[Nellmack]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I can understand that electric vehicles would help the environment if the electricity for charging the vehicles could be generated from renewable sources, like solar and wind. But, currently, very little of our electricity is generated that way. Couldn't we help the environment more by getting power plants to generate all electricity from renewable souces, especially our houses? You said that you drive an electric vehicle for the environment, but you are charging your vehicle from your house electricity that is most likely generated from fossil fuels. How does that help the environment?

That's a great question and I see it being addressed by people on ToTV that don't understand EV's. It's actually a pretty easy answer. Combustion Engine vehicles operate at (approx) 30% efficiency Electric Vehicles operate at (approx) 80% efficiency. That means that driving EV's are 50% better for the environment than driving ICE vehicles.

There's a reason every car manufacturer is moving to EVs. The technology is finally here and it's improving every year. The cars are far superior, test drive one you'll see for yourself. Their cheaper to operate (I had a car for 7 years - zero maintenance - no brakes) I use to spend a fortune on breaks. They're better for the environment and that will improve as we switch to solar and wind. AND Oil will not last forever. Good luck with your research.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Nellmack

That's a great question and I see it being addressed by people on ToTV that don't understand EV's. It's actually a pretty easy answer. Combustion Engine vehicles operate at (approx) 30% efficiency Electric Vehicles operate at (approx) 80% efficiency. That means that driving EV's are 50% better for the environment than driving ICE vehicles.

There's a reason every car manufacturer is moving to EVs. The technology is finally here and it's improving every year. The cars are far superior, test drive one you'll see for yourself. Their cheaper to operate (I had a car for 7 years - zero maintenance - no brakes) I use to spend a fortune on breaks. They're better for the environment and that will improve as we switch to solar and wind. AND Oil will not last forever. Good luck with your research.

I admit that I am not an energy expert. But, I don't think you can just compare the efficiency of an electric vehicle to the efficiency of a gasoline vehicle. You also need to consider the efficiency of the power plant that burns the fossil fuel to generate the electricity that charges the electric vehicle. That efficiency is only about 33 percent. A gasoline vehicle burns the fossil fuel directly inside the vehicle, whereas the electric vehicle needs to get electricity from a power plant that is only 33 percent efficient at converting a fossil fuel into electricity. That would seem to indicate that, in terms of converting a fossil fuel into energy to power a vehicle, the gasoline vehicle would actually be more efficient. Maybe an energy expert can explain it better.

[MrChipster]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I admit that I am not an energy expert. But, I don't think you can just compare the efficiency of an electric vehicle to the efficiency of a gasoline vehicle. You also need to consider the efficiency of the power plant that burns the fossil fuel to generate the electricity that charges the electric vehicle. That efficiency is only about 33 percent. A gasoline vehicle burns the fossil fuel directly inside the vehicle, whereas the electric vehicle needs to get electricity from a power plant that is only 33 percent efficient at converting a fossil fuel into electricity. That would seem to indicate that, in terms of converting a fossil fuel into energy to power a vehicle, the gasoline vehicle would actually be more efficient. Maybe an energy expert can explain it better.

I came from Minnesota to the villages last year and here the winter was described as harsh because we had 2 nights in the 20F range.

In Minnesota and north there have been several winters where 35 or more days in a row it never got above freezing. And several winters it never gets above 0F for a week or more.

When you go out to your unheated car when it is -20F it will barely turn over because the battery is so inefficient at that temperature.

I have a friend with a Chevy Volt and it will not even go 20 miles in the winter on cold days. And they keep it in a heated garage. They will not park it on the street or travel more than a few miles from home when it is cold because the fear getting stranded because the batteries might get to cold while parked at the store, movie, show, restaurant etc…

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

///

The don't shop like we do. They have smaller kitchens and refrigerators. They shop for a day or two at a time. They don't come home with "12 bags of groceries"...

And no, they are not "convenience shops"... They are full service specialty shops. You go to this shop to get your bread, that shop to get your cheese, another to buy meat, vegetables, etc...

Yes, they have grocery stores, but they are nothing like the ones we have here.

When I traveled in Europe and Scandinavia, I made it a point to go into some of the grocery stores. It was an eye opening experience...

Yes, US cities have buses and taxis, but we don't have the rail systems they have in Europe. People bike/walk everywhere. Most here live too far from their jobs to do that. Many their ride scooters. That is just starting here, with short term rentals of bikes and scooters, but very few bike lanes....

