[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by buggyone

I called the article a piece of ridiculousness with the talk of sheep and sheepdogs. Let the trained police officers do their jobs.

What about the alleged claim of 6 per 100,000 per year murders? I have not seen 24 murders in The Villages in the 4 years I have lived here. What about the claim of 4 per 1000 aggravated assaults per year? I have not seen 1600 in the 4 years.

You're putting us on...........right? As if you really don't get it.

1. The Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdog story is a literary device. It is called an analogy. Closely related are allegories and parables. Such devices are used in books that include writings by Hemingway, Melville, Orwell, Bunyan and C.S. Lewis......all great authors.

2. When the Colonel quoted the murder rate of 6 per 100,000 he was talking about the average for the United States at that time, not a little slice called The Villages. You take the statistics from the entire country to establish the average. I assure you the per capita murder rate for Chicago (18.5) is much higher than here, but both are included in the average.

And, the point he was making was, "...that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another."

3. Incidentally, the figures are in for 2012, and the murder rate per 100,00 is down to 4.7. The murder rate has been trending downward for several years. Many scholars attribute this reduction to the large number of states that have instituted "must issue" laws regarding concealed weapon licenses. Criminals are now more apprehensive that their prospective victims might be armed so there are fewer confrontations.

[buggyone]

How many murders and aggravated assaults per year would you and the colonel say should be the average for The Villages per year? I can recall one murder back around 2007, I believe.

Anyhow, would a trained police officer pump 6 or 7 9mm shots at a robber in a crowded grocery store and acknowledge only 2 hit the robber? One bullet hit a leg and one hit the forehead. Kind of a wide shot grouping, isn't it? How does a robber flee the store after being shot in the forehead with a 9mm? If it was only a grazing wound, that bullet continued it's flight. Very foolish to do, don't you agree?

Leave the cowboy heroics to the trained police officers.

[chiefrose]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Chief, I take it you choose not to carry. That's your choice, and I respect it. I don't know how much your decision was affected by the red tape in New Jersey. (Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there...........snow and all that.)

But if you are now a resident of Florida you can ignore what New Jersey thinks (except for magazine capacity restrictions if you go back there.)

You have the required photo ID from your agency; all you need is a certification that you have qualified TO FLORIDA STANDARDS in the preceding 12 months, and you are compliant with LEOSA.

If you should decide you want to go to the range and get certified, let me know and we will locate the nearest authorized range so you can get it done. You only need 40 rounds to qualify. If you are willing to drive a couple of hours away I know where you can get it done for no cost.

An alternative is to get a Florida Concealed Weapons License. Florida has reciprocity agreements with 33 other states (and a license is not required in Vermont, making 34). The main states excluded are in New England, the Midwest and the West Coast. As you would expect, there is no reciprocity with New Jersey.

In fact, New Jersey even limits the number of rounds out-of-state active duty, and retired, officers may carry in their pistols. Strange............

There are advantages to being LEOSA compliant and having a Florida CCW license for varying situations, but that's a story for another time.

Best wishes Chief,

Carl

Carl:

Unfortunately, still a NJ resident for the time being so I comply with their requirements. By their standard we have to qualify twice per year - 100 rounds, day and night fire. We also have to pay a $50 renewal fee per year. The state has to get their cut.

Hopefully, next year I will declare Florida as my primary residence. I understand from another retired LEO here in the Villages that the Sumter SO qualifies us retired guys for HR218. I believe it is done every January. Anyway that is the plan.

Take care.

Rich

[Carl in Tampa]

Chief,

I look forward to meeting you one of these days. Right now I'm somewhat immobile, in physical therapy recovering from major spine surgery.

My former agency, 2 hours away, does retiree qualifications monthly, for free.

In the mean time Florida law allows you to have a firearm in your car as long as it is "cased" which can mean simply in a closed glove compartment or in a holster with a snap on it, but you can't be wearing it.

Also, non-residents are authorized to obtain a Florida CCW license.

Stay safe.

Carl

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by buggyone

How many murders and aggravated assaults per year would you and the colonel say should be the average for The Villages per year? I can recall one murder back around 2007, I believe.

