[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

New study shows that if the police make fewer stops, there is an increase in homicides.

I guess defunding the police has consequences.

New Statistical Evidence Supports the "Minneapolis Effect" as an Explanation for Increases in Homicides

Originally Posted by Dlpdo

Given it is overtly obvious that the writer is not talking about illegal weapons and guns I assume your reply was written just to be nasty. You may be willing to give up your protection against being searched for no reason without a warrant but I would guess most people wouldn’t.

Originally Posted by Dlpdo

The old if I feel this way then everybody else should feel this way and have the same opinion as I do and if they don’t they must be guilty of something argument. Sad, just sad.

Looks like it's time for a remedial vocabulary lesson:

What's "sad, just sad" is 26 people shot, 6 fatally in Chicago just this past weekend alone. I wonder if you would feel the same way about stop and frisk if you were one of these victims or their families?

What's possibly "nasty" is when I point out that anyone thinks posts regarding stop and frisk are "overtly and obviously" unrelated to the thread on reduced police stops increase homicides needs a refresher in reading comprehension. And btw, in most jurisdictions, the police do not needs a search warrant when they have stopped someone on the street for suspicious activity or an observed infraction.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Looks like it's time for a remedial vocabulary lesson:

What's "sad, just sad" is 26 people shot, 6 fatally in Chicago just this past weekend alone. I wonder if you would feel the same way about stop and frisk if you were one of these victims or their families?

What's possibly "nasty" is when I point out that anyone thinks posts regarding stop and frisk are "overtly and obviously" unrelated to the thread on reduced police stops increase homicides needs a refresher in reading comprehension. And btw, in most jurisdictions, the police do not needs a search warrant when they have stopped someone on the street for suspicious activity or an observed infraction.

True.

Increased police stops do two things: 1. They get contraband (guns, drugs, whatever) off the streets, AND 2. The very likelihood of being stopped and frisked means in my opinion that criminals will be less likely to carry said contraband in public in the first place.

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

To me, those two statements are contradictory.

I am on the side of protecting our rights, however we really need to address the issue brought up concerning why a small percent of the population is responsible for a large percent of crime. We ignore it, and it does no one any good. Talking about it is a positive. No one wants to send their kids to failing schools, fear for the safety of their kids walking to school, be concerned about gangs like MS13 and Latin Kids getting involved with their children. It needs to be honestly discussed.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Whitley

I am on the side of protecting our rights, however we really need to address the issue brought up concerning why a small percent of the population is responsible for a large percent of crime. We ignore it, and it does no one any good. Talking about it is a positive. No one wants to send their kids to failing schools, fear for the safety of their kids walking to school, be concerned about gangs like MS13 and Latin Kids getting involved with their children. It needs to be honestly discussed.

Totally agree. However when "honest discussion" is defined as "hate speech", you have a...well...problem. We live in a country, and in a time, where the tail routinely wags the dog.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Whitley

I am on the side of protecting our rights, however we really need to address the issue brought up concerning why a small percent of the population is responsible for a large percent of crime. We ignore it, and it does no one any good. Talking about it is a positive. No one wants to send their kids to failing schools, fear for the safety of their kids walking to school, be concerned about gangs like MS13 and Latin Kids getting involved with their children. It needs to be honestly discussed.

Absolutely. But using exaggerated statistics doesn't help the credibility of the argument and some of the attitudes expressed in this thread are counter to what this country is supposed to be all about. I have spent time in countries where *I* was the one who could be stopped and frisked for simply walking down the street - it's not where we should want this country to go.

In concept, stop and frisk might work. In practice, it seemed to use race alone as a "suspicious activity" and generated some ugly statistics. If we truly feel that, "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer," then we cannot accept a system that interferes with the rights of 10,000 citizens in order to remove weapons from 14 of them.

There has to be a way but I sure don't know what it is and I'm concerned that no one else has discovered it yet.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Absolutely. But using exaggerated statistics doesn't help the credibility of the argument and some of the attitudes expressed in this thread are counter to what this country is supposed to be all about. I have spent time in countries where *I* was the one who could be stopped and frisked for simply walking down the street - it's not where we should want this country to go.

In concept, stop and frisk might work. In practice, it seemed to use race alone as a "suspicious activity" and generated some ugly statistics. If we truly feel that, "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer," then we cannot accept a system that interferes with the rights of 10,000 citizens in order to remove weapons from 14 of them.