In Amsterdam, there are more bikes than people. Everyone owns two. One cheap one to commute or shop with (that will eventually get stolen), and another nice one for bike trips out in the country...

There are bike lots with thousands of bikes. I don't know how you can even find yours. Most people just grab one, figuring someone else will grab theirs...

In Rome, Vespas are parked everywhere. Tiny, 2 passenger cars are parked like we park our golf carts, 90° to the sidewalk. Very few big sedans, unless you're wealthy...

And thank you for proving my point regarding charging stations. Yes, you're supposed to charge your EV at home, over night... But that is currently impossible for millions and millions of apartment/condo dwellers...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

You can throw yourself on the floor, kick and scream all you want but alternate fuel vehicles are on their way sooner than you think.

When cars first appeared, people claimed they were dangerous, sounds familiar, they also complained there was no infrastructure. So, what happen, people found owning a car was easier than owning a horse.

What really made a change was the money. A new market opened, with an investment by the government building new roads (Infrastructure). Car sales, truck sales, gas stations, motels, restaurants, the country expanded overnight.
The money will make the change again. The government again is making an investment in the infrastructure. Established auto companies and startups have invested millions, some car companies claim they will only make electric cars in the near future. Other companies that see a market tied to the EV are and will start popping up all over.

You might not like it, but you can’t hold back the future and the speed of the future is controlled by the amount of money invested.

Yes, but they are now putting the cart before the horse... Mandating EVs BEFORE they have the infrastructure in place...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Nellmack

That's a great question and I see it being addressed by people on ToTV that don't understand EV's. It's actually a pretty easy answer. Combustion Engine vehicles operate at (approx) 30% efficiency Electric Vehicles operate at (approx) 80% efficiency. That means that driving EV's are 50% better for the environment than driving ICE vehicles.

There's a reason every car manufacturer is moving to EVs. The technology is finally here and it's improving every year. The cars are far superior, test drive one you'll see for yourself. Their cheaper to operate (I had a car for 7 years - zero maintenance - no brakes) I use to spend a fortune on breaks. They're better for the environment and that will improve as we switch to solar and wind. AND Oil will not last forever. Good luck with your research.

No, the reason they are moving to EVs is they know they cannot meet the impending CAFE standards imposed by the Gubmint...

[Glorantha]

The past winter, a major snowstorm stranded hundreds of vehicles on I95 for hours throughout the night. When VDOT started clearing the roads, they could provide a few galleons of gas so the drivers could get their vehicles off the road. Not sure how this would have worked if most vehicles were electric.

According to Elon Musk, the 2035 timetable is unrealistic. IMHO, electric vehicles will play a role as we transition to fuel cells or something like hydrogen.

Lastly, EVs are not as green as people think. The issues with the batteries alone are detrimental to the environment
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XV9ijKAubfU

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

The don't shop like we do. They have smaller kitchens and refrigerators. They shop for a day or two at a time. They don't come home with "12 bags of groceries"...

And no, they are not "convenience shops"... They are full service specialty shops. You go to this shop to get your bread, that shop to get your cheese, another to buy meat, vegetables, etc...

Yes, they have grocery stores, but they are nothing like the ones we have here.

When I traveled in Europe and Scandinavia, I made it a point to go into some of the grocery stores. It was an eye opening experience...

Yes, US cities have buses and taxis, but we don't have the rail systems they have in Europe. People bike/walk everywhere. Most here live too far from their jobs to do that. Many their ride scooters. That is just starting here, with short term rentals of bikes and scooters, but very few bike lanes....

In Amsterdam, there are more bikes than people. Everyone owns two. One cheap one to commute or shop with (that will eventually get stolen), and another nice one for bike trips out in the country...

There are bike lots with thousands of bikes. I don't know how you can even find yours. Most people just grab one, figuring someone else will grab theirs...

In Rome, Vespas are parked everywhere. Tiny, 2 passenger cars are parked like we park our golf carts, 90° to the sidewalk. Very few big sedans, unless you're wealthy...

And thank you for proving my point regarding charging stations. Yes, you're supposed to charge your EV at home, over night... But that is currently impossible for millions and millions of apartment/condo dwellers...

You must have visited about 40 years ago!
OK. The Dutch have always loved their bicycles. The place is as flat as a pancake, and made for them.
As for the rest of your 'observations' regarding fridge sizes, small cars, size of supermarkets etc. I don't know what ancient places you visited, but you must have spent a lot of time in 'oldie medieval' areas.
Most in UK do shop once a week, and we actually have large refrigerators and freezers, washing machines, even dish washers just like yours, and in most cases better made and quieter.
In all our 20+ years wintering in TV we never had a domestic appliance that wasn't capable of rousing the dead when in operation!
Believe it or not, in UK we also have talking and color movies these days as well!
Plus we are installing EV power sources nationwide wherever possible!!

