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-   -   EBOLA - So, do we really have nothing to worry about? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/ebola-so-do-we-really-have-nothing-worry-about-129761/)

sunnyatlast 10-26-2014 08:43 PM
It's interesting how, on the same day NJ and NY governors decided to have the mandatory quarantine of returning workers from ebola hot zones, the Obama administration and CDC were considering the very same thing:

By David Martosko, Us Political Editor for MailOnline and Reuters

Published: 20:21 GMT, 24 October 2014 | Updated: 21:33 GMT, 24 October 2014
The Obama administration is considering imposing a forced quarantine on healthcare workers who return to the United States from the Ebola hot zone of West Africa, after a New York doctor who treated patients there tested positive for the virus on Thursday.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention spokesman Tom Skinner told Reuters on Friday that a mandatory quarantine is one possible plan under discussion by officials from across the administration.

cologal 10-26-2014 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 958842)
I THINK...that three governors have decided to medicalize a political issue.
This woman has NO symptoms and no temperature....why is she being held?

She is getting a lawyer

Quarantined Nurse Kaci Hickox Calls Her Treatment 'Inhumane', Criticizes Chris Christie

JB in TV 10-26-2014 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 958849)
It's interesting how, on the same day NJ and NY governors decided to have the mandatory quarantine of returning workers from ebola hot zones, the Obama administration and CDC were considering the very same thing:

By David Martosko, Us Political Editor for MailOnline and Reuters

Published: 20:21 GMT, 24 October 2014 | Updated: 21:33 GMT, 24 October 2014
The Obama administration is considering imposing a forced quarantine on healthcare workers who return to the United States from the Ebola hot zone of West Africa, after a New York doctor who treated patients there tested positive for the virus on Thursday.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention spokesman Tom Skinner told Reuters on Friday that a mandatory quarantine is one possible plan under discussion by officials from across the administration.
Yeah, and now the White House is putting pressure on those states to end their quarantine.

White House Presses States To End Ebola Quarantine: Report

This white house doesn't like it when states do things they think should be done by the feds.

cologal 10-26-2014 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 958845)
That's not what this CNN report says:

"Kaci Hickox, a nurse under mandatory quarantine for Ebola monitoring in New Jersey, sent CNN this image of the tent where she is being isolated in a New Jersey Hospital on Sunday, October 26. Hospital officials told CNN the indoor tent is in a climate-controlled extended-care facility adjacent to the hospital."

This text shows up in the first still photo under the Story Highlights on the left side.

It does sound awful for her, but this says she does have heat and the tent is in a building.

Quarantined nurse slams state Ebola policy - CNN.com
But she has no symptoms... so why is she being held?

sunnyatlast 10-26-2014 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 958857)
But she has no symptoms... so why is she being held?
Maybe because a fair number of ebola victims don't get fever:
Yet the largest study of the current outbreak found that in nearly 13% of "confirmed and probable" cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and elsewhere, those infected did not have fevers.

The study, sponsored by the World Health Organization and published online late last month by the New England Journal of Medicine, analyzed data on 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola.

The finding that 87.1% of those infected exhibited fever — but 12.9% did not — illustrates the challenges confronting health authorities as they struggle to contain the epidemic.

Ebola research: Fever not a surefire sign of infection - LA Times

JB in TV 10-26-2014 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 958860)
Maybe because a fair number of ebola victims don't get fever:
Yet the largest study of the current outbreak found that in nearly 13% of "confirmed and probable" cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and elsewhere, those infected did not have fevers.

The study, sponsored by the World Health Organization and published online late last month by the New England Journal of Medicine, analyzed data on 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola.

The finding that 87.1% of those infected exhibited fever — but 12.9% did not — illustrates the challenges confronting health authorities as they struggle to contain the epidemic.

Ebola research: Fever not a surefire sign of infection - LA Times
Which would further invalidate checking temperatures as a means to determine if an airline passenger (or anyone, for that matter) is infected with Ebola.

sunnyatlast 10-26-2014 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB in TV (Post 958867)
Which would further invalidate checking temperatures as a means to determine if an airline passenger (or anyone, for that matter) is infected with Ebola.
Yes, but it appeases somebody and so that's good enough for most politicians.

They're not going to admit this virus can't be controlled except for the "dreaded" quarantine.

