[melpetezrinski]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

If that is true, why are the car companies losing $10's of thousands of $$$ on every EV sold?

Tesla is profitable!

I tried to stay out of this conversation because it's pointless to try and convince people that are not ready to hear the truth but I own TESLA stock, so I had to chime in and shut down more lies. TESLA IS PROFITABLE. Also, I laughed at so many posts about hours of charging time and long lines. I guarantee NONE of you have actually driven one and have first hand knowledge. You just regurgitate what the media spews. It only takes about 13 minutes to charge a TESLA from say 5% battery life to 60% battery life, which gives you another 180 miles. And guess what, EVERY supercharger station was 50-60% full, I never had to wait. I don't own an EV but I was forced to drive one from Pennsylvania to Florida when my father in law passed. This is how I know the facts of charging, NOT second hand nonsense. As for cleaner energy, probably not when all things are considered and if you are constantly on the road, you are better served with a ICE.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

"the question is tell me ANYTHING where the EV is superior to the ICE vehicle". Here goes.........the EV has greater acceleration than the ICE. It produces ZERO pollution at the vehicle compared to a lot for a ICE car, truck, or golf cart. note : the pollution produced at the electricity generating plant is easier to contain because it is STATIONARY. The EV has a lower center of gravity so accelerates, brakes, and corners better than a comparable (car, truck, or golf cart) vehicle. The EV is NOT dependent on fossil fuels (which should be saved for medicine). The EV is SAFER because of better braking and less tendency to roll-over. The EV is simpler to manufacture and repair due to MANY fewer parts. The EV is more reliable. With the EV, there are ZERO trips to the gas station and gas lines. No STINKY gas cans with the EV. The EV needs no transmission. The EV prevents global heating, while the ICE vehicle CAUSES it. Global health and longivity would increase with fewer ICE vehicles. EVs are quieter than ICE vehicles. (especially golf carts)
.......It is pretty OBVIOUS from this list of advantages WHY ICE vehicles represent the PAST while EVs represent the FUTURE.

Key term "FUTURE." Like I said before and you admit, it ain't ready for prime time today.
I don't see where being faster to accelerate is deal breaker when going to purchase. But, I am not young anymore and "peeling wheels" is not in my to do list.

"Zero trips to the gas stations and gas lines"??? Are you serious? Twenty mins to charge to 80%? Two cars in front of you waiting to charge means you wait an hour (waste an hour) in your trip.

"Global health and longevity"?? I'm sure folks are concerned about living past 100, right?
"..roll over"??? Been driving for over 60 years and have yet to "roll over." But, if you are worried about rolling over, definitely get a heavier car.

"no transmission"??? Great and an ICE is a ton lighter because it doesn't have to cart around a bunch of batteries. ICE cars are still on the road that were created in the 50's. Think EVs will last that long? Shoot, the batteries are good for about 10 years and cost as much to replace as the cost of an ICE vehicle. Took a little exaggerated leeway on that part, but you get the idea.

So, when did you purchase your EV? Like I said before, I might live long enough to purchase an EV when they are as good as an ICE and as inexpensive to purchase. All I am asking is that I can drive 500-600 miles per day without having to recharge during my trip, not worried about freezing to death in cold weather when the batteries run down, and not worried about it combusting in flooded conditions. Until they can compete with ICE cars, the EV is a luxury/novelty that I won't be spending money on, UNLESS I hit the power ball.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by melpetezrinski

Tesla is profitable!

I guarantee NONE of you have actually driven one and have first hand knowledge. You just regurgitate what the media spews. It only takes about 13 minutes to charge a TESLA from say 5% battery life to 60% battery life, which gives you another 180 miles. And guess what, EVERY supercharger station was 50-60% full, I never had to wait. I don't own an EV but I was forced to drive one from Pennsylvania to Florida when my father in law passed. This is how I know the facts of charging, NOT second hand nonsense. As for cleaner energy, probably not when all things are considered and if you are constantly on the road, you are better served with a ICE.

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.

And the average working Joe can easily afford the cost of a new Tesla, right?
As you said, a person takes a trip or test drives an EV and they become the expert. I am sure that I would enjoy a ride in a Tesla. I rode in a Rolls once, but that did not mean I intended on purchasing one. Talk about a heavy car!
I am still wondering how a working guy is supposed to charge his car overnight if he has to park his car at the curb because he does not have a garage or even a driveway. I guess he could get up earlier than normal and stand in line to charge his EV for 20 mins before going to work. But, just call me "baised"

