[jimhoward]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

This is from the Florida statute.

3) Subject to subsection (2), compensation for ordinary services of attorneys in a formal estate administration is presumed to be reasonable if based on the compensable value of the estate, which is the inventory value of the probate estate assets and the income earned by the estate during the administration as provided in the following schedule:
(a) One thousand five hundred dollars for estates having a value of $40,000 or less.
(b) An additional $750 for estates having a value of more than $40,000 and not exceeding $70,000.
(c) An additional $750 for estates having a value of more than $70,000 and not exceeding $100,000.
(d) For estates having a value in excess of $100,000, at the rate of 3 percent on the next $900,000.
(e) At the rate of 2.5 percent for all above $1 million and not exceeding $3 million.
(f) At the rate of 2 percent for all above $3 million and not exceeding $5 million.
(g) At the rate of 1.5 percent for all above $5 million and not exceeding $10 million.
(h) At the rate of 1 percent for all above $10 million.

Probate calculator.

Florida Probate Calculator — Michelle Goff Law

I had an honest attorney tell me that it doesn't take much more time and effort to probate a $5 million dollar estate than it does to probate a $500,000 estate but you pay $255,000 for the $5 million estate and only $30,000 for the $500,000 estate.

That is a very scary chart if it really costs that much and you have a lot of assets.

[Slainte]

Originally Posted by BoneLakeBennie

Here's my experience with my mother's estate. My mother had properties in multiple states, and small brokerage (Fidelity) and checking/savings accounts. Prior to her passing, we set up Transfer on Death Deeds (TODD in many states, similar is Lady Bird Deed in Florida) and made sure I was a beneficiary on all of her brokerage, savings, annuity, etc accounts. I also had power of attorney. To set up TODD's on 3 properties cost ~$500 in lawyer fees. Could I have done it myself? Most likely, but the ramifications of making a mistake were too high for my risk tolerance.

After her passing I provided a copy of the death certificate to the attorney and they filed the paperwork with the property offices and the properties were retitled in my nome. Easy, peasy. I don't recall if there was a cost for that.

For all other accounts I contacted customer service for the company and they pointed me to the forms to file. I filled them out and provided copies of the death certificate and within a short time, the accounts were either transferred to me of I received a check. Again, easy, peasy.

I originally thought a trust would be required, but everything could be handled via TODDs and beneficiary designations.

Hope that helps.

Transfer on Death deeds are great! I hope Florida will allow them. Simple, clear, easy & only a filing fee of about 29, to 50. They can be easily changed if you want to change beneficiaries, and they act as a deed in the title search. They don’t interfere with mortgages or liens, and are easily filed in County records. I hope Florida agrees to accept them as has many states over the last 15 years.
Kudos to you on how well you have handled preparations. People should order about 10 copies of death certificates from the funeral homes or wait until they arrive at the county and get copies.

[Slainte]

Originally Posted by RoseyRed

Never heard of a lady bird deed! Will have to research that one! Thanks for the info!

It’s a life estate deed. (Y currently gets the house., but X retains the right to live here until X’s death. Only then does X’s chosen beneficiary (Y);of the home take both ownership & possession of the house. Until X dies, X has full possession of the house.
In Fl, instead of Transfer on Death Deeds that other states enacted, Fl uses an enhanced Lady Bird Deed where the owner retains the right to live there til death and at owner’s death the beneficiary owns it.
Fl appears to be allowing original owner to retract that Lady Bird deed and change the specified beneficiary to receive the home. Odd, to me, as orig owner only retained the right to reside & maintain property but apparently, in an Enhanced Lady Bird it appears to allow X to change their prior designation of beneficiary of the home and name another.
Check with your local Estate Attorney to ensure you understand fully how the enhanced Lady Bird Deed works & whether you can change the initial beneficiary you named.
IMHO, it Needs simple, clear Transfer on Death Deeds to be approved in Fl. for real estate.

[Dabatts]

I recently lost my husband and we had a Trust. I handled everything myself, easy. A little extra paperwork and maybe an extra 10 days to receive everything related to his estate. The 2 issues I had was a small investment account and a car which was not 8n the trust.
Because I had no probate paperwork, I had to walk away from the investment account. Cost to open probable cost more than the investment was worth. The car loan is still in process because I did not qualify for loan at the time of his death.
My largest cost was a new will for me in Florida because I had an Ohio will and a small fee to have his name removed from the Trust.

[ndf888]

Originally Posted by Aviator1211

Call Millhorn & Shanawany Law Firm on hwy 441. Very knowledgeable and very reasonable price. I couldn't be more pleased with the trust they set up for us.

Ditto! We were able to set up a living trust for $500 about a year ago. As the attorneys explained to us, the trust is only needed for the house(s). This way the kids can sell the house right away without waiting for 6 months if they want to. All other assets (non-tangible + cars) can be handled through TOD, POD, etc.

FYI we had interviewed dozens of attorneys before we came across Millhorn & Shanawany. You cannot believe how May wanted us to list all our assets and insisted on > $10,000 fees.

[ndf888]

Originally Posted by jimhoward

That is a very scary chart if it really costs that much and you have a lot of assets.

