Can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em. Why should the tax payers of the USA be responsible for the children of other countries? Hello!

I think all of you who support the illegal immigration of anyone not just children should open your wallet and pay your fare share of the cost. The $3.7 Billion requested is about $12000 per person in the US. When you consider that 50% of Americans don't pay any federal income tax then it is $24000 per tax payer. So all you that support "the children" pay up. Oh, and that is just for now you will be paying every month for their upkeep.

I realize that all the money that goes into the federal government is not from income taxes alone so don't jump on my math it was for illustration only.

You bring the P word into this conversation and since that is not something that is allowed on here, I will carefully say that I do not believe in blind loyalty to any organization, and that I also believe in the rule of LAW.

I might suggest that you read the Washington Post and Washington Times yesterday and today to get more insight into how long this problem has been at the level you mention and the attitude expressed by them toward it(a local problem is one response).

This is OUR border, and OUR laws in play. While you personally do not feel threatened, many many of your fellow Americans have felt threatened for a few years now, and have felt ignored.

I, also, am not personally threatened but am not also personally threatened by what is happening in Ukraine or Israel or Syria, but I still care....I still keep informed...I still have an opinion. Heck, I was not personally threatened when 9/11 took place as I was here in Florida.

ALL of those examples are simple words to make my point.....each and every one of them threaten me in some way.

Again, p......s aside, can we agree that our laws should be enforced ?

I agree. Thanks for posting.

Agree
 

I agree with this too, in fact far more do than will admit publicly.

The Mexican immigrants entering the usa are only going back to the land that the US took away from them --- it was their land - how about the land the American Indians owned - that we decided we wanted and took. Now we can tell rest of the world who owns what and who does not - and who should govern the land they live in - pass the tea or kool-aid

Then of course, there was the "recent unpleasantness" that tore up the North and South.

That was then, and this is now. THIS is OUR piece of history.

We even change in our own life times. Once when I was very young, before I worked hard and saved, and did without to get our first house, I used to think that we could help all of society's ills. We who were whole were responsible for all. I believed that people would be better for my efforts to help them.

And then I grew older and found that many aren't better for having things given to them. And many lie to get free things, and many feel entitled to live off the rest who work.

I still care, and I still want to help, but I am often skeptical. I guess that is age, and possibly wisdom.

We would be far worse off without the attitude that so many share here in The Villages. We are the majority HERE, Thank God, and it feels good to be with so many sage people. But do NOT call us unfeeling.

Here is a picture of my immigrant grandparents, God Bless them.

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/d...93&MaxSide=160

all minority reports are duly noted!!

I am sure there are many who feel as you do - and it begs the question - how much more in taxes will you be comfortable spending on social welfare programs to support the new eligibles?

How much of the dollar do you think folks should be required to give to the government and then be allowed to keep for themselves? How will increased taxes impact the rising cost of living in the villages [read that as amenities fees and golf trail fees and food and entertainment] with a decreased disposable income?

And do they support without question implementing a program that gives equal benefits to America's needy, not so fortunate, legal residents?

Think the math is wrong

should be $ 12.00 and $24.00 based on your premise

The premise is also wrong. Out of 330,000,000 people only about 138,000,000 are considered to be taxpayers. The rest are children, disabled etc.

Out of those 138,000,000 only a little over half actually pay any income tax. The rest get all or most of what they pay in back in the form of a refund.

So we have about 70,000,000 footing the bill for the rest of us.

That is exactly right ...ie your concept, even if the math is arguable. Instead of having one's heart bleed from afar, and talk about voting/taxes yadda, step up and write a personal check if you truly think you have to solve the world's problems 24x7. Another way of showing you are serious is to invite some illegal alien kids over to stay with you. The people who advocate in effect open borders, never want to write the check or actually do anything ...it's always about good intentions and that's where it stops..

WOW!! This is the "blame America first , we are all rotten "philosophy that erupted in the 60s and has been with us ever since. You need to brush up on your history and the lessons it offers:

Three points.