There has to be a way but I sure don't know what it is and I'm concerned that no one else has discovered it yet.

Where is the exaggeration that 13% of the population commit about 50% of the homicides and 60% of the violent crimes?

(actually about 1/2 of that number, since the majority of the homicides/violent crimes are committed by males...)

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Where is the exaggeration that 13% of the population commit about 50% of the homicides and 60% of the violent crimes?

(actually about 1/2 of that number, since the majority of the homicides/violent crimes are committed by males...)

I remember the numbers given as 76% and 12% but I haven't gone back to check. The actual numbers are surprisingly hard to find.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I remember the numbers given as 76% and 12% but I haven't gone back to check. The actual numbers are surprisingly hard to find.

I agree with a lot of what you have posted in this thread. However, how can you say the statistics are exaggerated if you don't know the "real" statistics?

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by Whitley

gangs like MS13 and Latin Kids

Pretty sure you meant Latin Kings but, not being a gangbanger myself, I can't be sure.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

I agree with a lot of what you have posted in this thread. However, how can you say the statistics are exaggerated if you don't know the "real" statistics?

Because everything I *have* found looks more like 35% and 18%. Still over represented but by a factor of two not six.

I will try again to find a good source for clear numbers.

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I remember the numbers given as 76% and 12% but I haven't gone back to check. The actual numbers are surprisingly hard to find.

We are already splitting into sides. Most agree we need honest discussion, but then throw out words like hate speech. Is saying 6% of the population is responsible for a far higher percent of violent crime than their number (6%) hate speech?. If we do not say the difficult, uneasy things we will never make headway and people will continue to be preyed on by gangs, criminals, and overzealous policing. Talk about getting it from all sides. The good people who want none of it. Feelings are VERY strong on all sides. We shouldn't avoid the subject and we should not discourage speech on the matter. Case in point, I received an infraction from TOTV for the earlier post.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Absolutely. But using exaggerated statistics doesn't help the credibility of the argument and some of the attitudes expressed in this thread are counter to what this country is supposed to be all about. I have spent time in countries where *I* was the one who could be stopped and frisked for simply walking down the street - it's not where we should want this country to go.

In concept, stop and frisk might work. In practice, it seemed to use race alone as a "suspicious activity" and generated some ugly statistics. If we truly feel that, "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer," then we cannot accept a system that interferes with the rights of 10,000 citizens in order to remove weapons from 14 of them.

There has to be a way but I sure don't know what it is and I'm concerned that no one else has discovered it yet.

14 out of 10,000??? Talk about exaggerated statistics. Again, if most of the crimes were committed by purple Norwegians, stopping 10,000 of them would probably yield 8500+ violations. Stopping 10,000 80 year old white women would yield zero. Stop calling it racism. Stop making excuses for criminal behavior and whatever else the bicoastal elitist eggheads dream up and focus on catching the criminals and ideally changing the culture that nurtures them. The people who live in these slums want to be safe as well. Let’s help them out and frisk their kids

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

14 out of 10,000??? Talk about exaggerated statistics. Again, if most of the crimes were committed by purple Norwegians, stopping 10,000 of them would probably yield 8500+ violations. Stopping 10,000 80 year old white women would yield zero. Stop calling it racism. Stop making excuses for criminal behavior and whatever else the bicoastal elitist eggheads dream up and focus on catching the criminals and ideally changing the culture that nurtures them. The people who live in these slums want to be safe as well. Let’s help them out and frisk their kids

Yes, weapons recovered at a rate of 14 individuals for every 10,000 stops as reported in two sources. All citations, arrests, weapons, etc at a rate of 1,210 (I believe) out of every 10,000 stops.

I'm looking up violent crime statistics now and will find the sources for these numbers later.

*** Anyone else interested in helping with this research, please feel free

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I remember the numbers given as 76% and 12% but I haven't gone back to check. The actual numbers are surprisingly hard to find.

Regardless, they are so far out of balance that it shows a problem...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Yes, weapons recovered at a rate of 14 individuals for every 10,000 stops as reported in two sources. All citations, arrests, weapons, etc at a rate of 1,210 (I believe) out of every 10,000 stops.

I'm looking up violent crime statistics now and will find the sources for these numbers later.

*** Anyone else interested in helping with this research, please feel free

Oh, THOSE numbers you believe, but the numbers I cited are "inflated"? SMH...