Anyhow, would a trained police officer pump 6 or 7 9mm shots at a robber in a crowded grocery store and acknowledge only 2 hit the robber? One bullet hit a leg and one hit the forehead. Kind of a wide shot grouping, isn't it? How does a robber flee the store after being shot in the forehead with a 9mm? If it was only a grazing wound, that bullet continued it's flight. Very foolish to do, don't you agree?

Leave the cowboy heroics to the trained police officers.

Alas, it has become painfully evident that you do not read the material presented to you with perception.

1. The low murder rate in The Villages is exactly the Colonel's point "that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another." Don't you get that?

2. The news account regarding the convenience store shooting says that the "highly agitated" armed robber "pointed the shotgun" at the CCW holder, who "feared for his life." What would you have had him do, wait until the robber shot him at close range with a shotgun?

Included in the news account is a statement from the Milwaukee County District Attorney: "He disrupted an act that potentially exposed himself and others to great bodily harm," Chisholm said. Video footage from the store showed "he acted reasonably and in a controlled manner during the encounter," Chisholm said. "Reasonably and in a controlled manner." Get it?

3. Your almost childlike faith in how much better a "trained police officer" would perform in such circumstances is touching, but misplaced. It is one thing to stand up and punch holes in a piece of cardboard on a pistol range; it is entirely different to be in an armed confrontation in which you are in grave danger of being injured or killed. No one knows in advance how he will perform under such a stress.

It may have escaped your notice, but "trained police officers" are wounded or killed in armed confrontations all too often.

I have lost friends and comrades to line of duty injury and death.

[NoMoSno]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Alas, it has become painfully evident that you do not read the material presented to you with perception.

1. The low murder rate in The Villages is exactly the Colonel's point "that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another." Don't you get that?

2. The news account regarding the convenience store shooting says that the "highly agitated" armed robber "pointed the shotgun" at the CCW holder, who "feared for his life." What would you have had him do, wait until the robber shot him at close range with a shotgun?

Included in the news account is a statement from the Milwaukee County District Attorney: "He disrupted an act that potentially exposed himself and others to great bodily harm," Chisholm said. Video footage from the store showed "he acted reasonably and in a controlled manner during the encounter," Chisholm said. "Reasonably and in a controlled manner." Get it?

3. Your almost childlike faith in how much better a "trained police officer" would perform in such circumstances is touching, but misplaced. It is one thing to stand up and punch holes in a piece of cardboard on a pistol range; it is entirely different to be in an armed confrontation in which you are in grave danger of being injured or killed. No one knows in advance how he will perform under such a stress.

It may have escaped your notice, but "trained police officers" are wounded or killed in armed confrontations all too often.

I have lost friends and comrades to line of duty injury and death.

Well said Carl!

[kittygilchrist]

Carl, prayers for an easy recovery. Keep the faith.
Kitty

[buggyone]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Alas, it has become painfully evident that you do not read the material presented to you with perception.

1. The low murder rate in The Villages is exactly the Colonel's point "that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another." Don't you get that?

2. The news account regarding the convenience store shooting says that the "highly agitated" armed robber "pointed the shotgun" at the CCW holder, who "feared for his life." What would you have had him do, wait until the robber shot him at close range with a shotgun?

Included in the news account is a statement from the Milwaukee County District Attorney: "He disrupted an act that potentially exposed himself and others to great bodily harm," Chisholm said. Video footage from the store showed "he acted reasonably and in a controlled manner during the encounter," Chisholm said. "Reasonably and in a controlled manner." Get it?

3. Your almost childlike faith in how much better a "trained police officer" would perform in such circumstances is touching, but misplaced. It is one thing to stand up and punch holes in a piece of cardboard on a pistol range; it is entirely different to be in an armed confrontation in which you are in grave danger of being injured or killed. No one knows in advance how he will perform under such a stress.

It may have escaped your notice, but "trained police officers" are wounded or killed in armed confrontations all too often.

I have lost friends and comrades to line of duty injury and death.