But if people think a quarantine is "dreaded", they ought to think about having ebola. Far worse than 21 days of solitary boredom while in good health.

cologal 10-26-2014 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 958860)
Maybe because a fair number of ebola victims don't get fever:
Yet the largest study of the current outbreak found that in nearly 13% of "confirmed and probable" cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and elsewhere, those infected did not have fevers.

The study, sponsored by the World Health Organization and published online late last month by the New England Journal of Medicine, analyzed data on 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola.

The finding that 87.1% of those infected exhibited fever — but 12.9% did not — illustrates the challenges confronting health authorities as they struggle to contain the epidemic.

Ebola research: Fever not a surefire sign of infection - LA Times
She was given an Ebola test.... it was NEGATIVE

cologal 10-26-2014 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 958870)
Yes, but it appeases somebody and so that's good enough for most politicians.

They're not going to admit this virus can't be controlled except for the "dreaded" quarantine.

But if people think a quarantine is "dreaded", they ought to think about having ebola. Far worse than 21 days of solitary boredom while in good health.
As long as you are not the one in quarantine when you have been tested for Ebola and the test was negative.

cologal 10-26-2014 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB in TV (Post 958867)
Which would further invalidate checking temperatures as a means to determine if an airline passenger (or anyone, for that matter) is infected with Ebola.
Then why is the American government doing this at 5 airports?

JB in TV 10-26-2014 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 958875)
Then why is the American government doing this at 5 airports?
I suspect because they think it shows that they are doing something to try to control this terrible illness, without fear of being accused of infringing on personal rights. It seems (to me) it is all about image.

graciegirl 10-26-2014 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 958873)
She was given an Ebola test.... it was NEGATIVE
Who knows if she will present with the disease? Maybe she will not. The doctor was not ill for a while and now he is ill.

I know that most of the people I know would not challenge a quarantine, in the same situation. I call that responsible behavior.

Why are you so intent on this? How will you feel if she does become ill? How do you know for certain that she will not become ill? How does she know for certain she will not become ill? If she cared enough to go and help patients that were ill in another country, it seems that she should care enough to protect people in this country. Your idea of what is right and mine are far different.

cologal 10-26-2014 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB in TV (Post 958879)
I suspect because they think it shows that they are doing something to try to control this terrible illness, without fear of being accused of infringing on personal rights. It seems (to me) it is all about image.
Similar making all of us walk through metal detectors, in a large number of airports, which do not find non metal devices.

All show

cologal 10-26-2014 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 958883)
Who knows if she will present with the disease? Maybe she will not. The doctor was not ill for a while and now he is ill.

I know that most of the people I know would not challenge a quarantine, in the same situation. I call that responsible behavior.

Why are you so intent on this? How will you feel if she does become ill? How do you know for certain that she will not become ill? How does she know for certain she will not become ill? If she cared enough to go and help patients that were ill in another country, it seems that she should care enough to protect people in this country. Your idea of what is right and mine are far different.
Gracie perhaps you missed the message I posted about my personal experiences with airport security.

Put yourself in her shoes.... she is not sick, no symptoms means she cannot pass the disease to anyone. She has been tested for Ebola with a negative result.

She cared enough to put herself in harms way to help but if she is not symptomatic then putting her in isolation is NOT protecting anyone. She could be at home instead in a tent without a shower and only a porta potty.

I really don't our ideas of right and wrong are that much different however, our understanding of Ebola transmission is completely different. I am also concerned that other medical professionals will respond negatively to these rules...we have a much better keeping this disease away from our shores by treating it in Africa.

We should know more soon if know one gets sick in NYC from the doctor and this nurse remains Ebola free.

billethkid 10-26-2014 10:51 PM
Has it been proven more than once here in the USA that one Can pass the test today and have a fever tomorrow?
The answer is yes.
The next control point is to quarantine those exposed.....like it or not!
Wait and see is not the way to protect we the people.

JB in TV 10-26-2014 10:59 PM
NY lossens it's quarantine guidelines:

Andrew Cuomo Defends Ebola Quarantines But Loosens Policy

cologal 10-27-2014 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 958900)
Has it been proven more than once here in the USA that one Can pass the test today and have a fever tomorrow?
The answer is yes.
The next control point is to quarantine those exposed.....like it or not!
Wait and see is not the way to protect we the people.
We the people have been wrong... Remember the internment camps?

gomoho 10-27-2014 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 958897)
Gracie perhaps you missed the message I posted about my personal experiences with airport security.

