excellent posts in it, and I'm not including any of mine in this assessment.

[Stu from NYC]

We still do not know what we do not know and we sure do not know that much about the previous 10,000 years.

[Retwarrior]

HAARP Weather Manipulation Sites.
Researching is amazing.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

We still do not know what we do not know and we sure do not know that much about the previous 10,000 years.

"Don't know what we don't " could be said about any topic and be true. But, between paleontologists, archeologists, climatologists, and other researchers, we actually know quite a bit.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon

Have you read through the thread? It certainly doesn't appear that you have based on this post. There are some excellent posts in it, and I'm not including any of mine in this assessment.

There are indeed. As well as some--well--antagonistic posts. But my compliments to the Thought Police. They've allowed this discussion to take place even though there appeared to be some justifiable reasons not to do so.

But let's take another tack here--not to try to predict the dangers (or not) that lie ahead, but to look back on how far we've come. In 1960 I was 12 years old, just entering Junior High. The total population of the Earth in 1960 was 3,034,949,748 persons. I remember the discussions in school at the time: about how horribly overcrowded the Earth had become; that in a very few years, maybe 30 at most, the earth would not be able to sustain such a population and the calamitous days ahead were going see mass starvation on a scale never before seen, and wars fought for the sole purpose of obtaining the food supplies of other nations. That was 1960, and the rate of population growth was over 2% per year. Today, the Earth supports a population of just a shade under EIGHT billion people, getting close to three times as many as there were in 1960 (with the rate of growth slowing to less than 1% per year), and I'd venture to guess that, per capita, there are far fewer people starving in the world today than in 1960. Huge advances in farming knowledge and technology, better land management, more efficient shipping and storage, etc. have all contributed. We learned and adapted.

One post mentioned the pollution in Los Angeles during the mid-20th century. I remember those days. Not just Los Angeles but many other cities had the same problem. The technology of the day was dirty--no doubt about it. But the Clean Air Act of 1963 set in motion a series of reforms and technological improvements particularly in manufacturing (emission scrubbers, better disposal of pollutants, catalytic converters, etc.) that has made a world of difference from then to now. Look at pictures of major American cities of the early 1960s compared to pictures of today and you will see this. We learned and adapted.

Finally, energy. Back in 1980 the world was thought to have 642.160000253469 billion barrels of recoverable oil. In 2015, that number had exploded to 1615.40000067651 billion barrels--well over twice as much as was known in 1980. (index mundi website). And in a turn of events that can only be described as ironic--the known oil reserves of the Arctic grow by leaps and bounds year by year, and with the north polar ice cap receding, that oil becomes more and more recoverable. Not only that, but our methods of recovery, transportation and refining become cleaner and more efficient year by year. We learned and adapted.

Those of us blessed with long lives know far better than anyone else A) just how the naysayers dominate the news; and B) just how often those naysayers are proven wrong. Books like "Earth In The Balance", once the Bible of the doom-and-gloomers, are today far more noteworthy of the horrendous Inaccuracy of their predictions than for anything else. Bad news sells, after all. But looking to the past gives us, in my opinion, a far more accurate barometer of how the future will be going than any doom-and-gloom predictions can. We get it right. Not nearly as fast as many think we should, but we do.

[Byte1]

Who was it that once said that the great thing about being a Weatherman is that you don't get fired for being wrong?

[OhioBuckeye]

Seriously do you think Hurricane’s are caused by Gobal Warming, seriously it’s called govt. money gouging. No way money will fix Mother Nature. This is something that happens every 100 yrs. Don’t believe it, we had another person make billions off of us.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

We still do not know what we do not know and we sure do not know that much about the previous 10,000 years.

We KNOW the earth is about 4.5 billion years; how is that possible there was no one other to start a timer running?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

Seriously do you think Hurricane’s are caused by Gobal Warming, seriously it’s called govt. money gouging. No way money will fix Mother Nature. This is something that happens every 100 yrs. Don’t believe it, we had another person make billions off of us.

Seriously, have you seen any post, read any scientific journal, or found anything where any credible account claims a hurricane was caused by Man-made climate change? If so, I would love a reference so I can go write another book on them.

I know of no one that claims singleton events, hurricanes, droughts, flooding, etc, are caused by global warming. That is a news media talking point to raise anger.

What climate change is said to do is to affect the climate. At this point, the change is a very little nudge - so in the case of Ian, Ian would have happened anyway, but because of climate change maybe the storm surge in SW Florida was 18 feet instead of 15 feet or 17 feet or whatever it would have been without the impact of climate change.

In Phoenix, AZ, there are long periods of temperatures in excess of 100f every day. I don't remember the exact number of days, but say all things being normal, they would have had a 90-day period this year, but instead, because of climate change, they have a 92-day period.

People look a that and say, well, what's the big deal, in 1843 they had a 105 days period. See, climate change is fake.

