[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The average parent did NOT decide that the US should outsource all its industry to China beginning in 1980. The upper 1% decided that and US society, industry, and schools suffered. Parents probably spend MORE TIME with their children today than in 1960. Because they can't go out and play a game of stickball or any game outside without getting shot. But the NRA........................

I think this is out of touch with reality and a lot of anti-NRA propoganda.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Many feel that European schools are better and UNIONS are not "bogey mans" in Germany. They are respected as they ONCE were (when America was really America) ( prior to 1970).

Unions were important at one time but the Union heads ruined it for everyone but they did live a fine life while it lasted.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Or another way to look at it.

You can decide what your child can or cannot read but…..you cannot decide for my child.

Or another way to look at it: you cannot provide provocative material to your child in a public situation which exposes everyone else's child to the said material. You are welcome to expose your child to it at home, on your computer or at the public library, If you feel your child needs to be fed said material prior to the age of 18, go crazy... you won't be stopped.

Now wasn't that simple?

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by justjim

OP, I don’t put the blame on public schools for students failing to make the “grade” so to speak. I don’t blame the teachers either. In short, PARENTS is where I put 90% of the blame. Parents is where it starts and where it ends.

I'd go further than that and put a large chunk of the blame on human nature. Learning stuff requires some self discipline. Education is primarily something that you do to yourself, not something that is done "to" you. To avoid being able to read or do math at the fourth grade level, for most, would require some serious resistance, regardless of the source of the "teaching". I knew plenty of kids growing up whose parents did all they could to get performance out of them, but with minimal success. Looked a lot like genes to me. Motivating humans to do other than what they want is tough stuff.

I'm thinking that a lot of tax money and teacher headaches could be saved if public schooling would be offered through third or fourth grade - long enough to learn to read - and then supply all the kiddies with free laptops and internet access to Khan Academy and such.

Guess other arrangements for "child care" might be required. Those demonstrating self motivation (maybe with a parental nudge?) could be helped along as needed, but those kids that just wanted to copy your homework (we all remember those) could find other uses for their time - rather than disrupting the efforts of those who have found motivation, whatever its source. (Not wanting to stay poor worked for me). Have spoken with several teachers who were pulling their hair out over their administrators failing to allow *any* classroom discipline. Babysitting ought to be on those that chose to bring them into the world - with no plan beyond that bringage. Actions (should) have consequences.

A very small percentage of what I've learned came from formal schooling. Most of "school" felt a lot like being in prison (watching that clock) at worst, or being babysat at best. Reading at a fourth grade level is a pretty low bar. Not pulling that off says a lot about the "student", to me. Mass, expensive babysitting can't be doing much for society. Guess such a change couldn't get done over night, but leaning that way in the thinking is what would seem to make some sense to me.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

This is the way things ought to be with just a few exceptions related to a well-rounded education.

Please! No exceptions, teachers will expose children to whatever the teachers want promoted and how they want your children to think.

Kids go to college these days to be indoctrinated, instructors don't want to stop there. If you don't follow the public colleges dogma, you are outcast and life will be very difficult. To have to shut your mouth, keep your thoughts to yourself and run with your diploma to get away from it. This is from the mouths of recent college students, it's pervasive now.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Or another way to look at it: you cannot provide provocative material to your child in a public situation which exposes everyone else's child to the said material. You are welcome to expose your child to it at home, on your computer or at the public library, If you feel your child needs to be fed said material prior to the age of 18, go crazy... you won't be stopped.

Now wasn't that simple?

No, not simple at all. Well, perhaps it is easy to remove/censor any book that someone, anyone objects to - the lowest-common-denominator method.

I don't want anyone else parenting my child - that's my job.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by opinionist

Why do certified teachers and tenured professors teach kids that they can choose their gender? Because they can, and no one stops it.


Why are they not fired for complete and total incompetence? Unions


Our institutions have become totally corrupted to where home schooling is the only rational option.

There a a few charter and private schools that are probably okay, but mostly true. Public schools are abject failures.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by MandoMan

I taught College English for about forty years. In most cases, the students who started class reading well were the ones whose parents helped them develop a habit of reading. Every time I surveyed the students, I discovered that about 10% of my college freshmen had never read an entire book outside of class assignments. Those were the students most likely to drop out. But I discovered that if I assigned exciting books, I could get them hooked on reading. So I gave up teaching Medieval Literature and started teaching Detective Fiction and The Thriller and Post-Apocalyptic Fiction and things like that to freshmen who needed a literature credit. It worked. But how much better for them if their parents had guided them.

Man, I wish I'd had you as a teacher in HS and College. Most of the "classics" were so tedious and boring. I had an English teacher in 9th grade that had the class read Lord of the Rings and that was the best English class ever.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I think this is out of touch with reality and a lot of anti-NRA propoganda.

Agree with you 100%

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Teaching is a LOW paying occupation.

I just don't get this logic. Teachers only work 9 months, not 12 like everyone else.

It also depends on the area. As someone else noted, there are teachers making well into the 6 figures, and don't forget about their taxpayer supported pensions.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The 3 R's are old school thinking.

I vehemently disagree. The 3 R's are essential. Maybe if more attention was paid to this instead of "new school thinking", these kids would be better prepared for life.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

That is a case of adapting the school to the NEEDS of the student. Unfortunately, in high school and below the needs of the student MUST conform to the needs (for low cost and low property taxes) of the school board.

One should involve themselves in schools and operation of them before blanket statements are made. School board members are some of the most underappreciated public servants out there and many go without pay for their services. Referendums after referendums are happening in many districts at this time just for operational expenses and the public won't pass the requests.

Everyone has their hand out for more money from the tax districts, to the power companies and every other service. People are tapped from subsidizing everything and everyone but their own local interests. Referendums are not inexpensive to run and that adds to the issue. The funniest thing I've ever seen is someone elected to the public school board who's children never set foot in a public school. He was the exception to the average school board member because he didn't want to spend a nickel.

Serve on a school board for a couple of terms and get back to us on how much fun it isn't.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Less than 1/3 of one per cent of children change their sex. The whole idea is over-magnified by certain sites.

Doesn't seem like much...until you realize that until a few years ago, it was orders of magnitude less.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Because they can't go out and play a game of stickball or any game outside without getting shot. But the NRA........................

Guns? No, I'm sure Climate Change is the real culprit.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

The AVERAGE Chicago teacher makes about 145K according to the Illinois Policy Institute, it has been a long time , but when my kids were in school the private schools paid the teachers considerably less than what was current for public school teachers

And it's going to be more. The Chicago Teacher's Union basically runs the city now. They also care more about social justice than teaching.