Put yourself in her shoes.... she is not sick, no symptoms means she cannot pass the disease to anyone. She has been tested for Ebola with a negative result.

She cared enough to put herself in harms way to help but if she is not symptomatic then putting her in isolation is NOT protecting anyone. She could be at home instead in a tent without a shower and only a porta potty.

I really don't our ideas of right and wrong are that much different however, our understanding of Ebola transmission is completely different. I am also concerned that other medical professionals will respond negatively to these rules...we have a much better keeping this disease away from our shores by treating it in Africa.

We should know more soon if know one gets sick in NYC from the doctor and this nurse remains Ebola free.

Cologal - unfortunately Dr. Spencer used poor judgement and was about and about in NYC after his return from treating Ebola patients. He now is in the hospital fighting for his life. As a direct result the governor's felt this was the only way to control the possibility of potentially spreading this disease. I agree the CDC says you are not infectious until you present with symptoms; however, the CDC has been caught with their pants down too many times trying to deal with this and quite honestly people don't have much faith in anything they say at this point.

gomoho 10-27-2014 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB in TV (Post 958903)
NY lossens it's quarantine guidelines:

Andrew Cuomo Defends Ebola Quarantines But Loosens Policy
This new policy allows you to have visitors during your quarantine period. Sounds more like house arrest than a quarantine. I don't have any answers just thinking out loud each time they make a move. This certainly is too serious an issue to be making it up as we go along.

twinklesweep 10-27-2014 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 958958)
We the people have been wrong... Remember the internment camps?
Though this is a different subject, rest assured that there are those who would disagree with you (and me) that the internment camps were morally repugnant and simply outrageous.

And for those who are not familiar with the history, during World War II we were fighting three primary enemies: Germany, Italy, and Japan. Americans of Japanese descent were rounded up, taken from their homes, businesses, jobs, lives, and put into internment camps for the duration of the war. Rest assured that Americans of German and Italian descent were NOT treated this way!

Racism was alive and well during those times, and in my opinion it is still true today. In recent years I have heard more overt racist remarks here in TV than I had in several decades preceding. But as I said, this is a whole other subject....

cologal 10-27-2014 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomoho (Post 958962)
Cologal - unfortunately Dr. Spencer used poor judgement and was about and about in NYC after his return from treating Ebola patients. He now is in the hospital fighting for his life. As a direct result the governor's felt this was the only way to control the possibility of potentially spreading this disease. I agree the CDC says you are not infectious until you present with symptoms; however, the CDC has been caught with their pants down too many times trying to deal with this and quite honestly people don't have much faith in anything they say at this point.
Dr. Spencer followed the guidelines for returning medical personnel, that is why he was taking his temperature twice a day. If we look at what has happened over the past few weeks....

Duncan arrives, get sick, is turned away from the hospital, gets sicker returns to the hospital and later dies. 2 hospital workers who had direct contact with his body fluids are infected with the virus. Some 100 people in Ohio are quarantined due to Amber Vinson. Duncan's family are quarantined and a laboratory tech is quarantined on a cruise ship. None of the quarantined parties are infected with the virus.

These virus is difficult to catch a point which seems to be lost on many of the posters here and the general public. Hopefully no one in NYC will get sick as Dr. Spencer was asymptotic when he was out in public. Perhaps if no one gets sick we will all begin to calm down.

cologal 10-27-2014 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomoho (Post 958965)
This new policy allows you to have visitors during your quarantine period. Sounds more like house arrest than a quarantine. I don't have any answers just thinking out loud each time they make a move. This certainly is too serious an issue to be making it up as we go along.
Problem is the nurse who is quarantine is in New Jersey not New York....

graciegirl 10-27-2014 08:19 AM
Would anyone opposed to this woman being in quarantine, allow her to babysit in the next few days for their grandchild?

TexaninVA 10-27-2014 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinklesweep (Post 958967)
Though this is a different subject, rest assured that there are those who would disagree with you (and me) that the internment camps were morally repugnant and simply outrageous.

And for those who are not familiar with the history, during World War II we were fighting three primary enemies: Germany, Italy, and Japan. Americans of Japanese descent were rounded up, taken from their homes, businesses, jobs, lives, and put into internment camps for the duration of the war. Rest assured that Americans of German and Italian descent were NOT treated this way!

