[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Anti-trackers = anti-vaxxers.

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS! Or are you, comrade?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

But it most certainly is your choice. It is your choice not to partake in activities and all sorts of other daily life events that can help to spread the virus. Folks that are vaccinated will not spread the virus and therefore should be able to partake in all activities life has to offer.

I see I have hurt some feelings here and so sorry you do not see it my way. But.....that is the way it is. My wishes may not come to fruition so there is that, if that makes you feel any better.

Over and out. I'm done with this conversation.

Probably 99% of Americans don't see it "your way"

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Packer Fan

I am specifically going to not reply directly to anyone here, but write a post based on reading the whole thread. Overall a decent discussion, but there were a few HUGE falsehoods too, one that was scarey in how off base it was. Please read my whole post before you comment. Let me preface by saying I am still working and own 2 houses in TV. I am 57 and have an Engineering degree and an MBA and my wife, who agrees with everything I am going to write is a nurse with 35 years of experience and now is a district nurse in a school system. We are both conservatives. My wife has been vacinated with the Pfizer vaccine, my CNA daughter with the Moderna, as well as my daughter in law who is a Dental assistant. I will get vaccinated as soon as I can.
I have read everything on the vaccines INCLUDING the entire scientific reports on the Moderna and Pfizer phase 1/2 and 3 studies. I will read the J&J when it is available. What's more important is I UNDERSTAND THE STATISTICS AND WHAT THEY MEAN. I have taught basic statistics at the college level in fact as an adjunct professor.

1. This virus is a real pain in the butt. For the VAST majority of people, it is no big deal(I have MANY employees that have had it, for most it was a headache or being tired a few days). HOWEVER, for some, especially the old, it kills them. It also does kill a small number of people you would not expect it to seamingly at random. For the most part it really does not hurt kids. Seriously, it is way less deadly to those under 25 than the Flu. People that are worried about their kids or grandkids should stop - worry about your elderly relatives in The Villages! I would rather get the vaccine than play russian roulette with my life.
2. These vaccines are effective and SAFE. The sample sizes in this study are HUGE. The p values are such that application of these statistics to conclusions about the population is basically a certainty. There are some side effects that pass quickly. The one side effect that happens in people with a history of alergic reactions can be treated with an Epi pen. NOBODY HAS DIED FROM THE VACCINE in the trials. Statistically, based on the trial data, it would be more likely that you have a car accident while being struck by lightning and having a heart attack all at the same time than dying from this vaccine.
3. Long term side effects- ok, seriously? What crazyperson have you been listening to that you got the video from your consiracy theory loving cousin in Facebook personal messenger? Come on, we all are getting this crazy crap. So here is the reality - there are hundreds of vaccines and ZERO have ever had side effects more than a few weeks out. That is why they insist the trials run for at least 2 months. Now, maybe you make the case that the new mRNA vaccines are new technology, so we are not sure. OK, then take the J&J vaccine when it is approved next month - that is OLD PROVEN TECHNOLOGY. On top of that, you do realize this is a few micrograms of material that can't replicate right? You should read the boxes you are eating your food out of and by WAY more worried about all the chemicals in that than in these vaccines.
4. Lots of people dying from the vaccine - please refer to number 2 above, but let me say that like 8000 people die every day in the USA, mostly the elderly but not exclusively. The chances of a few of those having had the vaccine in the past few days is just about certain since we are giving 1.3 million doses a day. EVERY ONE OF THESE is being publicized in the media, and they are all being investigated by the CDC. NONE have been found to be caused by the vaccine, and they won't be. This notion is as crazy as people who think vaccines cause Autism because some crazy actress said it did.
5. Masks and shutdowns. ok, so have you noticed that the places that have the toughest mask mandates and lockdowns have had the biggest spikes???? I can read a graph, Masks do zero. Lockdowns are effective, IF they are like the Chinese and you actually lock everyone down, but we don't do that and can't, so the virus keeps spreading. It makes our rulers feel good, but just hurts small business.
6. Tracking - here we get to it. We have laws in this country- a right to privacy, HIPAA, ADA that will prevent this. Also, I believe the vast majority including most of us who will be getting vacinated don't think it is good. It is tyranny and fascism. It is mainly being pushed by the "My body, my choice" crowd, but I guess this is somehow different when it actually IS my body? I think not. The difference between this and requiring vaccinations in schools to me comes down to this - if you don't want to get vaccinated, that is up to you, if you don't want to vaccinate your kids, that is hurting another human being- have you seen the results of getting polio? Not vaccinating your kids with proven vaccines that have been around for decades and been proven safe is just wrong. Sorry. Even that is pushing the line to some extent, but the line IS a grey one, we all know that.
7. Herd immunity- yes, this is important. Even the 20 and 30 somethings should get vacinnated so we reach herd immunity - the main reason is these annoying variants. If you have lots of people with Covid, lots of chances for variants, if not, less chances. Simple as that. The quicker we get to herd immunity, the better.

