[BarryRX]

A college education in Germany is now free, while in this country the education of our citizens has become a business that leaves many graduates saddled with huge student loans while many others cannot afford an education. Which country will have the better educated work force in the future?

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Nothing is FREE... there are scholarships for those who earn them!

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

A college education in Germany is now free, while in this country the education of our citizens has become a business that leaves many graduates saddled with huge student loans while many others cannot afford an education. Which country will have the better educated work force in the future?

Hopefully, there is a minimum grade requirement. "Real" students do not need to be immersed in an environment that nurtures parasitic "lifetime" students.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by TNLAKEPANDA

Nothing is FREE... there are scholarships for those who earn them!

That is true. Our grandkids had them, but they don't include room and board and a lot of other expensive and needed things.

I don't like to watch Judge Judy and see some losers living off college funding, buying cars etc.

I don't like that the Boston Bomber had federal money for education and didn't even go to school.

In Germany and Austria qualified students only are given free tuition. BUT they must maintain decent grades to remain in school. I think it would be cheaper for the U.S. government to do it that way then to just throw sand down a rat hole never seeing the money repaid for too many student loans.

People who are smart enough to get through college are NO better in my view than people who are not, but college is not a right, it is a privilege and vocational training should be offered with the same stipulation to people who cannot pass the entry exam for college.

But then many would say that would eliminate scholarships based on football.

I won't go down fighting on this one, but it has eased through my mind a time or two. Tell me how I'm wrong but you won't convince me by saying it would keep out people who aren't smart enough to go .

We all can't be rocket scientists OR excellent athlete's. It is an accident of birth and we can't equalize that. It is what it is.

College will not make you smarter, it will imcrease your knowledge. We have to figure out how to make all of our country's kids employable.

[MikeV]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

A college education in Germany is now free, while in this country the education of our citizens has become a business that leaves many graduates saddled with huge student loans while many others cannot afford an education. Which country will have the better educated work force in the future?

Well how nice for German citizens who have to foot that bill.

[memason]

I worked at one of our German subsidiaries for a couple years and they had the highest educated workforce I have ever encountered. Even our shop workers were graduates of either a university or a trade school. The German workmanship and attention to detail was amazing.

The German tax system is rather high and pays for the educational system, as well as the universal healthcare system.

If you talk to most Europeans, they cannot understand how the richest country in the world, the US, doesn't have similar programs for its citizens.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by MikeV

Well how nice for German citizens who have to foot that bill.

Mike. I think if you weighed the cost of unpaid student loans and using student funding for other purposes it would be ...cheaper?

We need to do something about student loan programs here and the big business(Acadamia) that lives off of it and takes advantage of it and uses it unscrupulously..

[MikeV]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Mike. I think if you weighed the cost of unpaid student loans and using student funding for other purposes it would be ...cheaper?

We need to do something about student loan programs here and the big business that lives off of it and takes advantage of it and uses it unscrupulously..

Unfortunately either way the taxpayer foots the bill. If a government backed student loan is defaulted the taxpayer foots the bill. If college was free even for people with good grades the taxpayer foots the bill. I guess I would not be so cynical if there was not so much fraud and waste in many government programs. I am very worried about the future of our country both financially and physically. I am actually glad to be old enough where perhaps I will not live to see its destruction from within or from outside.

Rant concluded….

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

We already have too many kids in colleges today that shouldn't be there. Not everyone is college material but our society has convinced people that they are bad parents if their kids don't go to college.

Colleges have been lowering requirements for decades in order to get more business. I taught a class at a college for fifteen years and I would say that 25%-30% of my students shouldn't have been allowed to graduate high school let alone be in college.

We have lowered standards so much now that a bachelors's degree is basically what a high school diploma once was.

If we allowed the government to pay for all tuition, there's be even more of these kids who should be out learning a trade struggling through college where they are certain to fail.

[BarryRX]

Germany's system doesn't allow anyone to go to college tuition free. It does allow those that show through examination that they are qualified to attend tuition free. This is the polar opposite of what our education system has become. We have all sorts of colleges, community colleges, vocational schools, and on-line colleges that will take you as long as you pay the tuition. This has resulted in a generation of Americans who are saddled with much more debt than we ever had, who cannot get jobs in their fields of study. This hurts our economy in many ways. One obvious way it hurts is our housing market. Young people who are paying off large student loans cannot qualify for home loans. In order to make more and more money, colleges (except for the elite schools) have lowered requirements. Why not take someone's tuition money for freshman year even if they are not qualified and have them flunk out. The student loan business is particularly profitable, because it cannot ever be discharged even by bankruptcy. So it has become a form of predatory lending just like home mortgage loans before the crash. Many of the vocational schools you see advertised on television exist just to issue student loans. In many of them, less than ten percent of grads get jobs in that field. I don't have a solution, but clearly something has to change.