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

"the question is tell me ANYTHING where the EV is superior to the ICE vehicle". Here goes.........the EV has greater acceleration than the ICE. It produces ZERO pollution at the vehicle compared to a lot for a ICE car, truck, or golf cart. note : the pollution produced at the electricity generating plant is easier to contain because it is STATIONARY. The EV has a lower center of gravity so accelerates, brakes, and corners better than a comparable (car, truck, or golf cart) vehicle. The EV is NOT dependent on fossil fuels (which should be saved for medicine). The EV is SAFER because of better braking and less tendency to roll-over. The EV is simpler to manufacture and repair due to MANY fewer parts. The EV is more reliable. With the EV, there are ZERO trips to the gas station and gas lines. No STINKY gas cans with the EV. The EV needs no transmission. The EV prevents global heating, while the ICE vehicle CAUSES it. Global health and longivity would increase with fewer ICE vehicles. EVs are quieter than ICE vehicles. (especially golf carts)
.......It is pretty OBVIOUS from this list of advantages WHY ICE vehicles represent the PAST while EVs represent the FUTURE.

EV will never be majority of vehicles on road till at least 30 years. By that time we won’t be around to argue about it.

So how do you think most electricity is produced? By wind which seems to know a lot about. Future? In 30 to 100 years maybe. If there still economy to afford them.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.

Nobody cares about fly over states. Deforestation has be taken place for 50 years or more. Next they will be flattening the high shape hills so there won’t be tree in site. Of course they will use EVs to do job cause diesel power so 20th century.

Tesla’s are good EV’s with system in place most places. But they are less than .5% on roads. Besides nobody knows how they will fair in rust belt when salt starts eating away the under side.

[melpetezrinski]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.

No, I'm not an expert but I'm certainly more knowledgeable than you! You DON'T charge a Tesla to 80%. See, more knowledgeable. You charge to 60-65% and that gives you 180-200 miles. If you need more, get an ICE.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Byte1

I am still wondering how a working guy is supposed to charge his car overnight if he has to park his car at the curb because he does not have a garage or even a driveway. I guess he could get up earlier than normal and stand in line to charge his EV for 20 mins before going to work. But, just call me "baised"

NO!

You install an outdoor outlet at your front door and purchase the best extension cord you can find, wrap it around the "reel" you mount to the front of your house. When you get home and park at the curb, you unroll the extension cord & plug in your car. (Make sure you unplug and rewind the cord, before your wife cuts the lawn).

Ready to go in the morning, provided the neighborhood brats didn't unplug it, in the middle of the night.

[melpetezrinski]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

You took a trip in a an EV, so you're obviously and expert.

Charging a Tesla to 80% at one of their "Super Charger" units, takes about 30 minutes.

There are about 2000 of them in the USA. I'd hate to be driving one in the Midwest.

And the great thing about the supercharger network is that the Tesla computer in the car tells you exactly where to stop, how many spots are open, pictures and video cameras, how much juice you will have when you get there and for the next stop, restaurants nearby and how long to charge. And you guessed it, is says to charge to approximately 60% NOT 80. But hey, what do I know, I'm not an expert. However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

You keep insisting that an EV is not the right car for YOU and therefore it is not the right car for ANYONE. There are people in western states that would never buy a car over a truck because they don't have the ground clearance for the back roads and are terrible in the snow. Does that mean that cars are bad or does it mean that their situation requires something that cars cannot provide?

If you frequently drive longer distances and don't have the time to spend at a charging station then an EV as your only vehicle would not work for you. I am currently in that situation but I recognize that others are not, I was not until recently, and I will not be in the future. I wish I had an EV when I was commuting 40 miles to work, it would have saved a huge amount in gas. My family in NY stays withing a 100 mile radius so they would greatly benefit from gas savings. When I stop taking long trips (including driving up to see them) then I will purchase an EV to save on gas. MANY people find an EV to be great today.

It's sad that you spend so much energy trying to convince others that they have made bad choices when clearly, many are very happy with their EVs. As for buyer's remorse, others regret buying that luxury BMW that turns out to be expensive to maintain and operate. I drive a luxury car today but I am really looking forward to the day my driving needs fit the capabilities of an EV so that I can trade up to one of those.

You do realize that the your initial argument is the exact thing we're disagreeing with?

It's those (and we're all quite aware of who they are) who insist, ad nauseam, that EVs are the end all, save all for humanity who are the problem.

I, for example, have continued to repeat that EVs are not the right vehicle FOR ME, at this time. And that if they improve in milage, or MY needs change, I would consider purchasing one...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

TRUE that E-vehicles are in their INFANCY. That needs to be kept in mind. Right now EVs are in a stage of development similar to the early MODEL T Fords. EVs have SO MANY advantages such as reliability, lower center of gravity, better acceleration, less chance of a roll-over, and even one that is NOT often reported------------ease of manufacturing. That manufacturing ease SHOULD eventually put DOWNWARD PRESSURE on the sticker price.
...........Any battery problems and range anxiety will probably be a thing of the past in about 6 years. In Europe new vehicle sales are around 20% for EVs. So, it is likely that the US will get to THAT percentage soon.