1. The US Army took control and occupied of all of Mexico in 1848... when we retreated north of the Rio Grande, the side that has English law and free markets on their side prospered. The side that didn't wallowed in poverty and crime, and remains so screwed up to this day that half the people want to jump the river into our country because it offers more opportunity. Is this not obvious? Mexico would have been better off if we had kept the Army there and annexed the whole place instead of CA, AZ, NM and TX.

2. History has been ALL ABOUT the ethic of conquest since time began. The Greeks, the Romans, the Muslims, the Crusades, Attila and his Huns etc etc etc. The list is endless. In this instance, the Mexicans kicked the Spaniards out of Mexico, but they took it from the Indians. Then the Mexicans, after losing half to us, then screwed the remaining half of Mexico up, except for the food and Margaritas.

3. The true losers were indeed the Indians. These guys lost because they failed to enforce their borders and then let us (ie Europeans) in such that we took over. That's what's going to happen in reverse if we don't finally demand action. Maybe we should learn from their mistake? You may be so guilt ridden as to welcome losing your country, but most of us will fight to keep it.

It is very difficult to read here and realize that Villagers support with vigor the NON enforcement of USA law, the adding to welfare rolls that are already totally overloaded, the added tax expense involved and feel it is just fine and ok to grant amnesty to people who will, for the most part, further tax our system that is already overtaxed.

To do all this, with no comments about the LAW....just comments that...well do not make any common sense at all. It is just rhetoric.

Those who are FOR this not enforcing the law, granting amnesty with a wide sweep, adding to our already out of line costs, NEVER EVER discuss the actual facts of what is happening right now. They NEVER EVER discuss the impact on the poor Americans who live in these areas.

If you all think this checkbook has NO end in sight, you are sadly mistaken.....if you think that living here in The Villages, safe and secure and telling others to take care of it is the right thing to do....well, that is what makes this difficult. I can list other NATIONAL stories that elicited such posts and support on here....such support and "pity" from the seat of our government and they did not even come close to the impact on so many people as this. Why is that ?

None of you talk about the actual happenings....what is actually happening in your country to your fellow Americans. The preference seems to be.....try and make others feel guilty, which is really getting old....and to simply say....I support......no more.....just that.

No, let's not save it for another day... the free stuff is the essence of what this problem is all about and we all know that. While no doubt most illegals are fleeing rotten circumstances, please note they are not going to Nicaragua, even though this socialist country has nice beaches and retirement real estate. They are coming to the US because they know we are a soft touch for "kids" and they will get free stuff. Heck, thy get free airplane tickets too, three squares, medical treatment, ACLU lawyers, etc.

I would also ask that you not use sarcasm about how we all worked hard etc .. because in fact we did. I'm assuming you did too ?

These illegal immigrants are largely descendants of indigenous populations from areas further south in Mexico as well as other countries in Latin America. They are not the descendants of persons displaced from the southwestern USA.

Yes, payed for everything since I was 16 including rent, clothes, etc. So I understand the hard luck have not being born with with an endowed support system. Never inherited a dime and worked my way through college. With that, I do not believe everyone is trying to take advantage of me or the system or have the bitterness that I feel is sometimes manifested on this site.

Congratulations then on achieving the American Dream via the route of hard work. Sound like you were also the first in your family to earn a college degree. I was the first in mine as well.

However, I think you're indulging in something of a straw man with your last sentence. The people on this board who are upset about the lack of immigration law enforcement do not believe "...everyone" is trying to take advantage of them. However, it is perfectly obvious that the illegals are fleeing rotten hellhole countries and attempting to get "permisos" to live in the USA, and then get the free stuff that goes with it. Do you actually dispute that on a factual basis? If so, please come out and argue that point directly.

You may feel "bitterness" is manifested. Others would say we are fed up with being made to somehow feel guilty about living in America and being successful. We've reached our limit with this border fiasco. What you see as bitterness, I would term frustration or exasperation -- coupled with a demand for action that is increasing, and will not go away.