[billethkid]

Having been responsible for several foreign business establishments in Europe (and elsewhere) I can tell you that nothing is free. For example when looking to hire a general manager unlike here in the USA the most important enticement IS NOT the salary.....but other perks that are not taxable. In Belgium for example, long time providers of "free" education, the tax rate exceeded 60%. So an incoming executive would expect that a position would be comped upwards sufficient to provide the disposable income needed. Or a luxury car (almost always top of the list) with fuel and servicing included. Or a country club/dinner club or some other such amenity, fully paid. Or all expense travel for the family, and on and on. Merely to create an overall compensation package non taxable and acceptable to the person.

Ther is indeed no free lunch!!!!!

[sunnyatlast]

We heard from several German foreign exchange students living in our former neighborhood that they don't have much of a choice about whether they could attend college or not, and then from there, it wasn't fully their choice as to what they could major in, and what type of college/university and degree they could pursue (technical, baccalaureate, etc.) And a couple of these young men were disenchanted with that aspect of their German education. Maybe some of that restriction has changed….I don't know.

I think this statement by the o.p. is food for thought: "Why not take someone's tuition money for freshman year even if they are not qualified and have them flunk out." Well, I saw while pursuing a second degree in my thirties that many SHOULD flunk out because of their failing performance at a grade-school level in college, but faculty and administration don't have the heart or guts to flunk them because often, they are racial/ethnic minorities.

How about this idea: Provide ONE year of tuition, fees and books to everyone who wants to attend the college of their choice, and if they flunk out, they get no more government money. If they perform well and go on, grant them a good portion of tuition, books and fees….and if they're motivated, they will work and take out loans to pay their way with the rest of the costs like room and board, clothing, spending money, etc. ("The rest is up to YOU.")

We've seen that very thing play out when students attending private universities get automatic merit scholarships upon entrance, which basically bring all the costs down to state-university level. Many did flunk out in the first year and thus, they had to leave the college life they loved but could no longer afford when their grades fell below the GPA required to keep the scholarship going. Wanting to stay there motivates many to work and borrow a portion to be able to stay and continue.

[Quietman]

Looking at it from another perspective - college tuition has been increasing very rapidly over the last few decades. I think too rapidly. No one seems to mind that. Do Germany and other countries control costs somehow?

[Sandtrap328]

I just read a book called "Thrive". It is by Dan Buettner. It was about some countries that are considered the "happiest" countries. One of these was Denmark. Even though there is a 60 percent income tax, it is a very happy country and people get free education, free healthcare, a living wage, and a safety net in case they are in a failed business.

A very happy city in the USA was San Luis Obisbo. Reading how their city was set up looked a whole lot like The Villages.

All in all, a very good book and the free education was a contributor to the happiness of the country. I am all for it even though it would increase all of our taxes somewhat.

[BarryRX]

Originally Posted by MikeV

Well how nice for German citizens who have to foot that bill.

Mike, you are already footing the bill. UK students often compare their plight to their American counterparts, but most Americans would be fortunate to pay as little as the British do: a maximum of $14,550 per year. High tuition fees in the U.S. have caused student loan debt, which stands at $1.2 trillion, to spiral out of control. It is now the second-highest form of consumer debt in the country. According to the Institute for College Access and Success, two thirds of American college students will leave their alma mater in significant debt (averaging at $26,600).
While there are many government measures that could ease the massive burden of student debt, some straightforward steps could make higher education accessible to all. Tennessee, for example, recently voted to make two-year colleges free for all high school graduates. The U.S. as whole could take a note from Germany and make public universities free with relative ease. The government spends around $69 billion subsidizing college education and another $107.4 billion on student loans. Tuition at all public universities comes to much less than that, around $62.6 billion in 2012. By restructuring the education budget, the cost of attending public universities could easily be brought down to zero. This would also put pressure on private universities to lower their cost in order to be more competitive.
At least for now, however, learning German might be the best financial choice an American high school student can make.