[CFrance]

[QUOTE=JMintzer;2138211]The don't shop like we do. They have smaller kitchens and refrigerators. They shop for a day or two at a time. They don't come home with "12 bags of groceries"...

And no, they are not "convenience shops"... They are full service specialty shops. You go to this shop to get your bread, that shop to get your cheese, another to buy meat, vegetables, etc...

Yes, they have grocery stores, but they are nothing like the ones we have here.

When I traveled in Europe and Scandinavia, I made it a point to go into some of the grocery stores. It was an eye opening experience.."[Clipped].


That's simply not true anymore. Been traveling every year to Europe for 30 years and living here half years for thirteen. In that time we've visited 7 countries. Even the tiniest rural villages have large supermarkets. And the two of the largest, e. leclerc & Carre Four, have refrigerators for sale as big as our French door model in TV. I have yet to be in someone's house or apartment that only has an under-counter fridge. People outfit their own kitchens in Europe, even in rentals, and most have gone to large refrigerators.

Outdoor markets and specialty shops still abound, but you can get anything you want in the supermarkets. Many are even open on Sundays now.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

You must have visited about 40 years ago!
OK. The Dutch have always loved their bicycles. The place is as flat as a pancake, and made for them.
As for the rest of your 'observations' regarding fridge sizes, small cars, size of supermarkets etc. I don't know what ancient places you visited, but you must have spent a lot of time in 'oldie medieval' areas.
Most in UK do shop once a week, and we actually have large refrigerators and freezers, washing machines, even dish washers just like yours, and in most cases better made and quieter.
In all our 20+ years wintering in TV we never had a domestic appliance that wasn't capable of rousing the dead when in operation!
Believe it or not, in UK we also have talking and color movies these days as well!
Plus we are installing EV power sources nationwide wherever possible!!

Very funny thanks for sharing

[fdpaq0580]

[QUOTE=CFrance;2138283]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

The don't shop like we do. They have smaller kitchens and refrigerators. They shop for a day or two at a time. They don't come home with "12 bags of groceries"...

And no, they are not "convenience shops"... They are full service specialty shops. You go to this shop to get your bread, that shop to get your cheese, another to buy meat, vegetables, etc...

Yes, they have grocery stores, but they are nothing like the ones we have here.

When I traveled in Europe and Scandinavia, I made it a point to go into some of the grocery stores. It was an eye opening experience.."[Clipped].


That's simply not true anymore. Been traveling every year to Europe for 30 years and living here half years for thirteen. In that time we've visited 7 countries. Even the tiniest rural villages have large supermarkets. And the two of the largest, e. leclerc & Carre Four, have refrigerators for sale as big as our French door model in TV. I have yet to be in someone's house or apartment that only has an under-counter fridge. People outfit their own kitchens in Europe, even in rentals, and most have gone to large refrigerators.

Outdoor markets and specialty shops still abound, but you can get anything you want in the supermarkets. Many are even open on Sundays now.

There goes the neighborhood. 😏😀

[OhioBuckeye]

What a charging station?

[dsgreen3]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

This is not government control. Government helps pharmaceutical companies bring a drug to existence, but it's the individual companies that supply the public.
In the same way you will find owners of parking lots, Walmart and store like them, office buildings installing charging stations. Why because it's a profit to their bottom line. This is individual investment not government control.

Tell that to the Canadian truck driver protestors who had their bank accounts frozen. If the government has the power to control you it will be to tempting for them not to abuse that power.

[The Chipster]

Originally Posted by NoMoSno

A Jaguar that starts out at $72,000, has an 8-year warranty on the battery, with a replacement cost of $25,000 is hardly a vehicle the masses will buy. Until affordable EVs emerge they will never become mainstream.

I agree with your last statement. But much of the billions of dollars being spent by the big car dealers are for the development of much cheaper EVs, so this will be a natural progression of the EV market. Again, we are at the beginning.

BTW, I bought my Jaguar I-Pace used with 15,000 miles on the odometer. Total price with the $7,500 tax rebate was $43,000. Don't forget about the growing used EV market.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

What a charging station?

Same as a fuel stop for gas, but fast electric charging points for EV's.