Feel free to ignore the chart. It has nothing to do with reality based on my experience in FL. Everything is negotiable.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by ndf888

Ditto! We were able to set up a living trust for $500 about a year ago. As the attorneys explained to us, the trust is only needed for the house(s). This way the kids can sell the house right away without waiting for 6 months if they want to. All other assets (non-tangible + cars) can be handled through TOD, POD, etc.

FYI we had interviewed dozens of attorneys before we came across Millhorn & Shanawany. You cannot believe how May wanted us to list all our assets and insisted on > $10,000 fees.

Another vote for Millhorn & Shanawany , a living trust saves your heirs time and money

[ElDiabloJoe]

A compare / contrast between Pittman Law and Malarkey and Shanawany would be interesting and helpful.

[Fltpkr]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I have spoken to a few attorneys about estate planning and trying to keep costs down such as legal fees; court fees; executor fees; trustee fees; etc. My primary assets are my house, my Fidelity accounts, my Vanguard accounts, and two small checking accounts. That is about 98% of my assets.

Some of them tell me that a living trust is the way to go; others say that probate is a way to go; and others say that I should set up a TOD or POD for the Fidelity, Vanguard, and checking accounts because this will bypass probate. I have been told that if you go through probate, the lawyers will take about 5% of your entire estate. Other people have told me that if you use a living trust, that the lawyers will still take a sizeable portion of your entire estate - but less than 5%

I am more confused now than I was before I started talking to the lawyers. Can someone who has had the actual experience of going through probate or using a living trust or using TOD or POD describe how the process actually works? What were the general costs or fees involved? How long was the process? How difficult was it? Did you have to hire a lawyer? Were the attorney or trustee fees based on the entire value of the estate - or were you able to reduce the amount of the estate for attorney or trustee fees? Thanks.

A cardinal rule is that there is no one size fits all answer to estate planning. There are lots of possible approaches that are best tailored to the individual situation.

Personally, I think you should select a lawyer you are very comfortable with and trust, and generally rely on them, and not get too distracted by others. Of course, use due diligence in selecting and vetting a lawyer. You probably want an experienced estate planning specialist, and trusted friends might have recommendations. Don't get hung up about having to pay a lawyer. You want a good estate plan that works for you and, very importantly, for your heirs. It may be very simple, and it may not. In any event, the lawyer's time and advice will not be free, and don't expect it to be. Also, a good estate planning lawyer will make sure you attend to other important documents -- such as durable powers of attorney, end of life directions, etc. that may be appropriate.

As for personal experience, my wife and I have opted for personal revocable trusts in order to make the handling of our estates as easy as possible on our spouse and/or children after our death and during what will be a difficult time (one of our overriding considerations), and to minimize probate expenses if possible.

Our experience with trusts is that they are a bit tedious to set up, and real estate and financial accounts must be moved into trust if no other good ownership or transfer on death options are practical or do not achieve what you want for after-death division. Trusts cost us several thousand dollars, but they are easy to modify or amend or terminate if you want to, and we have changed ours several times as circumstances changed.

Probate of my mother in law's simple estate cost 3-4K and was not complicated. The executor divided her assets exactly as she provided in her will, leaving no room for dispute. A trust would have been easier. Joint ownership and transfer on death options for her assets were not really practical for personal family reasons.

Good luck on addressing your concerns.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by ndf888

Feel free to ignore the chart. It has nothing to do with reality based on my experience in FL. Everything is negotiable.

Do you know any lawyers in the area that do not follow the statute and that are willing to negotiate the fee?

It would be nice to know if there are any lawyers that will do probate for a fixed amount such as $10,000. When I asked lawyers about fees they said that they are entitled to "reasonable compensation."

The statue goes on to say "compensation for ordinary services of attorneys in a formal estate administration is presumed to be reasonable if based on the compensable value of the estate, which is the inventory value of the probate estate assets and the income earned by the estate during the administration as provided in the following schedule."

The statute does say that

1. There is not a mandatory statutory attorney fee for estate administration.
2. The attorney fee is not required to be based on the size of the estate, and the presumed reasonable fee provided in subsection (3) may not be appropriate in all estate administrations.
3. The fee is subject to negotiation between the personal representative and the attorney.

[miharris]

I set up a Revokable Living Trust with Eric Millhorn. After reviewing all of the options, I found that it was the best strategy for those living on Florida. The cost was reasonable (about $800). However, he made some mistakes in the document, and getting them to follow up with the corrections has been HORRIBLE. They are VERY slow to respond, if they respond at all. So my advice is to set up at RLT, but use a different attorney.

[Michael G.]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

The only reason for going through probate was to be able to sell the house. A title company will not accept a will to transfer ownership of a house.

Set up a "Lady Bird" document for the house.
No probate.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Michael G.

Set up a "Lady Bird" document for the house.
No probate.

It was my mother's house in Maryland. When someone dies owning a house outright, it is difficult to sell it, even if the will leaves you the house.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Michael G.

Set up a "Lady Bird" document for the house.
No probate.

Maybe, assuming the heirs are straight forwards, not all are.