[birdbob]

TOD or POD for the Fidelity, Vanguard, and checking accounts because this will bypass probate. Setting up TOD/POD for investment and checking (if available) is easy. When the time comes you beneficiaries will need to fill out a form and attach death certificate and the money transfers to them. Of course, review beneficiaries often to ensure most current.
My father passed away in Ohio, had no home or vehicle. He had a will, but I never filed it because all his accounts had a TOD in place. Personal belongings - he had left instructions. Nothing to probate....

I setup a Trust using Quicken Willmaker for my Florida home and updated the deed to reflect this and filed with the County.

I would look into Lady Bird vs. Living Trust if all you need to deal with is the home...

[Nancy Rodriguez]

This is helpful. Where did you find it?

Originally Posted by Rainger99

This is from the Florida statute.

3) Subject to subsection (2), compensation for ordinary services of attorneys in a formal estate administration is presumed to be reasonable if based on the compensable value of the estate, which is the inventory value of the probate estate assets and the income earned by the estate during the administration as provided in the following schedule:
(a) One thousand five hundred dollars for estates having a value of $40,000 or less.
(b) An additional $750 for estates having a value of more than $40,000 and not exceeding $70,000.
(c) An additional $750 for estates having a value of more than $70,000 and not exceeding $100,000.
(d) For estates having a value in excess of $100,000, at the rate of 3 percent on the next $900,000.
(e) At the rate of 2.5 percent for all above $1 million and not exceeding $3 million.
(f) At the rate of 2 percent for all above $3 million and not exceeding $5 million.
(g) At the rate of 1.5 percent for all above $5 million and not exceeding $10 million.
(h) At the rate of 1 percent for all above $10 million.

Probate calculator.

Florida Probate Calculator — Michelle Goff Law

I had an honest attorney tell me that it doesn't take much more time and effort to probate a $5 million dollar estate than it does to probate a $500,000 estate but you pay $255,000 for the $5 million estate and only $30,000 for the $500,000 estate.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Nancy Rodriguez

This is helpful. Where did you find it?

It is Florida Law Estates and Trusts § 733.6171

Just a moment....

[Ecuadog]

Originally Posted by birdbob

TOD or POD for the Fidelity, Vanguard, and ...

Small point... Vanguard does not allow beneficiary designation (TOD) on joint accounts. The last surviving account owner must take care of the TOD stuff.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Ecuadog

Small point... Vanguard does not allow beneficiary designation (TOD) on joint accounts. The last surviving account owner must take care of the TOD stuff.

You are correct. At the present time, we have a joint account. I called vanguard about adding secondary beneficiaries and they said that I could not do it. I am in the process of setting up an individual account and transferring all the money from the joint account into the individual account. At that time I can put my wife as the primary beneficiary and add secondary beneficiaries.

If we kept the joint account and we both were killed in a car accident, the money would have to go to probate! No way to avoid it!

Does anyone know the reason why vanguard has this policy?

And it is not a small point! It could cost someone thousands of dollars if the vanguard account had to go through probate!

[rjm1cc]

You want to keep as much of your estate out of probate as you can. An attorney is not needed for these assets. You can log onto your financial institutions websites and add beneficiaries to the accounts. This avoids probate. At your death the institutions will want a copy of your death certificate. You can also ask them what forms they want etc. Thus this part you can do.
Do not add anyone as an owner of any assets. This could tricker gift taxes and if they have legal problems they could become your problems. Not sure of the Lady Bird deed. I think you lose some current wrights. My guess is you might need their permission to sell the home. In Florida look up Summary Probation. This is what you are shooting for.

[Ecuadog]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

You are correct. At the present time, we have a joint account. I called vanguard about adding secondary beneficiaries and they said that I could not do it. I am in the process of setting up an individual account and transferring all the money from the joint account into the individual account. At that time I can put my wife as the primary beneficiary and add secondary beneficiaries.

If we kept the joint account and we both were killed in a car accident, the money would have to go to probate! No way to avoid it!

Does anyone know the reason why vanguard has this policy?

And it is not a small point! It could cost someone thousands of dollars if the vanguard account had to go through probate!