There is only one way to change the direction of this country, and that is with new leadership. To get that new leadership, one will need the support of Hispanics and all other minorities. It's just a matter of demographics.

It's sort of like a Catch 22 situation.

the recent and current influx and no enforcement of immigration rules is for sure future seeding.....eh?

No. The numbers were there in 2008 and 2012, long before the recent and current influx.

As expected we have the same folks now beginning the political slamming and thus sadly, another discussion will bite the dust.

This thread was NOT about politics. It was about a poster who felt the American dream of immigrating here was dead. It fostered, rightfully so, into a discussion of the current border problem.

Those who now talk of elections, voting blocs, etc are the ones that have NO...ZERO views on the subject at hand yet are now going to get into the name calling which they call discussion.

This will end this thread of course and sometimes I think these SAME folks have that as their intent.

But to close.....our borders are still welcoming in my opinion but with controls that we has the owner of those borders should set. We need to enforce current law on those borders (it still confuses me how ANYONE can be against enforcing our own laws). In my opinion, on this current situation, as opposed to the "big picture" immigration, we need to back track on the amnesty and "tweak" the 2008 law.

Once done then somebody somewhere has to lead the conversation for comprehensive immigration reform, BUT NOT UNTIL the current situation is under control. I have no way of knowing if this is what some want...ie, pressure on folks to go one way or another by allowing this current thing to apply pressure but I sure hope not.

To those who are on here speaking of conservatives, voting blocs, etc......THIS IS WHY NO SOLUTIONS CAN BE REACHED. Your interest is not in solving the problem....your interest is in being right in your mind and insuring whatever side you are on is the "winner". Good luck with that attitude

Noone on here can really solve anything but in this country there helps to have healthy debate on subjects. That is normally how folks get educated and informed. Voting blocs ? I was shocked that someone would bring that up.....if that is the intention of the amnesty, etc, I am sickened by it.

I empathize with your frustration at the lack of interest by many in enforcing the law. That would certainly solve most of the problem. I also note your comments about voting blocs, etc. Not appropriate or at least not helpful. And I agree, without genuinely secure borders, comprehensive reform is a complete non-starter.

Here's IMHO the gist of the immigration issue ... ie, my two cents:

1. Legal immigrants who can support themselves and help the country are most WELCOME!! (my dentist is Vietnamese, my doctor is from India ... the more the merrier)

2. Illegal aliens who come here with nothing to offer and need to be supported by the taxpayers are not welcome, especially if they sneak in over the border. Every country in the world as far as I know follows a policy similar to this ... because it's the only rational policy any country can follow and still remain a country.

:agree: 100%

Are you referencing the WILLIAM WILBERFORCE TRAFFICKING VICTIMS PROTECTION REAUTHORIZATION ACT OF 2008? The legislation that was intended to protect people from being exploited by human traffickers?

If so, I would like to know how this legislation was ever aborted to support the current influx of immigrants without papers.

Tweaking in my mind would simply be to obey it and provide protection for people in need of protection from smuggling traffickers...the purpose for which it was written!

[COLOR="rgb(0, 100, 0)"] I totally agree for the reasons you have given! How many people could we take into our home if people kept knocking on the door and wanted us to care for them? Please understand, I am a Christian and believe strongly in helping your neighbor… but also believe the best way to help them is to teach them to be responsible...

Thats the law I refer to.

Problem is that just about 100% of those crossing (and this does not apply to Mexicans..only certain central Americans).....anyway almost anyone from those countries can qualify...all they need to do is proclaim they are a victim and the process which takes time..begins.

I am not a lawyer, but this law is what has been abused ever since the amnesty was given. It was/is considered the loophole to get them in this country. They are then dispersed with an attempt to match with family and given a hearing date. I do not know how to "tweak" it.....under the circumstances maybe just repeal it.

So you have these poor central Americans who saw the amnesty as a signal (nobody has yet to tell them otherwise) and use this as a loophole to get in and begin the process because we are not enforcing the laws to deport properly.