A well-intentioned civilian playing John Wayne can cause more harm to bystanders than the robber. Obviously, the civilian was not too good of a shot to hit his target with a two shot grouping of 5 feet. Only 2 of 7 bullets hit the target and the robber still left the store on his own power.

Anyhow, you and I will never agree so 'nuff said on this topic for me.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by buggyone

A well-intentioned civilian playing John Wayne can cause more harm to bystanders than the robber. Obviously, the civilian was not too good of a shot to hit his target with a two shot grouping of 5 feet. Only 2 of 7 bullets hit the target and the robber still left the store on his own power.

Anyhow, you and I will never agree so 'nuff said on this topic for me.

He was not "playing John Wayne." He was defending himself against an armed criminal who was pointing a shotgun at him. It is amazing that you don't comprehend that.

Your assumption that the CCW holder was not a good shot again ignores the stress associated with having an "agitated" criminal pointing a shotgun at him.

The criminal left the store without his shotgun and without the money, and was apprehended.

Good outcome.

You are correct that we will never agree. You want everyone to be Sheep. That is not practical in the real world.

And, again......... there is nothing wrong with being a Sheep. It simply means you go into the world unarmed, as most people do.

Among them, protecting us all, are the Sheepdogs.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

Carl, prayers for an easy recovery. Keep the faith.
Kitty

Thank you, Kitty. It has become a long struggle. The leg muscles are well developed but the nerves sending them the messages to support my weight are damaged, and I'm told that nerves regenerate very slowly.

I haven't given up.

Thanks again,

Carl

[buggyone]

The 4 or 5 stray 9mm bullets could have very easily killed bystanders in the super market. I doubt if the police would have shot in such a situation.

Anyhow, 'nuff said on this topic for me.

Best wishes for a great recovery from the back surgery.

Buggy

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by buggyone

The 4 or 5 stray 9mm bullets could have very easily killed bystanders in the super market. I doubt if the police would have shot in such a situation.

Anyhow, 'nuff said on this topic for me.

Best wishes for a great recovery from the back surgery.

Buggy

IF you'd watch the Video interview (in the linked article) of the man who defended the cashier, himself, his wife, and the others from a lunatic waving a SHOTGUN at them, you would see the CCW man explain how there was only one person in line between himself and the robber waving the shotgun, and the CCW carrier was able to make eye contact with that man to signal for him to step back and away from the robber. This man understood what the CCW carrier wanted to do to defend them, and he got out of the line of fire exactly as was needed.

What kind of cold-blooded brother, husband or father of that lady cashier would demand that this CCW carrier do NOTHING to help her, when he COULD help her, and help her safely--as he did???

And by the way, Aldi is not an all-night "convenience" store. It is a supermarket owned by the same company as Trader Joes, and we have two Aldi stores here. A loser with a shotgun could show up and do the same thing at any store, anywhere in TV or elsewhere.

See video interview with CCW carrier, under the headline and on the left side:

Aldi customer won't be charged in shooting

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

IF you'd watch the Video interview (in the linked article) of the man who defended the cashier, himself, his wife, and the others from a lunatic waving a SHOTGUN at them, you would see the CCW man explain how there was only one person in line between himself and the robber waving the shotgun, and the CCW carrier was able to make eye contact with that man to signal for him to step back and away from the robber. This man understood what the CCW carrier wanted to do to defend them, and he got out of the line of fire exactly as was needed.

What kind of cold-blooded brother, husband or father of that lady cashier would demand that this CCW carrier do NOTHING to help her, when he COULD help her, and help her safely--as he did???

And by the way, Aldi is not an all-night "convenience" store. It is a supermarket owned by the same company as Trader Joes, and we have two Aldi stores here. A loser with a shotgun could show up and do the same thing at any store, anywhere in TV or elsewhere.

See video interview with CCW carrier, under the headline and on the left side:

Aldi customer won't be charged in shooting

Now you are messing up the banter by presenting the facts of the matter!!!!

[chiefrose]

Carl:

Hope you have a speedy and successful recovery.

Rich

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by chiefrose

Carl:

Hope you have a speedy and successful recovery.

Rich

Thank you sir. We must get together one of these days.

Carl