Yes. It's definitely not a small point given simultaneous death.

With your plan, I'm betting that if you do predecease your spouse, she will still have to name her own benficiaries (take care of the TOD stuff). Your secodary beneficiaries won't automatically become her primaries.

As to why Vanguard has this policy, I'm guessing that they just never got around to programming for anything else.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Nancy Rodriguez

This is helpful. Where did you find it?

My understanding is that who ever the executor is can hire an attorney to assist and advise and at fraction of those fees, the executor is the one who collects the percentage
"(1) Attorneys for personal representatives shall be entitled to reasonable compensation payable from the estate assets without court order.

(2) The attorney, the personal representative, and persons bearing the impact of the compensation may agree to compensation determined in a different manner than provided in this section.  Compensation may also be determined in a different manner than provided in this section if the manner is disclosed to the parties bearing the impact of the compensation and if no objection is made as provided for in the Florida Probate Rules. in other words shop around for any legal assistance rather than being ripped off

[rjm1cc]

Originally Posted by Ecuadog

Yes. It's definitely not a small point given simultaneous death.

With your plan, I'm betting that if you do predecease your spouse, she will still have to name her own benficiaries (take care of the TOD stuff). Your secodary beneficiaries won't automatically become her primaries.

As to why Vanguard has this policy, I'm guessing that they just never got around to programming for anything else.

I moved a significant amount of investments out of Vanguard due to this. Note, I did not have to sell anything, just transferred assets to avoid capital gains.

[Slainte]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I have spoken to a few attorneys about estate planning and trying to keep costs down such as legal fees; court fees; executor fees; trustee fees; etc. My primary assets are my house, my Fidelity accounts, my Vanguard accounts, and two small checking accounts. That is about 98% of my assets.

Some of them tell me that a living trust is the way to go; others say that probate is a way to go; and others say that I should set up a TOD or POD for the Fidelity, Vanguard, and checking accounts because this will bypass probate. I have been told that if you go through probate, the lawyers will take about 5% of your entire estate. Other people have told me that if you use a living trust, that the lawyers will still take a sizeable portion of your entire estate - but less than
I am more confused now than I was before I started talking to the lawyers. Can someone who has had the actual experience of going through probate or using a living trust or using TOD or POD describe how the process actually works? What were the general costs or fees involved? How long was the process? How difficult was it? Did you have to hire a lawyer? Were the attorney or trustee fees based on the entire value of the estate - or were you able to reduce the amount of the estate for attorney or trustee fees? Thanks.

Put POD (pay on death) on your bank accounts. The bank will have the forms. If a joint account and you both agree as to beneficiaries, fill out the bank form for that person/persons to be the owner of account after the death of you, or both if joint account. They can’t access the account at all until the last of joint owner dies, and all they have to do is provide a certified copy of the death certificate to the bank. Bank MUST give full ownership to whomever you designated. (If a POD designation is on the account, it should r show on the statements as such.)
Investments: check with your broker. Some allow beneficiaries to be listed & others require a Transfer on Death form to name beneficiary(ies).
House: Fl is using an enhanced Lady Bird Deed meaning the owner retains a life estate (can own/ live in house til death) and names whomever s/he is giving house to upon death. (Old-fashioned way to avoid Probate & Medicaid reimbursement; many states now use Transfer on Death forms which are easier to complete, file, and change later if desired).
Boats, cars, etc. Most state DMVs have forms ‘Affidavit of Heirships’ where you can attach death certificate & show you are the legal heir to decedent.
Most states (? Fl) also allow Affidavits of Heirship for full Estates (frequently the house) as an expedited transfer of assets (needs heir’s affidavit of facts as rightful heir and has 2 other Affidavits from persons who knew decedent & family line well, & attest to heir’s facts. Not sure if Fl using such & most states have a Court ordered ‘Small Estate Probate’ process for under a certain amt of money.
However you do it, check all states you lived in for unclaimed property. In most states you have to open Probate to reach decedent’s unclaimed property.
I so, just a few forms & almost all can rewrite a deed. No Probate needed.
More importantly, I’d advise y’all to see a local Estate Atty to do a Financial Power of Attorney (naming who you want to make financial decisions while alive but incapacitated) with alternative agent.
Also a Medical Power of Attorney naming agent & alternative agent.
Hopefully, nothing needed for a long time, but comforting to know they are there if needed.

