[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Ptmckiou

Incredible stupid? Really? I wear a N95 mask. The same type mask doctors wear. You can can order them online. The 95 means it filters out 95% of all viruses. And yes….it’s a white cloth mask but with special construction to pass certification. You go to a hospital to visit a friend, you’re required to wear a N95, and they will give it to you.

Agree, about N-95's

Now what does that have to do with PAPER masks?????

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MandoMan

If you were having major surgery, would you want everyone in the OR to wear a mask? I would! People breathe out germs from their noses and lungs, and droplets of saliva spray out when they talk. Cultures are taken from noses for Covid testing, so people who have it have it there, ready to share. Half a century ago I spent three years at an operating room table passing instruments to doctors. Two years were in the US, wearing good quality disposable masks designed to catch droplets. (They weren’t paper. More
Iike special non-woven fabrics.) One year was in Africa, where our sponges were made of the same absorbable, multi-layer cotton fabric as laparotomy sponges. These were laundered, boiled, dried in the sun, and reused. There were no N-95 masks yet. I like to believe those masks served a purpose and prevented the spreading of micro-organisms. They were required. When they were invented, their use cut infections. When I arrived in Africa, my OR had a 50% surgical infection rate. When I left, it was 2%. Required sterile technique works. Properly worn, high quality masks do filter out organisms, each way. I know of a study in the UK based on surgeries done without masks that says they don’t stop the spread of infection in the OR, but I’d like corroboration of that, and I still don’t want people coughing in my face.

And all of that is true and well stated----about other people wearing masks around you. It does not change the almost nil value of wearing a paper mask to protect yourself

[merrymini]

The paper masks are actually not paper.
The only thing worse than “paper” masks are cloth ones.
The lies perpetrated around this virus are sad.
The people who believe them are sadder.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

But it's not a personal decision, it's a scientific/medical decision. Which means that decision should be made on the facts, NOT "feelings". And what you call "offensive" might just as easily be considered "educational", in a rather harsh manner. If someone wants to wear a paper mask on a cruise, fine, they have that right. But they also have the right to wear their life preserver 24/7 or wear a helmet on the flight to the departure port. I'm sure someone will retort that those are ridiculous analogies, but in reality, they are exactly the same-----the illusion of safety where no actual safety exists. In fact, I could make a better case for the life preserver or helmet, since the former will give protection in case the ship sinks or you fall overboard, and the latter in case of a low speed crash such as while taxiing.

I agree with your analogies. I suppose we could say the same thing about the triple vaxed who still wind up getting Covid. Why insist that passengers on a cruise ship be "fully vaccinated" if they can still get Covid and wind up in quarantine anyway?

Wouldn't it be better to just accept that there is a contagious and ever mutating virus going around and that if you go into crowded places like concerts, sporting events, cruises, etc - you accept the risk of doing so?

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

[hrenner]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Sounds a bit high, but may be in the ballpark for a cruise. I was at the Sharon last week and out of 900+ attendees, I could only spot 5 with a mask, although there could have been more. So my question to these 1-20% minority who are wearing the paper masks is this: Are you so incredibly altruistic that you believe you are protecting the other 99% from yourself, or are you so incredibly stupid that you still believe a paper mask is protecting yourself? I think 99% of us know that answer. And please, no idiotic responses such as "any protection is better than none" or "I feel safer wearing one" , you would just be making the point. People with legitimate medical concerns are exempt.

You don't have to be so nasty

[camaguey48]

Originally Posted by RedChariot

I do believe you are a medical doctor. Yes? Is it your professional opinion that wearing a mask is ineffective and a waste of our time? What advise can you give us to avoid Covid in addition to vaccines and boosters. My husband and I were at the Sharon about a month ago to see Jay Leno. We and one other man were the only ones wearing a mask. Including the staff. I am high risk.

High risk? Perhaps to you, not the rest of us. Keep doing what you're doing, I have a feeling it's working out for you.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I agree with your analogies. I suppose we could say the same thing about the triple vaxed who still wind up getting Covid. Why insist that passengers on a cruise ship be "fully vaccinated" if they can still get Covid and wind up in quarantine anyway?

Wouldn't it be better to just accept that there is a contagious and ever mutating virus going around and that if you go into crowded places like concerts, sporting events, cruises, etc - you accept the risk of doing so?

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

The natural history of these viral pandemics is that the strains tend to become more contagious but less virulent and eventually fade away or turn into something much more benign. Many of our seasonal flu strains are direct descendants of the Spanish flu of 1918-19, and about 10-15% of "common cold" viruses are coronaviruses. Let's hope that is the case with COVID

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by hrenner

You don't have to be so nasty

Perhaps not, but back when I was "nice" about trying to shed light on fact and fiction regarding COVID, all I got was endless argument and debate from people who didn't have the slightest idea of what they were talking about, so, like Howard Stern, I'm trying the "shock jock" approach.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

Same here, but friends and I have had long lasting yunny sinus and post nasal drip resulting from inflamed nasal passages which have lasted several months, and uncertain if it will ever clear up. . . this results in daily coughing, which constantly irritates the throat. . .

so lucky if you get no longer lasting symptoms. . . but not everyone is so lucky. . hopefully time will resolve

[Jack65]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I agree with your analogies. I suppose we could say the same thing about the triple vaxed who still wind up getting Covid. Why insist that passengers on a cruise ship be "fully vaccinated" if they can still get Covid and wind up in quarantine anyway?