Yes, a Tesla is just like a Model T...

And thank you for proving the point I just made...

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

My parents grew up in a smog filled city, where you never saw the stars through the smog. One living into his mid 90's and the other is still alive, I think the hysteria over a shorter life due to gas engines is quite the hype. I am glad that you agree that EVs are not ready for the majority of our citizens. As you say, they have a long way to go to equal the benefits of an ICE. As for ICE vehicles being peaked out when it comes to innovation, I beg to differ with you. There are other forms of fuel that combustion engines can run on that may improve their exhaust. And as for oil being in short supply, I will make you a bet that even if we ever run out in our lifetime, there will be another substitute that will power the ICE veh that will work just as well, and possibly fit in the "Greenies" criteria of protecting the trees. By the way, I am surprised that someone that suggested reducing the human population to help global warming, would be concerned about the longevity of the population's lifespan.

I did NOT say that EVs are NOT ready for the majority of US citizens. Rather that the majority of our citizens are NOT ready to embrace EVs - and this is because people and corporations RESIST change. If people realized the environmental NEED for cleaner air and water, they would flock to EVs and accept some small inconveniences associated with them. And I never said the next sentence about benefits of ICE versus EVs. As I explained in post # 165 ICE vehicles have zero advantages over EVs today. In 1940 when there were only 80 million people in the US and factory pollution was rampant, the additional car and truck pollution was not significant. And people smoked cigars and cigarettes so their lungs were already shot.
.........But the times changed and factories moved to China, catalytic converters were mandated, and US population became 350 million people. With that many cars, trucks, golf carts, and small gas engines producing CO2 - it drifted upwards to the upper atmosphere and began reflecting HEAT, which keeps killing off plant and animal species. 2023 so far has been THE WARMEST in recorded History. China has a much larger population than the US and they are all starting to want automobiles. The graph of world population is practically straight up in recent years. Some famous old-time philosopher said that wars and pestilence keep the earth's population under control. Well, we had Covid which killed millions and now we have wars in the middle east that have the potential to kill that many and we have the nuclear bombs to do it with.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

You do realize that the your initial argument is the exact thing we're disagreeing with?

It's those (and we're all quite aware of who they are) who insist, ad nauseam, that EVs are the end all, save all for humanity who are the problem.

I, for example, have continued to repeat that EVs are not the right vehicle FOR ME, at this time. And that if they improve in milage, or MY needs change, I would consider purchasing one...

It feels like there are different arguments happening. I absolutely agree with your other posts - I just gave up looking at the poster you are disagreeing with some time ago. Some posters are so out I left field that they are no longer worth my time.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by melpetezrinski

Tesla is profitable!

I tried to stay out of this conversation because it's pointless to try and convince people that are not ready to hear the truth but I own TESLA stock, so I had to chime in and shut down more lies. TESLA IS PROFITABLE. Also, I laughed at so many posts about hours of charging time and long lines. I guarantee NONE of you have actually driven one and have first hand knowledge. You just regurgitate what the media spews. It only takes about 13 minutes to charge a TESLA from say 5% battery life to 60% battery life, which gives you another 180 miles. And guess what, EVERY supercharger station was 50-60% full, I never had to wait. I don't own an EV but I was forced to drive one from Pennsylvania to Florida when my father in law passed. This is how I know the facts of charging, NOT second hand nonsense. As for cleaner energy, probably not when all things are considered and if you are constantly on the road, you are better served with a ICE.

Yes, Tesla's profits have dropped by 44%...

Tesla’s Quarterly Profits Plunge 44% - The New York Times

And you're correct. Along the 95 corridor, there are plenty of charging stations. Unfortunately, that is not what is available for the rest of the country...

And you would be wrong. I have driven (and rode in) a Tesla. Cool car, but nothing that special...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Byte1

And the average working Joe can easily afford the cost of a new Tesla, right?
As you said, a person takes a trip or test drives an EV and they become the expert. I am sure that I would enjoy a ride in a Tesla. I rode in a Rolls once, but that did not mean I intended on purchasing one. Talk about a heavy car!
I am still wondering how a working guy is supposed to charge his car overnight if he has to park his car at the curb because he does not have a garage or even a driveway. I guess he could get up earlier than normal and stand in line to charge his EV for 20 mins before going to work. But, just call me "baised"

Don't forget the hundreds of cars per apartment building in most cities...

The power draw would be unfathomable...

But sure, let's mandate that more and more must be produced and purchased per year...

My late mother in law lived in a condo in Boca. There were well over 100 cars parked in her garage. There were TWO EV chargers available...