[DougB]

Originally Posted by CFrance

For anyone's information, the reason school in MI cannot start until after Labor Day is because tourism is so big there, with a big lobby, and they pushed that law through during Jennifer Granholm's administration.

There was a lot of $ lost over people not vacationing over Labor Day Weekend.

Tourism a lot bigger in Florida than Michigan. Businesses attempted to push back the start of school here also, not for just the visitors but to keep those high school kids who worked at the tourist destinations over the summer working through labor day.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by DougB

Tourism a lot bigger in Florida than Michigan. Businesses attempted to push back the start of school here also, not for just the visitors but to keep those high school kids who worked at the tourist destinations over the summer working through labor day.

Yeah, I'm not saying yay or nay to that. Maybe because MI tourism season is so limited as opposed to Florida's, they had a stronger argument.

I have no real opinion on this. For us Michiganders, it was nice to extend an August vacation. But once the kids were in varsity sports, they had to be in town for mid-August practice starts anyway.

[DougB]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Yeah, I'm not saying yay or nay to that. Maybe because MI tourism season is so limited as opposed to Florida's, they had a stronger argument.

I have no real opinion on this. For us Michiganders, it was nice to extend an August vacation. But once the kids were in varsity sports, they had to be in town for mid-August practice starts anyway.

So, are schools and teachers really as bad in MI as a certain poster wants us to believe? I know they got some great universities there!

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by DougB

So, are schools and teachers really as bad in MI as a certain poster wants us to believe? I know they got some great universities there!

Compared to the school systems in NY and NJ, which we experienced with two kids in elementary and Jr. high in the '80s to '90s, I would say the MI schools lag behind a bit. But I am not condemning them. Our kids went on to good schools and became successful. There were definitely a couple teachers who needed to retire or be retired (burned out for good), but I don't blame the school system for that.

And yes, there are some great universities in MI. U of M and Wayne State in Detroit come to mind. Kalamazoo College is very top notch, as are some of the other private schools.

[johnboy]

Originally Posted by DougB

Maybe you should do the math. 10 weeks of summer wouldn't get them 12,000 more. Plus the fact that the amount of time teachers spend working on top of their regular workday (nights, weekends, summer, etc) without pay.

Get real 180 days of teaching at best from 7:30am until 2:30pm which included a lunch period, home room, and time off between periods. 11 - 12 days off for Christmas and Easter, Thursday thru Sunday off at Thanksgiving along with 10 days in June, all of July, all of August. That doesn't even compare to the 2080 hour work year for the minimal employee and much more for more dedicated employees. Along with a very generous pension. Most people would gladly trade for those benefits. And please don't embarrass your self by saying they could have chosen that path also. They don't even compare to the engineering degrees, be it chemical, civil, or electrical degrees.

[johnboy]

Originally Posted by Suzi

Teachers have the summer off - to my knowledge deputies don't. Do the math.....

They have way more than just the summer off, try Easter, Christmas, 1 1/2 weeks in June, a week in September, Thursday thru Sunday for Thanksgiving and much shorter workday hours.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by johnboy

Get real 180 days of teaching at best from 7:30am until 2:30pm which included a lunch period, home room, and time off between periods. 11 - 12 days off for Christmas and Easter, Thursday thru Sunday off at Thanksgiving along with 10 days in June, all of July, all of August. That doesn't even compare to the 2080 hour work year for the minimal employee and much more for more dedicated employees. Along with a very generous pension. Most people would gladly trade for those benefits. And please don't embarrass your self by saying they could have chosen that path also. They don't even compare to the engineering degrees, be it chemical, civil, or electrical degrees.

The salaries are not comparable. Back in the day, the benefits were poured on the teachers to compensate them for lower salaries. I think your description of a teacher's job is an oversimplication. And I wasn't a teacher.
I envy my teacher friends' benefits, but they didn't make anywhere near the salary my husband made in the corporate field.

[DougB]

Originally Posted by johnboy

Get real 180 days of teaching at best from 7:30am until 2:30pm which included a lunch period, home room, and time off between periods. 11 - 12 days off for Christmas and Easter, Thursday thru Sunday off at Thanksgiving along with 10 days in June, all of July, all of August. That doesn't even compare to the 2080 hour work year for the minimal employee and much more for more dedicated employees. Along with a very generous pension. Most people would gladly trade for those benefits. And please don't embarrass your self by saying they could have chosen that path also. They don't even compare to the engineering degrees, be it chemical, civil, or electrical degrees.

You didn't have even one of your "facts" correct. Only one that embarrassed themselves was you.

[jbdlfan]

Originally Posted by johnboy

Get real 180 days of teaching at best from 7:30am until 2:30pm which included a lunch period, home room, and time off between periods. 11 - 12 days off for Christmas and Easter, Thursday thru Sunday off at Thanksgiving along with 10 days in June, all of July, all of August. That doesn't even compare to the 2080 hour work year for the minimal employee and much more for more dedicated employees. Along with a very generous pension. Most people would gladly trade for those benefits. And please don't embarrass your self by saying they could have chosen that path also. They don't even compare to the engineering degrees, be it chemical, civil, or electrical degrees.