Wouldn't it be better to just accept that there is a contagious and ever mutating virus going around and that if you go into crowded places like concerts, sporting events, cruises, etc - you accept the risk of doing so?

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

There seems to be a lot of people that don’t realize there are many variants of coronavirus, and what is referred to as a positive test is just a positive test for one of the 7 or more coronaviruse. The test cannot distinguish one from another. My neighbor has had positive tests 4 times over the past 2 years and he has been vaccinated boosted etc. symptoms are mild (common cold). As long as Fauci is on TV though we will continue with this discussion.

[JuneMarkridge]

The “paper mask” you are referring to I imagine is what is known as a “surgical” mask - “medical” face mask or “procedure” mask which fall under the category of PPE and is a barrier that reduces airborne transmission of pathogens. It is better than a cloth mask but of course not as effective as an N95. And most certainly the fit is very important. When indoors in a large venue, with a large crowd I certainly will continue to wear my mask. Last I heard the pandemic was not over… and a new more easily transmissible strain is on the scene. I hope you really are not that selfish that for 2 hours you cannot sit with a mask on to possibly prevent the spread of a virus you may be harboring??? Is it your - let me use your term “stupidity” that makes you uninformed about how Covid is transmitted??? I wear my mask to protect myself and whoever might be sitting around me. I don’t know who has a health issue and might not be able to fight this deadly virus even if they are vaccinated and boosted. It is not altruism or stupidity but common sense and curtesy!!!
If you don’t think masks work, would tell the surgeon that he need not wear a mask if you needed surgery???

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I agree with your analogies. I suppose we could say the same thing about the triple vaxed who still wind up getting Covid. Why insist that passengers on a cruise ship be "fully vaccinated" if they can still get Covid and wind up in quarantine anyway?

Wouldn't it be better to just accept that there is a contagious and ever mutating virus going around and that if you go into crowded places like concerts, sporting events, cruises, etc - you accept the risk of doing so?

I've had the most recent variation of Covid and my symptoms were so mild that I thought it was seasonal allergies. It was basically a head cold. Most of the people that I know who have had it have experienced the same sort of thing. It's when it starts to go into your chest that you should get yourself into a doctor.

The people on a cruise ship who get vaccinated and catch the virus usually do not get serious case and die from it.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by JuneMarkridge

The “paper mask” you are referring to I imagine is what is known as a “surgical” mask - “medical” face mask or “procedure” mask which fall under the category of PPE and is a barrier that reduces airborne transmission of pathogens. It is better than a cloth mask but of course not as effective as an N95. And most certainly the fit is very important. When indoors in a large venue, with a large crowd I certainly will continue to wear my mask. Last I heard the pandemic was not over… and a new more easily transmissible strain is on the scene. I hope you really are not that selfish that for 2 hours you cannot sit with a mask on to possibly prevent the spread of a virus you may be harboring??? [B]Is it your - let me use your term “stupidity” that makes you uninformed about how Covid is transmitted??? I wear my mask to protect myself and whoever might be sitting around me. I don’t know who has a health issue and might not be able to fight this deadly virus even if they are vaccinated and boosted. It is not altruism or stupidity but common sense and curtesy!!!
If you don’t think masks work, would tell the surgeon that he need not wear a mask if you needed surgery???[/B]

Now that is truly laughable, best one yet. I'M UNINFORMED!
Ok, I guess I'm stuck educating you. You get a partial pass since this is your first post.

You may certainly wear your mask to protect those around you---that fits into the altruism category and I applaud you. As far as protecting yourself, well, that has already been addressed. And again it is not "common sense", it is scientific and medical fact. The problem is that many have "made up their own minds" based on the internet, or their hairdresser, or the voodoo high priestess. And you close with a statement that completely delineates your misinformation----when I wore a mask while performing surgery, it was not to protect myself, it was to protect the patient. If the patient had something highly contagious, let's say meningococcemia, we used a whole different level of protection.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MandoMan

If you were having major surgery, would you want everyone in the OR to wear a mask? I would! People breathe out germs from their noses and lungs, and droplets of saliva spray out when they talk. Cultures are taken from noses for Covid testing, so people who have it have it there, ready to share. Half a century ago I spent three years at an operating room table passing instruments to doctors. Two years were in the US, wearing good quality disposable masks designed to catch droplets. (They weren’t paper. More
Iike special non-woven fabrics.) One year was in Africa, where our sponges were made of the same absorbable, multi-layer cotton fabric as laparotomy sponges. These were laundered, boiled, dried in the sun, and reused. There were no N-95 masks yet. I like to believe those masks served a purpose and prevented the spreading of micro-organisms. They were required. When they were invented, their use cut infections. When I arrived in Africa, my OR had a 50% surgical infection rate. When I left, it was 2%. Required sterile technique works. Properly worn, high quality masks do filter out organisms, each way. I know of a study in the UK based on surgeries done without masks that says they don’t stop the spread of infection in the OR, but I’d like corroboration of that, and I still don’t want people coughing in my face.

OR masks are not designed to protect anyone from viruses. It's BACTERIA, which are exponentially larger than viruses...

You're comparing apples to kumquats...

[NJSonja]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

We know quite a few people from here who have cruised in past 4 months (us included) very successfully. We are sticking to Caribbean for now though.

we are sticking with the Caribbean now too. They stole 2 years from us and life keeps moving. We've been on 3 since September and thankfully have not gotten ill. In August I'm supposed to go to Iceland, but who knows how that will be (on a cruise). I can't stop living. IMHO