Here is my bottom line- If you have had Covid-19 with minor symptoms, I believe you should wait until at least the summer to get vaccinated - you have the antibodies and even if you get it again, probably won't be bad. Let others get vacinnated first. If you have not and are over 50, I think you are crazy not to get vaccinated unless you have serious allergic reactions to things. If you have concerns, get the J&J vaccine that should be available in March. If you don't, it's like playing Russian roulette, sorry, it is if you don't get vaccinated. ALL 3 vaccines have had ZERO people end up in the hospital with Covid after being vaccinated, it makes it non deadly. I do understand the people who are 30 that work for me saying they don't need it, but even most of them are going to get it after the older people do, so we can reach herd immunity and maybe we can get rid of it completely - we will see.

Absolutely, positively 110% right on! Now, if only the paranoid among us would read your post and understand it.........

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Smallpox is making a comeback in some 3rd world countries and it could also be in the anti-vaxxers in the US.

Source????Proof????? Oh, I thought so.
Don't go around spreading crap and tell me you are fertilizing TOTV

[riley2011]

Maybe it’s none of your business who gets the vaccine. Take care of yourself.

[Trishakaye]

Do you know how many people died from TB in 2020?

[Mrodmh]

The flu vaccine is NOT required for school kids. Nor is Gardisil or meningitis vaccines. Your suggestions are very alarming and your assumptions are just that. You have unwarranted faith in the experimental drugs. Time will tell.

[Pat2015]

Not everyone is going to be able to take this vaccine due to their medical history. Sounds a little Nazi/Communist like to dictate to people what they are required to do to their own body. Are yellow stars going to be issued/required so we can easily identify who the people are who haven’t gotten the vaccine?

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Absolutely, positively 110% right on! Now, if only the paranoid among us would read your post and understand it.........

My question is since so many people get the virus and have little or no symptoms how do they even know how many people have actually had it? Could we be reaching herd immunity and not even know it?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

My question is since so many people get the virus and have little or no symptoms how do they even know how many people have actually had it? Could we be reaching herd immunity and not even know it?

Possible but unlikely. The only way to know would be to test over 1/2 the population for antibodies. Maybe a previous poster would like to "mandate" that as well

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Possible but unlikely. The only way to know would be to test over 1/2 the population for antibodies. Maybe a previous poster would like to "mandate" that as well

So everyone should get the vaccine even if they might have had the virus?

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

My question is since so many people get the virus and have little or no symptoms how do they even know how many people have actually had it? Could we be reaching herd immunity and not even know it?

Interview this morning with George Stephanopoulos and the president of Moderna.
Moderna stated that we could possibly reach herd immunity with 50 to 70% vaccinations.He hopes that percentage will be by June. So the myth of 100% vaccinated may not be true. But who to believe the President of Moderna, or a posters on TOTV, that those who can’t take the vaccine should be hunted down. I’m going with Moderna President and Physician

Six months from now I hope there is more intelligent conversations on this site other than vaccines and masks.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bev Fricks

I can tell you this! I am an RN and I do COVID-19 vaccinations. I have access to the cards that YOU think can be forged!! How dare you?? We are professionals and NO ONE where I work would ever forge anything! We have licenses to protect. These cards are not left out to the public, just like the vaccines, they are protected by lock and key. Let's tattoo it on your forehead so you feel better.
Bev, RN.

I never implied health care workers would forge the vaccination card but there are plenty of bad people out there that will. I'm not the only person who believes a Covid vaccination card can be forged. Blank Covid Vaccination cards are already on the internet. I'm sure there are plenty of tech savvy folks who will print these cards. This is just one example. and the reason a digital record is the better way to go.

I don't know how to post a photo on this site so all I can do is provide a link........