Racism was alive and well during those times, and in my opinion it is still true today. In recent years I have heard more overt racist remarks here in TV than I had in several decades preceding. But as I said, this is a whole other subject....
I'm always amused when someone engages in historical revisionism and applies contemporary standards to an earlier era. I don't think it really accomplishes much except to allow some to preen with supposed moral superiority or greater levels of enlightenment etc ... I'm guessing you also opposed the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... but that's another thread.

Anyway, the person who signed the executive order for internment was FDR. In the context of the times, uncertainty and fear, it was considered a prudent precaution. Unfortunate and regrettable I agree, but that's looking back with the luxury of hindsight, thus I don't criticize him for doing it. Any President at the time probably would have made the same decision.

cologal 10-27-2014 08:24 AM
Now this is just crazy
 
A 5 year old who returned from Africa now has a fever but is NOT in isolation but the returning healthcare worker is.. Are ya kidding me!


Report: 5 Year Old Hospitalized In NYC With Possible Ebola Symptoms

cologal 10-27-2014 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexaninVA (Post 958986)
I'm always amused when someone engages in historical revisionism and applies contemporary standards to an earlier era. I don't think it really accomplishes much except to allow some to preen with supposed moral superiority or greater levels of enlightenment etc ... I'm guessing you also opposed the use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... but that's another thread.

Anyway, the person who signed the executive order for internment was FDR. In the context of the times, uncertainty and fear, it was considered a prudent precaution. Unfortunate and regrettable I agree, but that's looking back with the luxury of hindsight, thus I don't criticize him for doing it. Any President at the time probably would have made the same decision.
Doesn't matter who signed it.....The policy was wrong.

If your question of the use of the atomic bomb is directed to me....nope I agree we needed to use it, my father-in-law worked at the Hanford Project.

graciegirl 10-27-2014 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 958984)
Would anyone opposed to this woman being in quarantine, allow her to babysit in the next few days for their grandchild?
Bumping my own post.

I just heard this quarantined nurse interviewed on CNN. She was nearly in tears over her plight.

I don't think she promotes her cause. I wonder WHY she went to help Ebola patients. She seems angry to be inconvenienced, not like the calm, common sense, dedicated, people I know who are nurses.

When asked if she thought that there was NO risk, she said "Of course there is a risk, but it is very low."

I am for the teams treating Ebola patients here in the U.S. to be separated from the populace.

I hope this is soon a non issue and I appear foolish. This is a disease with no cure, no prevention and a huge mortality rate.

billethkid 10-27-2014 08:38 AM
what I need from some who are against the qurantine is an understanding of what they think should be done under the following circumstances:

A person is either from the hot zone or has been exposed to infected patients.
The person shows no signs of ebola and is allowed to fly out.
The person arrives in TV and still does not show any symtoms.
It is published that people so exposed may possibly show symptoms within 21 days of exposure, which means those who showed no symptoms yesterday still have the potential to become infected today.
Should these people be allowed to visit the squares?
Attend a function at Savannah Center?
Have dinner across the table with you at Arnold Palmers?
Ride on the bus sitting next to you?
Attend a wine tasting at GarVinos in line ahead of you?

Remembering these folks can still become symptomatic and infected at anytime along the way during the above.

Is that OK?

Sophie11 10-27-2014 08:41 AM
Another Suspected Case
 
5 year old boy in NYC.

AOL.com Article - Boy observed in NYC hospital for Ebola; states firm on quarantines

graciegirl 10-27-2014 08:47 AM
Huge bi-partisan support for Ebola quarantine.

High support for Ebola quarantine


AND, in case you wondered as I did what yougov.com is. Here is that answer. It is based in UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouGov

cologal 10-27-2014 09:04 AM
Nurse in New Jersey to be released today to her home in Maine!!!!

cologal 10-27-2014 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 959002)
what I need from some who are against the qurantine is an understanding of what they think should be done under the following circumstances:

A person is either from the hot zone or has been exposed to infected patients.
The person shows no signs of ebola and is allowed to fly out.
The person arrives in TV and still does not show any symtoms.
It is published that people so exposed may possibly show symptoms within 21 days of exposure, which means those who showed no symptoms yesterday still have the potential to become infected today.
Should these people be allowed to visit the squares?
Attend a function at Savannah Center?
Have dinner across the table with you at Arnold Palmers?
Ride on the bus sitting next to you?
Attend a wine tasting at GarVinos in line ahead of you?