Well, no, that is not how averages work. Climate scientists never claim to predict any singleton event. They claim that, on average, things are changing - a small amount each year but changing. That is why it takes supercomputers to run the models which analyze enough data from all over the world to be able to see very small deviations over time. Picking out exceptions as samples of why they are wrong, well, seems simple and reasonable, but doesn't work.

Why is that small change so important?

Well, think of it as compound interest. When you are 8 and deposit that first tuppence, the interest is silly little, But continue ever week with another tuppence, and compound interest starts to be significant. By the time you are 65, you can retire. (well, today, a tuppence may not be enough to retire, but you get the idea. small changes add up over time, especially when they are compounding).

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon

I think this topic is very important and should not be categorized as political. The problem is that there are those who have made it political. It affects us all, as we can see with the latest hurricane, which caused so much damage and flooding because according to the experts contained more water and flooding effects because of global warming.

MY VIEW-I find it interesting that GLOBAL WARMING has morphed into CLIMATE CHANGE. Climate has and always will change over time. Roughly 45 years ago the issue was global cooling. We did not have Al Gore to line his pockets, he has a HUGE carbon footprint while telling the rest of us what we should give up.

I could SCREAM that my carbon foot print is far less than it used to be. It would be totally TRUE. Before I pat myself on the back I SHOULD state I am retired and I no longer PRODUCE anything.

As a kid I remember a cross section of an ancient redwood that was on display at the NY Museum of Natural History. They had tags showing the ring where major world events occurred. They pointed out different climate changes over history. There were times where the tree grew more and times it grew less due to CHANGING CLIMATE. I will bet that REALITY has been taken down.

Hurricanes-with all the PANIC, we have had FEWER hurricanes than in the past.

It is always others should. California perhaps the epicenter of this PANIC. They have incomprehensible forest fires. It is due IN PART to poor forest management. These fires release TONS of CO2. They are deliberately making gasoline powered cars unaffordable to drive.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by DAVES

MY VIEW-I find it interesting that GLOBAL WARMING has morphed into CLIMATE CHANGE. Climate has and always will change over time. Roughly 45 years ago the issue was global cooling.

Climate Change, Cooling, etc are all "common tongue" descriptions typically used by the media and then adopted by the masses. The term Climate Change was adopted because cooling carried the implication that the climate would just cool, and climate warming carried the implication that the climate would only warm.

News and politicians love simple catchy dog whistles.

The actual name is anthropogenic (man-made) climate change, and it predicts the climate will become more variable - not just warmer or cooler.

I understand what you are saying, I don't agree obviously. But, we each have to come to our own opinions. There are plenty of long-winded explanations here of why I have my opinion.

You have stated yours, I respect that even if it sounds like I don't in most of my posts.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

We KNOW the earth is about 4.5 billion years; how is that possible there was no one other to start a timer running?

(Psst. Geology, physics, astronoy, etc. Timex is not the only way to record the passage of time.)

[MidWestIA]

I just care about extreme weather in The Villages, Iowa or Texas. Talking about future weather is pointless unless you plan to do some construction or move

[fdpaq0580]

[QUOTE=in2i. Next year the left will claim global freezing.[/QUOTE]

I sincerely doubt that.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by fcgiii

The Medieval Warm Period centered on the 1200s was warmer than we are now, and the climate was clearly colder in the Little Ice Age in the 1600s than it is now. So we are within the geologically recent range of normal up-and-down fluctuations without human greenhouse contributions that could be significant, or even measurable.

What IS measurable is that the past 8 years globally are the warmest in RECORDED weather records. Also MEASURABLE is the rapid increase in the last few years of SEA LEVEL RISE. Climate scientists know that the cause of the sea level rise is the rapid falling away of the world's glaciers into the sea due to the earth's recent higher temperatures.

Another issue that worries scientists is the fairly recent rapid extinction of many animal species. Personally, I can't just pretend that this isn't happening - that there is a large island of plastic bottles and other plastic items floating around and polluting the Gulf of Mexico - that the coral of coastal Miami (that I once snorkeled around) is dying - that the Florida saltwater fishing industry is dying - that hurricanes are getting stronger. When I was a child I remember honey bees were everywhere. Today with excessive pesticide spraying, I see maybe 5 honey bees in a years time. And I believe that these issues are all interconnected.

Take population increase for example. When I relocated to Florida in 1972, its population was approximately 9 million people. Today it is 30 million. I can't personally say that my quality of life has tripled because of that population increase. But, it seems logical that a population change that great has had negative effects on human quality of life and on the coral reefs surrounding Florida - and on the ecosystems in the Florida interior.

Growing population leads to greater CO2 production from burning fossil fuels - which leads to climate change. Not just burning fossil fuel in cars, trucks, golf carts, and lawn maintenance equipment. But, think of the increased airline travel miles associated with Florida's 30 million people.........that is a lot of jet fuel being burned with the combustion products probably ending up in the upper atmosphere. Modern life with great science and technology has created many everyday benefits. But, it also allows humans to have the capacity to overwhelm the environment.......the once great Mother Earth.