COVID-19 vaccination card :: WRAL.com

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by thelegges

Six months from now I hope there is more intelligent conversations on this site other than vaccines and masks.

Let's remember that this is still TOTV.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I never implied health care workers would forge the vaccination card but there are plenty of bad people out there that will. I'm not the only person who believes a Covid vaccination card can be forged. Blank Covid Vaccination cards are already on the internet. I'm sure there are plenty of tech savvy folks who will print these cards. This is just one example. and the reason a digital record is the better way to go.

I don't know how to post a photo on this site so all I can do is provide a link........

COVID-19 vaccination card :: WRAL.com

So, do people walk around with "digital proof" they had the polio vaccine, or pertussis??? The following from the CDC lists diseases with an available vaccine. Together these illnesses have killed hundreds of millions yet they are not "mandated" and no one has suggested we carry "digital proof" of any. In the scheme of things, as pandemics go, COVID is a minor player. It is the "flavor of the month", what amazes me is the reaction to COVID is so much different than avian flu, or SARS or MERS or swine flu. It has been a polarizing force, given birth to a new religion (the holy mask), changed social interactions, changed education and the workplace. Now there are those that would sacrifice our rights and freedoms for what they perceiveas a little safety, enforced by the government, and them cram their ideas down everyone else's throat. Seig heil!

List of Vaccines Used in United States
Links to Clinical info about the vaccine

Adenovirus
Anthrax
AVA (BioThrax)
Cholera
Vaxchora
Diphtheria
DTaP (Daptacel, Infanrix)
Td (Tenivac, generic)
DT (-generic-)
Tdap (Adacel, Boostrix)
DTaP-IPV (Kinrix, Quadracel)
DTaP-HepB-IPV (Pediarix)
DTaP-IPV/Hib (Pentacel)
Hepatitis A
HepA (Havrix, Vaqta)
HepA-HepB (Twinrix)
Hepatitis B
HepB (Engerix-B, Recombivax HB, Heplisav-B)
DTaP-HepB-IPV (Pediarix)
HepA-HepB (Twinrix)
Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
Hib (ActHIB, PedvaxHIB, Hiberix)
DTaP-IPV/Hib (Pentacel)
Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
HPV9 (Gardasil 9) (For scientific papers, the preferred abbreviation is 9vHPV)
Seasonal Influenza (Flu) only
IIV* (Afluria, Fluad, Flublok, Flucelvax, FluLaval, Fluarix, Fluvirin, Fluzone, Fluzone High-Dose, Fluzone Intradermal)
*There are various acronyms for inactivated flu vaccines – IIV3, IIV4, RIV3, RIV4 and ccIIV4.
LAIV (FluMist)
Japanese Encephalitis
JE (Ixiaro)
Measles
MMR (M-M-R II)
MMRV (ProQuad)
Meningococcal
MenACWY (Menactra, Menveo)
MenB (Bexsero, Trumenba)
Mumps
MMR (M-M-R II)
MMRV (ProQuad)
Pertussis
DTaP (Daptacel, Infanrix)
Tdap (Adacel, Boostrix)
DTaP-IPV (Kinrix, Quadracel)
DTaP-HepB-IPV (Pediarix)
DTaP-IPV/Hib (Pentacel)
Pneumococcal
PCV13 (Prevnar13)
PPSV23 (Pneumovax 23)
Polio
Polio (Ipol)
DTaP-IPV (Kinrix, Quadracel)
DTaP-HepB-IPV (Pediarix)
DTaP-IPV/Hib (Pentacel)
Rabies
Rabies (Imovax Rabies, RabAvert)
Rotavirus
RV1 (Rotarix)
RV5 (RotaTeq)
Rubella
MMR (M-M-R II)
MMRV (ProQuad)
Shingles
RZV (Shingrix)
Smallpox
Vaccinia (ACAM2000):
Tetanus
DTaP (Daptacel, Infanrix)
Td (Tenivac, generic)
DT (-generic-)
Tdap (Adacel, Boostrix)
DTaP-IPV (Kinrix, Quadracel)
DTaP-HepB-IPV (Pediarix)
DTaP-IPV/Hib (Pentacel)
Tuberculosis
Typhoid Fever
Typhoid Oral (Vivotif)
Typhoid Polysaccharide (Typhim Vi)
Varicella
VAR (Varivax)
MMRV (ProQuad):
Yellow Fever
YF (YF-Vax)