Remembering these folks can still become symptomatic and infected at anytime along the way during the above.

Is that OK?
From the hot zone is different than being exposed to Ebola patients.

If the person has a fever how ever low they should be watched and tested for Ebola.

JB in TV 10-27-2014 09:20 AM
A phrase used often during the recent Ebola outbreak is "an abundance of caution"... I believe that this is the case with these states originally requiring the quarantine after the doc showed signs of Ebola in NYC. Better to act quickly and try to stop anyone who possible could spread the disease to the large population of people in the NYC area then to risk a large amount of people getting sick. Now it seems that she will be allowed out of quartantine. Good news, I suppose. I sincerely hope that she doesn't become infected with this terrible disease.

With that said, I believe that the conditions this nurse we have been discussing had to endure were less than satisfactory, at least as reported. None of us were there to actually see her situation. And, as some others have said, she doesn't really seem to be the type of person ususally associated with the caring medical folks who volunteer their valuable time and skills to help others who are suffering. I'm sure she was glad to be back from W Africa, and was looking forward to being "home" as any of us would have been, but the thought that she might have been a threat to millions should have been obvious to her. Threatening to sue the state who quaranteed her to try to protect millions of others? REALLY???

billethkid 10-27-2014 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 959028)
From the hot zone is different than being exposed to Ebola patients.

If the person has a fever how ever low they should be watched and tested for Ebola.
So if my hypothetical visitor to TV was ONLY exposed to ebola patients it would be OK for them to participate among us here in TV as I lined out in my post?

cologal 10-27-2014 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 959034)
So if my hypothetical visitor to TV was ONLY exposed to ebola patients it would be OK for them to participate among us here in TV as I lined out in my post?
Here you go...the guidelines


Interim Guidance for Monitoring and Movement of Persons with Ebola Virus Disease Exposure | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

graciegirl 10-27-2014 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 959046)

I ask again, would those who oppose quarantine of this nurse, feel comfortable with her baby sitting their grandchild?

http://info.isabelhealthcare.com/Por...esized-600.png

cologal 10-27-2014 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 959050)
I ask again, would those who oppose quarantine of this nurse, feel comfortable with her baby sitting their grandchild?

http://info.isabelhealthcare.com/Por...esized-600.png
The treatment of this nurse was harsh.... now even Christie is backing off his original position. So I ask you if you were a medical professional and knew you would be treated this way when you returned would you volunteer to help?

I can't answer your question because I don't have a grandchild.

cologal 10-27-2014 10:20 AM
Several governors decided to impose a mandatory quarantine before they thought about the implementation of such a ban. In earlier posts I commented on the fact that the Public Health Service Hospitals and their quarantine stations were shutdown by the Reagan administration. So when this nurse landed there was no where to take her and she ended up in a tent outside the hospital in a different building.

Now she is being released to travel home to stay under quarantine in her home.

gomoho 10-27-2014 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 958979)
Dr. Spencer followed the guidelines for returning medical personnel, that is why he was taking his temperature twice a day. If we look at what has happened over the past few weeks....

Duncan arrives, get sick, is turned away from the hospital, gets sicker returns to the hospital and later dies. 2 hospital workers who had direct contact with his body fluids are infected with the virus. Some 100 people in Ohio are quarantined due to Amber Vinson. Duncan's family are quarantined and a laboratory tech is quarantined on a cruise ship. None of the quarantined parties are infected with the virus.

These virus is difficult to catch a point which seems to be lost on many of the posters here and the general public. Hopefully no one in NYC will get sick as Dr. Spencer was asymptotic when he was out in public. Perhaps if no one gets sick we will all begin to calm down.

You completely missed my point that people no longer believe what they are being told because there have been so many mistakes made and situations where they make it up as we go along. Absolutely no confidence in what the CDC, the administration, the WHO, the NHI or any of the other muckety-mucks say at this point.

gomoho 10-27-2014 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cologal (Post 958987)
A 5 year old who returned from Africa now has a fever but is NOT in isolation but the returning healthcare worker is.. Are ya kidding me!


Report: 5 Year Old Hospitalized In NYC With Possible Ebola Symptoms
The article you linked us to actually says he is hospitalized and in isolation.


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