HAHAHAHAHA! Wow....just wow. You are sadly very uninformed about every one of your points! First...you have no idea about my pension, if you did, you would have never brought that up. Next, I work on AVERAGE 50-55 hours a week while school is in session. I work a good deal of my summer planning, unpaid training and data mining. As a master of my craft, I continually work at getting better by whatever means. If I work an extra three hours a day during the school year, which myself and many of my colleagues do, That is only 100 hours short of your golden 2080. Sorry, but I easily make that up on my weekends and summers. But hey, what do I know, I'm JUST a teacher....

[jbdlfan]

Oh, and I forgot, the $500 a year I spend out of my own pocket for supplies....

[DougB]

Originally Posted by jbdlfan

HAHAHAHAHA! Wow....just wow. You are sadly very uninformed about every one of your points! First...you have no idea about my pension, if you did, you would have never brought that up. Next, I work on AVERAGE 50-55 hours a week while school is in session. I work a good deal of my summer planning, unpaid training and data mining. As a master of my craft, I continually work at getting better by whatever means. If I work an extra three hours a day during the school year, which myself and many of my colleagues do, That is only 100 hours short of your golden 2080. Sorry, but I easily make that up on my weekends and summers. But hey, what do I know, I'm JUST a teacher....

I guess Johnnieboy is also unaware that school started today in Sumter Cty. So much for having August off.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by johnboy

Get real 180 days of teaching at best from 7:30am until 2:30pm which included a lunch period, home room, and time off between periods. 11 - 12 days off for Christmas and Easter, Thursday thru Sunday off at Thanksgiving along with 10 days in June, all of July, all of August. That doesn't even compare to the 2080 hour work year for the minimal employee and much more for more dedicated employees. Along with a very generous pension. Most people would gladly trade for those benefits. And please don't embarrass your self by saying they could have chosen that path also. They don't even compare to the engineering degrees, be it chemical, civil, or electrical degrees.

"Get real." "Most people" who gripe about teachers being overpaid are the same ones who cannot wait for their kids to go back to school in the fall, because they cannot manage and focus the energy of their own 2 kids, much less 20 or 30 kids in a classroom.

Such parents and "experts" would not last 2 hours in charge of a classroom of 20+ kids who get no parenting and no discipline at home, have serious learning disabilities of widely varying types and degrees of severity, and for whom the teacher is required to design customized lesson planning for each of them in addition to the whole-class lesson planning!

And then there are the people with engineering, math and science degrees supposedly worth so much more.....ah, yes....the math brains who love numbers but cannot communicate with other human beings, much less teach them at their level.

Of course not all are like this, but I know several bright, talented and creative engineers who got out of it because of the robotic personalities they were immersed in, in cubicles. And other engineers I know are content and stay in it because they do not like people....they like numbers.

Suffice it to say that comparing teachers to engineers is comparing apples to oranges. Every profession, trade, and vocation demands the right combination of brains and interpersonal skills and qualities.

[Fourpar]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Compared to the school systems in NY and NJ, which we experienced with two kids in elementary and Jr. high in the '80s to '90s, I would say the MI schools lag behind a bit. But I am not condemning them. Our kids went on to good schools and became successful. There were definitely a couple teachers who needed to retire or be retired (burned out for good), but I don't blame the school system for that.

And yes, there are some great universities in MI. U of M and Wayne State in Detroit come to mind. Kalamazoo College is very top notch, as are some of the other private schools.

...Add CMU to that list? :-)

[gomoho]

So the parents blame the teachers and the teachers blame the parents and in the meantime we are raising a bunch of kids that don't know how to make change. I blame changing the curriculum - go back to reading, writing and arithmetic and give kids the basics to go out into this world with.

[PammyJ]

Originally Posted by gomoho

So the parents blame the teachers and the teachers blame the parents and in the meantime we are raising a bunch of kids that don't know how to make change. I blame changing the curriculum - go back to reading, writing and arithmetic and give kids the basics to go out into this world with.

I am not sure about the blame game! I don't buy into it at all! It is a fact, that students who come from certain types of families who value education do better to be brief! All students can learn, that is my challenge as an educator!
Last time I went to work, today, I thought we were still teaching basics........

I agree about the change counting though! This is a consequence of retailers relying on technology so much. It is hard for them to think for themselves when the technology doesnt work. Counting back change and handing it back to the customer, coins first then bills has gone by the wayside! I really hate getting a mountain in my hand I cannot manipulate! Then they stick the receipt on top of the coins! Try to get that in your purse without dropping something!!!! Maybe one day I will get enough nerve to suggest to these people at the checkouts how easy it is for the Vito Ed if you do coins in palm then bills!