[Rainger99]

All of the replies have been very helpful. There are some very knowledgeable people on this website!

Thanks.

[Slainte]

Originally Posted by JohnN

My situation is similar. We own our home, local checking savings, and Fidelity accounts (Roth IRA, etc).

I bought Quicken Willmaker, approx $200. Easy enough.
Our kids inherit everything 50-50 when the 2nd of us passes on.
We had it witnessed and notarized at the local bank and gave a
copy to all parties named in the will. We also filed a Ladybird deed at the Sumter County courthouse in Bushnell.Did the medical directive too, included in the package.

Some people may get quesy with doing that, but I was pretty comfortable and confident, so I'm pleased with the result.

Very Smart - kudos. But do get a Financial Power of Attorney with alternative agent stated and a Medical Power of Attorney also, and however you feel about Do Not Resuscitate form and a HIPPA Release to allow visitation after hours in hospital (but be aware they’d have the right to access your medical info, though they rarely know that.)

[Slainte]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I have spoken to a few attorneys about estate planning and trying to keep costs down such as legal fees; court fees; executor fees; trustee fees; etc. My primary assets are my house, my Fidelity accounts, my Vanguard accounts, and two small checking accounts. That is about 98% of my assets.

Some of them tell me that a living trust is the way to go; others say that probate is a way to go; and others say that I should set up a TOD or POD for the Fidelity, Vanguard, and checking accounts because this will bypass probate. I have been told that if you go through probate, the lawyers will take about 5% of your entire estate. Other people have told me that if you use a living trust, that the lawyers will still take a sizeable portion of your entire estate - but less than 5%

I am more confused now than I was before I started talking to the lawyers. Can someone who has had the actual experience of going through probate or using a living trust or using TOD or POD describe how the process actually works? What were the general costs or fees involved? How long was the process? How difficult was it? Did you have to hire a lawyer? Were the attorney or trustee fees based on the entire value of the estate - or were you able to reduce the amount of the estate for attorney or trustee fees? Thanks.

Trusts can often wind up in Court as many trustees don’t know how to decant the trust. Also, Trustees often don’t do annual reports as required and may distribute incorrectly. Any minors damaged can sue when they reach the age of majority & inheritance is depleted. There’s risk being a Trustee. Some attorneys add to the Trust document a requirement that another person be appointed in a ‘verifying transactions’ role. Each recipient is also due a copy of the yearly report/audit of the Trust.
Also, Check unclaimed property in all states decedent lived in or could have funds due. Some states want proof of Probate filed to release unclaimed funds.

[Slainte]

Originally Posted by JohnN

My situation is similar. We own our home, local checking savings, and Fidelity accounts (Roth IRA, etc).

I bought Quicken Willmaker, approx $200. Easy enough.
Our kids inherit everything 50-50 when the 2nd of us passes on.
We had it witnessed and notarized at the local bank and gave a
copy to all parties named in the will. We also filed a Ladybird deed at the Sumter County courthouse in Bushnell.Did the medical directive too, included in the package.

Some people may get quesy with doing that, but I was pretty comfortable and confident, so I'm pleased with the result.

Also put POA on your bank accounts so when the last of you/wife die, your beneficiary(ies) only have to bring the certified copy of death certificate to the bank for the account to be turned over to them. Also a Power of Attorney Financial with agent & alternative agent listed. See a local attorney to do that simple but powerful form.

[Slainte]

Originally Posted by asianthree

My guess is musk already has each offspring paired or in contract with offspring of intelligent wealthy parents.
To ensure each of his offspring, in turn provides continuation of wealth and intelligence.
Centuries of Nobility had the same marriage characteristics, to keep family ties close, to acquire land, wealth, with intelligence, of brute force and plundering. End goal To secure bloodlines.

Cannon, May just wing it.

Ah, yes. But my peasant ancestors had pitchforks.