But I have not heard that any one of them declared to be a victim of human trafficking! The key word 'abuse' is apparently being used by our government rather than those crossing the border!

A read through the law is fascinating and a great revelation as to how we have been DUPED!

Well, what I have read is that they are required to show up for a hearing and that only about 10% have actually shown up, so I suppose they are roaming the streets somewhere.

And few, if any, are refused at the border when they declare this law; Just told they have to show up for a hearing, which then they do not attend.

At the risk of being political which is not my intent, I will share a note from an article and if admin finds it political, please simply delete that portion. My intent is to simply share information on a very important issue.

So...here is the quote and the link which discusses the law...

"As I listened on CSPAN radio, an infuriating Mark H. Greenberg, acting assistant secretary at HHS, finally had to admit that it was a deliberate administration policy not to ask the immigration status of parents with whom they were placing illegal immigrant children. Are you kidding me? If the President was dead serious about stopping illegal immigration, and if all departments of government were, in turn, working in consort to solve this epidemic, immigration status would be the first thing that HHS checked. No wonder illegal immigrant children don't show up for deportation hearings. Their illegal immigrant parents and guardians don't want to be busted themselves!"

Dear President Obama: Secure The Border Now Or Risk Civil War*|*James Marshall Crotty

This from the Huffington Post also spends time in layman language discussing the law itself.

I am still infuriated about a discussion of voting blocs that someone brought up earlier. What kind of a nation are we that our security, the fiber of our country takes second or third place to voting blocs ? If this is involved in anyway....well...

"Well, what I have read is that they are required to show up for a hearing and that only about 10% have actually shown up, so I suppose they are roaming the streets somewhere."

Egads! Not the streets!


Time to close this thread. Nothing new is being said. No minds are being changed. 'Nuff said.

Well, minds are made up but time will tell how it all works out. This is one discussion that I hope I am not "right" because I see nothing good about what is happening.

How do we know that they aren't being sent here by the drug cartel to establish more home territory?

Are there enough territories to support thousands of new drug pushers? Maybe some of them will become terrorist so there won't be as competition for the terrorities?

Why so snarky, Tennisnut?

MS-13: Illegal Immigrants In Deadly Gang Slated For Release

So far I am aware of what you are against. But I have not heard any good answers for this problem. Unrealistic altruism is not helpful.

I am mightily afraid of terrorists from the extreme religious factions. I am overwhelmed by the harm that drugs have done to our society. I am not ashamed of saying that. We can't cure ALL of societies ills. No matter how much we would like to. Who wants an abandoned baby here crying for the familiar? I would do almost anything before I would do that to my child. ALMOST anything. My mother said, we will try to get that done when we can afford to. We cannot do everything. Moderation. That doesn't mean a moderation in compassion.

The people who so feared for the life of their children and sent them off alone--Irish famine, Jews in WWII, Cuban boat lift--are the bravest parents of all. I cannot imagine having to make that decision. The ones who did it hoping it would be a ticket for themselves into the country are beyond abusive.

Hubs and I were saying yesterday we should be thanking God every day for those born in America, Canada, or western Europe. There but for the grace of Giod...

Here is picture proof of what you say...however this Annie, the first immigrant at Ellis Island, mentioned in the article, traveled alone but had her parents waiting here for her.

Cyndy. I have never read anything from "Mother Jones" before. Is it a reliable source?

Child Migrants Have Been Coming to America Alone Since Ellis Island | Mother Jones

Gracie, I have never heard anyone say it isn't reliable, but they they have a liberal slant. They do freely acknowledge that they are liberal.

Child Migrants Have Been Coming to America Alone Since Ellis Island | Mother Jones[/QUOTE]

some how the intentions the above statement do not relate to what is going on here and now. Who knows what would have transpired at Ellis Island if all the rules of entry were set aside and advertised in their home lands to come on over and don't worry about the laws or a place to live or eat or be cared for.

The intentions of the past and since were not what the intentions of today's wide open Southern Border are attempting.

In my opinion.